Weaver Milwaukee Road Boxcar Paint Schemes

I am also interested in the time frames of those.

INFO HERE -

http://ribsidecars.com/

Perhaps a more knowledgeable Milwaukee geek than I will post time frames down to month/day/minute, but here ya go in same order as on the Weaver web page:

G25001: 1960's-end* (*end = when the MILW was absorbed by Soo Line in 1985)
G25002: 1960's-end
G25003: 1940's-50's
G25004: 1940's-50's
G25005: 1960's-end
G25006: 1960's-end
G25007: 1960's-end
G25008: 1960's-end
G25009: 1940's-50's
G25010: 1940's-50's

Billboard lettering, i.e. MILWAUKEE ROAD, was introduced in the 1960's. Cars were repainted when they came in for shopping so those earlier paint jobs could still be seen well into the 60's. I am not familiar with the yellow-trimmed cars or the use of SEL/DF2/LRD but I think all these paint jobs are legit with no fantasy stuff. The wording of the Hiawatha slogan on the last one seems a little off to me but that wouldn't be one of my first choices anyway.

The two cars with "The Milwaukee Road," no herald, and "Route of the Hiawathas" and "Route of the Electrified Olympian" were the as-built 1939 paint schemes. The yellow striped ones with SEL and DF markings for load-restraint equipment were converted and painted in the early 1960's. The scheme with the Milwaukee Road herald was used from the late 1950's onward. The last two paint schemes on Weaver's list, with the CMStP&P herald (one with and one without the Hiawatha logo) were in fact applied to a small number of 50' cars in the 1940's; no 40' cars are known to have been painted this way but Weaver decided to go ahead and use the scheme, presumably because it is attractive and likely to be popular. It is an authentic Milwaukee Road design, just not prototypical on the shorter cars (at least, no photos are known of a 40' car painted in either of these two schemes). I like the design and will be getting one of each.

There is a 75-page article on the ribside cars, with many photos, in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, volume 13. The article does not, however, contain photos of some of the later designs indicating load restraining equipment. Volume 2 of "Milwaukee Road Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment," a Morning Sun publication, also has a lot of ribside photos. Both books are available from Golden Spike Railroad Books in Tucson, Arizona. He's reliable and his prices are good.

This will be an expensive order for me, as I plan to get at least two numbers each of the two 1939 cars, plus one each of the two CMStP&P logo cars, plus a couple of yellow striped cars, plus two of the ones with the Milwaukee Road herald. That's ten cars; hopefully somebody will give me a good discount for quantity!

Jerry is correct about the slogan on the last car; I have a photo of the 50' prototype showing "Route of the Hiawathas." The catalog pictures are pre-production and may not even be photos of painted cars. I also noticed that several cars are shown with panel doors although the list says they have corrugated doors. The catalog pictures of the B&O wagontops had some similar glitches; hopefully everything will be fixed before the cars get into production. I'll e-mail Joe Hayter over the weekend to let him know about the slogan - I know for a fact that he listens to that kind of feedback.

My one regret is that they didn't do the plug-door insulated version, of which exactly one was made by the railroad. Maybe I'll kitbash one - it shouldn't be all that hard. The prototype was painted orange.

I'm really glad that Weaver has finally decided to go ahead with these cars, and even happier that they decided to make them in Northumberland, Pennsylvania, USA! I intend to show my approval by buying a whole bunch of them and I hope lots of other folks will do the same. Who knows, maybe toy train production will come home, at least some of it.

Good question Bob. I was going to post the same. I have no knowledge regarding these cars, but will pick up a couple to add to the fleet. The PRR H30's are a different story. That will be a large and costly order for me!

Southwest Hi, thanks for pickin' up my slack. I thought I did pretty well for right off the top of my head. I'll definitely be getting 2-3 of these cars.

Was 1985 the last year that the MILW ribbed Box Cars would be operating on the Soo Line?

Andrew

Falcon Service

quote:

Originally posted by falconservice:
Was 1985 the last year that the MILW ribbed Box Cars would be operating on the Soo Line?
Andrew
Falcon Service

Oh heck no, 1985 was just the last year the Milwaukee existed as a corporate entity. The rib-side cars continued to roll on the SOO and elsewhere around the country for as long as they were structurally sound and fit for revenue service. They may or may not have received SOO reporting marks and numbers, probably not in most cases. Sorry if my original post gave the impression they were pulled from service in '85.

The Weaver website lists the MR rib-side boxcars for $72.95.That is great news for me,the last I read about the boxcars is that they were going be made of brass and cost around $300.00.Now I can afford to buy a bunch of them to be pulled by Lionel's 261.
Dan

Then sometime I will have to find photos of them on websites as they appeared in the 1980s' or 1990's.

Andrew

I looked on the fallen flags rr website and it shows one of the ribbed boxcar being scrapped in 1981.

