Attention NYO&W FANS!!

Really interesting news - I hadn't heard that....

Hmmmm I am in for that

BTW look at this funny looking guy that pops up when you do a google search for NYO&W Mountaineer

I talked to Joe Hayter of Weaver at length about this engine on Friday. He definitely needs feedback to gauge the level of interest in this project! So if you are interested in having your own brass, scale, TMCC equipped Mountaineer, email him at weaver and tell him!

Also, if perchance you have access to any unpublished COLOR pictures of the Mountaineer, Joe would absolutely love to hear from you! He has located one source so far, but additional information will be very welcome indeed!

Chris
LVHR

Here's a pic from the O&W site:

Peter

Here is a more delicious version of the O&W.....I can't tell if it's an FT or F3......

Peter

Peter , THe funny thing is, I have a copy of that beautiful painting above my head as I type and read this. We have GOT! to get this made! 

Peter,

805 was an FT.

Chris

LVHR

FT or F3, it tasted good. I love detailed engines, I mean icing.....

Too bad, this lady moved out of central VA.

Peter

Does anyone make passenger cars for a "Mountaineer?"  If that is in the works, I am interested.  Might as well send an e-mail to Weaver anyway for the steamer. Here's a quick link if anyone is interested.

http://www.weavermodels.com/page61.html

MTH has made some nice passenger cars in both Railking and Premier. (They even made a fake mountineer in railking that looked so bad I couldn't bring myself to buy it! )

Thanks, Mikatt1!  I will look them up, and see how bad things can get.

Getting accurate Mountaineer cars is going to be a challange. I doubt that Weaver is going to make them. Off the top of my head, we might have a better chance with 3rd Rail. Remember, the O&W went cheap on this train: no AC! And they simply repainted old rolling stock that they already owned. Nothing new for this RR, it costs too much! Most of the passenger cars were wood with 4 wheel trucks, and b/c there was no AC, clearstories all the way down the roof on both sides. There were some steel cars with 6 wheel trucks, but again, no AC. 

Chris

LVHR

Tim,

      If you're going to hunt down either of the two Premier passenger or either of the two Rail King passenger sets, start now and good luck. It took me the better part of three years to put together one set of RK four cars and the two car add-on. MTH doesn't seem to make alot of the NYO&W items when they do make them. I passed on the MTH Premier Camelback a few years back and still regret it.

One of the benefits of preordering, which is how I got mine.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hupq4ak-_zs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Here is the TCA presentation of Weaver, where the Mountaineer was mentioned as a potential model, along with Steamtown's Boston & Maine 3713.  I hear what you guys are saying on the likelihood (not) of making passenger train-specific cars.  It does beg the question: why would Weaver keep making so many passenger locomotives if they aren't going to make cars to compliment them?  I don't expect an answer, BTW.

I did get this answer tonight from Weaver regarding the e-mail I sent on Tuesday.  

Dave,

That's a nice looking Mountaineer set! The actual thing looks better than the rendition in the catalog. I passed on it b/c of the catalog rendition. I'm still not so sure MTH got it right, but if it is wrong, it's not far off! BTW, the actual Mountaineer was only 1 combine, 4 coaches, and 2 observations. MTH added a baggage, diner, and maybe an RPO. IMHO, the longer train looks better, but that is not what it actually was.

Also, the engine was used to haul freight in the tourist off season, so running it with a freight train is perfectly acceptable. At the end, the O&W did not have very many of their own freight cars and had to rely on other roads to provide them. This was far less profitable for the road, but makes it easy for us to assemble a period freight.

Chris

LVHR

Atlas made some nice freight cars  including hopper and reefer cars. not to mention the Wadell hoppers that were painted in the NYO&W's Middletown N.Y. shops.

MTH has made some NYO&W cars, some of which you have to take with a "grain of salt", but I guess the're better than nothing. (except for the NYO&W modern covered hopper with the map with Cadosia N.Y. misspelled  "Cadosio" .