The Soo Line repainted and refurbished the MILW Auto Racks on Trailer Train Flat cars and MILW Auto Carriers in 1988. The CP Rail repainted and refurbished the MILW 86' Auto Parts Box Cars after the 1992 Soo/CP merger. As far as I have seen most other MILW freight cars were left in the original paint and reporting marks.

Andrew

Falcon Service

Thanks guys! Now I know for sure which ones to order.

quote:

Originally posted by Jerry Nolan:
Perhaps a more knowledgeable Milwaukee geek than I will post time frames down to month/day/minute, but here ya go in same order as on the Weaver web page:
From the Weaver Website, recent postings of art work. Milwaukee Rib side.
G25001: 1960's-end* (*end = when the MILW was absorbed by Soo Line in 1985)

G25002: 1960's-end

G25003: 1940's-50's

G25004: 1940's-50's

G25005: 1960's-end

G25006: 1960's-end

G25007: 1960's-end

G25008: 1960's-end

G25009: 1940's-50's

G25010: 1940's-50's


Billboard lettering, i.e. MILWAUKEE ROAD, was introduced in the 1960's. Cars were repainted when they came in for shopping so those earlier paint jobs could still be seen well into the 60's. I am not familiar with the yellow-trimmed cars or the use of SEL/DF2/LRD but I think all these paint jobs are legit with no fantasy stuff. The wording of the Hiawatha slogan on the last one seems a little off to me but that wouldn't be one of my first choices anyway.

Thanks Jerry

Thanks for the heads up on these cars. I just ordered two. Maybe more in the near future if they are still available and my train budget allows.

Cheers to Weaver for bringing these, the B&O wagontops and the H30s to us. I remember quite a few folks lobbying Atlas O to do a rib side boxcar and their attitude (which I felt was reasonable at the time) was that a single roadname car wouldn't sell well enough to justify the tooling. Obviously Weaver's proven this theory wrong (in a crummy economy no less!)...and made in the USA!?!?!

Anyone with a passing interest should track down the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia volume with the article on these cars -- and if the folks at Weaver don't have it, I suggest they invest the $25 or so bucks on one...

I'm in for the simple "The Milwaukee Road" "Route of the Electrified Olympian" without logos...the "Olympian" labelled cars were rarer, but I like it so there!

Brian

David,

I need to get my kids to bed, but let me dig out my RRPC and I'll let ya know in a bit.

From what I understand, though, those schemes ONLY appeared on some 50' cars.

Brian

Dave, SEL stood for "Spartan Easy Load", LDR, was "Load Restraint Devices" These cars were equipped with steel belts on the interiors walls were a "DF" bar was placed to help secure the load from damage. These devices made the car easier to load and unload and enable the Milwaukee to be more competitive with trucking freight.


Milwrd

The Milwaukee Road did install SEL and DF equipment on 40' ribside boxcars, and they were painted in the yellow-stripe scheme. There are photos in the Morning Sun book on Milwaukee Road equipment. Atlas has made models of 50' PS-1 boxcars in the yellow-stripe paint scheme, and Weaver has previously done that paint job on 40' PS-1 cars (I don't know off the top of my head if the Milwaukee had 40' PS-1's or not, but I think so). MTH and Lionel have also painted scale-size 40' boxcars with the yellow stripe; I don't recall offhand if they were marked SEL or DF. Of course, all those cars had smooth sides.

quote:

Originally posted by Southwest Hiawatha:
The Milwaukee Road did install SEL and DF equipment on 40' ribside boxcars, and they were painted in the yellow-stripe scheme. There are photos in the Morning Sun book on Milwaukee Road equipment. Atlas has made models of 50' PS-1 boxcars in the yellow-stripe paint scheme, and Weaver has previously done that paint job on 40' PS-1 cars (I don't know off the top of my head if the Milwaukee had 40' PS-1's or not, but I think so). MTH and Lionel have also painted scale-size 40' boxcars with the yellow stripe; I don't recall offhand if they were marked SEL or DF. Of course, all those cars had smooth sides.

Okay, thanks for the verification. Totally botched that on my end. It's a sharp scheme but way after my time frame...

Brian

quote:

Anyone with a passing interest should track down the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia volume with the article on these cars -- and if the folks at Weaver don't have it, I suggest they invest the $25 or so bucks on one...

I'm pretty sure they have it. I e-mailed Joe Hayter with the same info I posted here, while Weaver was the design phase. I'm pretty sure they got the G25009 and G25010 schemes with the CMStPP logo out of that volume - there are not a lot of photos of those two cars around and they are documented in the RPC. The book is definitely a good investment for anyone interested in these cars - tons of photos and lots of information about how they were built and modified over the years. As a bonus, the same volume also has a big article on the Seaboard round-roof "turtleback" boxcars.