HEY GUYS,

Let's ALL get behind this project!  I genuinely want to see this happen.  I am throwing everything in to this, all that I have to make this model special.  I'd like it to be all that it can be and to happen with extremely good accuracy.  This includes the original blue prints as well as actual color matching to the original "Ontario Maroon" and Orange paint samples from my own personal collection (as found on the original "Mountaineer Limited" tailsign) as well as my original 1940 and '41 35mm Kodachromes of the engine and train.

Let no grass grow under one's own feet with this project, contact anyone and everyone you guys know who'd be interested!!  Let's all make this one HAPPEN!!!

Thanks,

Paul

Paul, This Saturday is the annual NYO&W HistoricalSociety's convention at the Orange County Community College in Middletown NY. I hope to see Al Seebach of the Old And Weary car shop (he is also the society's V.P.). I don't know if you have been in contact with Al, but if anyone can help you with this project it is he! I wish I had a good E-mail address or I would have been in contact with him already. I can't wait to see what happens with this project!

Mike, I apprised Al of this potential project some weeks ago.  --P.

Here's the O&W F3s in action.....

Peter

Has anyone heard any updates from Weaver lately? I'd love to hear an announcement at York!

Joe hasn't said anything to me as yet.

Who makes the NYO%W F3 diesels?

There a so many other still-absent brass steamers that would be preferable. So many.

This will save me money, though.

You mean preferable to you.  It would be polite if you phrased it in that manner.  Would you please name one of those "preferable locomotives" and let's see if there's a consensus? Thanks.

I'll try some:

Western Maryland 4-8-4.

Lehigh Valley 4-8-4

Rock Island 4-8-4 ( the RI had the LARGEST fleet of 4-8-4s in the U.S., and no models?)

NYC K-5 Pacific

NYC H10a/b 2-8-2

PRR K4sa #612

Super7,

It is interesting that you state the NYC steam locomotives have been done in brass, i.e. 2-Rail ONLY, but then complain that the "long wheel base 4-8-4s look like a bit of a joke on sharp curves found on the majority of three rail layouts".

So which do YOU model in; 2-Rail Scale or 3-Rail "toy" trains? 

For those of us with 072 or larger curves, we sure appreciate those Weaver, Sunset/3rd Rail, and MTH scale sized steam locomotive models of 4-8-4, 2-10-4, 4-10-2, and 4-12-2 wheel arrangements, not to mention the big articulated models! There MUST be a market for all those "long wheel based 4-8-4s" in 3-Rail, otherwise Lionel, MTH, Weaver, and Sunset/3rd Rail would NOT be offering & SELLING all of them.

The Bangor and Aroostook  bought 5 of the 400 class 4-8-2's in 1945.  So maybe some B&A fans would be interested in a engine minus the added skirting.  An engineer on the B&A told me years ago that they were not real impressed with these locomotives when they got them.  They were pretty much worn out and had not been as well maintained as the roads own 4-8-2's.  They were some of the first steamers scrapped when the diesels started to come on line

Anybody Know if the Old & Weary Car Shop (They specialized in the O&W) in Tappan NY is still open. Their web site has been down sense Hurricane Sandy.

 They were pretty much worn out and had not been as well maintained as the roads own 4-8-2's. 

I'm not at all surprised. The O&W was not nick named the "Old and Weary" for nothing. The railroad was always a marginal performer, which is to be expected given that it served no major cities on its route. It was primairily a bridge road with little major on line industry. Oh, you can count coal for a while, and milk, but not much else. With finances that bad, small wonder the 4-8-2s were in sad shape. They probably deferred maintanence just as long as possible and then a bit more.

Still, it is a neat, quaint, rustic road to follow and learn about.

Chris

LVHR

Richard,

I'm told the answer is "yes". They switched away from their website to Facebook. Last I heard, they were considering reviving the website, but that info is strictly "whisper-down-the-valley".

I was unaware there was a rule or dictum that I had to chose two or three rail in 0, sorry.  You did say " Brass 0 Scale" so naturally I thought that was what you were looking for, not die cast.  If you were a three railer, I assumed you had the capacity or knew someone who could do the relatively simple conversion from two to three rail. 