Can somebody tell me why the Weaver literature indicates there will be 2 types of doors on these cars, but all the pictures have the same door?

Thanks,

Fred

I'm guessing here, but my guess is that they photographed one painted, undecorated prototype and superimposed the graphics variations by computer. If you open several of the pictures in tabs in your browser and flip between them, it will look like a slide show with car staying the same and the graphics projected on the car as if it were a screen. If you remember the catalog page for the B&O wagontops, they also only showed one door type but the cars were actually made with two kinds of doors. I'll try to verify this with Weaver and post when/if I get it confirmed.

SW Hiawatha or anyone else who has the Morning Sun color guides:

I thought the RRPCYC said the lettering below the yellow bands was white -- is this accurate or are the Weaver cars correct in having yellow lettering below the band?

Thanks!

Brian

Brian, I looked over the pics in the Morning Sun book and the Weaver cars are correct. There may well be cars with white lettering, but my book doesn't show any. I think Weaver does a pretty good job when it comes to producing accurate models to the prototype.


Milwrd

Any of these cars ever in head end passenger service?

Dominic

I believe the Milwaukee did build rib sided express box cars but they were of different dimensions than the Weaver car.

Thanks. I will wait for the correct car!

You might be waiting a while. It only took 70 years for these!

The purpose-built ribside express boxcars were single-door 50-footers with a lower roofline to match the passenger cars. Some standard height cars were also converted for express service. I'll check my literature to see if any 40-foot cars were ever converted, but I think the express cars were all 50 feet long. K-Line made a smooth-side boxcar painted to match Milwaukee Road passenger equipment, but as far as I know it is not prototypical in that configuration.

The best way to get a reasonably accurate express car would probably be to kitbash one of the 50' kit cars. A number of different ones were made in the 1950's. There are resin kits currently on the market, but unfortunately they do not include 50' single-door cars.

Weaver currently has a PS-1 40' plug door box car listed in addition to the rib side cars. It is available for purchase.

Western Junction Railroad Museum information

The Western Junction Railroad Museum in Sturtevant Wisconsin features a Milwaukee Road rib-sided boxcar that is filled with displays of models of Milwaukee Road trains in various scales,including O scale.My Dad and I visited the museum during a Freinds of the 261 fan trip a few years ago when the train stopped in Sturtevant WI to turn around and go back to Chicago.My Dad made a video of the museum,I will have to dig up the video and post it here soon.
Dan

A photo of the rib-sided MR boxcar right behind the steam engine.
Dan

Dan, I wish we had a Ribside boxcar in Sturtevant, The models in the Display case are from my personal collection that I put on display on special events only. all three boxcars are 1961 built Pullman Stadard, two are 50' cars and one is a 40' car. Illinois Railroad Museum has a 40 Rib boxcar

Mike Slater
President of the Western Union Junction RR Museum, Sturtevant WI

The orange plug door car with black lettering and logo shown in Mike CT's post above is semi-authentic. The paint job and numbering are correct on a plug door insulated boxcar. However, the prototype cars were not PS-1's but cars that had been converted from older ice-cooled reefers. The cars had their ice bunkers removed and their doors changed from regular swinging doors to plug doors. As far as I know, the Milwaukee did not own any 40' PS-1 cars with plug doors.

There are numerous similar examples of authentic Milwaukee paint schemes used on not-quite-correct cars. For instance, K-Lionel built a very nice Milwaukee Road bay window crew car painted boxcar red for work trains on its generic smooth-side caboose. The number and paint job were correct; however, the prototype was a ribside caboose.

As thrilled as I am to see these, the timing could not be worse!!! When are orders for these being taken? And when are they going to be shipped?

David

So where's everybody ordering these from? I just might have to go "offline" and buy something other than another Seaboard car!

I don't have a firm answer to these questions - but I expect the dealers are already taking orders, and given that they are being made in Pennsylvania, USA, not Guangdong, China, I expect the lead time will be a lot shorter than we have grown to expect from the major importers. I have not yet determined where I'm going to place my order, but I will be asking for a quantity discount as I expect to buy 10-12 of them!

Given the tooling cost for molds, I am pretty sure there will only be one style of car. I assume this will be the long rib version, since that is what is shown in the pictures. That is fine with me. Obviously, I'd love to have a choice of long or short rib cars, but I'm happy to have a ribside car at all. My preference is the long rib car, because that is the original version and I'm mainly a steam era guy.

Weaver's 008 is in the RPC, page 47, lower picture. According to the text, the 35200 series long rib cars were rebuilt, repainted, and renumbered in the early 1960's.

According to the Color Guide, 006 and 007 were done around 1964. See page 23. The car numbers on Weaver's pictures are the same as the numbers in the Color Guide photos.