I do find it interesting that you know those companies sales numbers, lol!  I don't, and to be honest I am "somewhat in"  this industry.

As for myself, I still have some 3 rail kicking about.  But quite a bit of H0, N, Gauge 1 (electric and live steam,) and a 7-1/2" gauge, coal fired NYC J3a Hudson.  Just last week I ordered the new Marklin Z Gauge DB BR 01 Pacific (#88010.) It will be my first piece of equipment in the 40 years of been aware of the scale.  That item will revolutionize the scale as it is truly superb.  I also collect full sized semaphore signals, wig wags and lanterns.   If you love railroad stuff, I see no reason for it to be an "Us Against Them."

So please do realize, there's no adversarial intent here.  I would only like to see that particular locomotive done in that format and size as at this time, that is it's primary market, the Greater Tri-State N.Y.C. area, still a bastion of "0" three rail. 

Do you have any photos of your 0-72 layout with 4-8-4's running?  I'd like to see that. In H0, that works out to a somewhat tight 36" radius which is less than many well regarded H0 club layouts use for that very reason. For example, the tightest radius on the La Mesa Model Railroad Club's "Tehachapi Pass" exhibit in Balboa Park, in San Diego is 48" or "0-96" located at "Caliente" (Hot.)  And that is the minimum radius on the 8,400 square foot railroad.

Thank you.

Paul

No Chris, the O&W was not always a marginal performer.

The O&W paid a dividend until 1937 when the coal mines were played out.  Then, the Lower New York State resort region (I grew up there) source of the O&W's passenger traffic died immediately following WWII.  See "The New York Ontario & Western in Color," Morning Sun books.  

The NYO&W Railway's management secured their first FT's in May 1945, during the war, so the steam which was already worn out from WW II's traffic demands was permitted to deteriorate, their usefulness was already expended.  The continual maintenance being the most costly aspect of a steam locomotive's operation. 

Incidentally, the O&W Y Class or "Light" 4-8-2's which the 405 Mountaineer engine was a member,  had five of sent to the Savannah and Atlanta. One was almost saved but in 1951-'52 it rolled over due to bad track and was scrapped on the spot.  The 406's tender however survives to this day and is presently coupled to S&A Pacific #750.

It was five of the O&W's Y-2 class "Heavy" Mountain types (which were identical to the New York Central's 1927 Paul Keifer designed L2c's) that went to the B&M. They are in no way related to the Burton Flory 1922 designed Light Mountain types.

Last time I was at Sayer, Pa., (about 20 years ago)  I didn't happen to see a single L.V. diesel either, so there lol!  Paul

Make that Bangor & Aroostook, not B&M.  P.

I'm well aware they paid a dividend until the coal ended. However, they could have (might have?)lasted quite a bit longer had they put their rails into major cities instead of bypassing most of them. More than a little shortsighted on management's part.  And after that, there is no way they could survive on the tourist travel trade to the Catskills.

Chris

LVHR

The information I have list the O&W locos bought by the B&A as numbers, 452, 454, 455, 459, and 460.  They were built in 1929, had 69 inch drivers and weighed 359,000 lbs.  I don't know if that makes them a heavy mountain or not.  Any way, it doesn't sound like the same engine as the one being discussed.  Too bad, it would have been nice to cover 2 railroads with 1 locomotive. 

By the way the Bangor and Aroostook has always been referred to as the B&A up here in Maine.

Putting their rails into major cities is straight politics.  That takes graft money, this was at the time of Taminy Hall after all.  In 1937, Court appointed Trustee Fred  Lyford saw the only path was as a bridge route.  But The O&W was just the canary in the coal mine.  Come on, all the northeastern roads failed, including the Pennsy  and the Central. 

Also, don't forget  that pesky NY State Legislature wanted the right of Way for a four lane Route 17 (now I -86) and got it!  I clearly remember seeing the R-O-W intact in 1963 at Cadosia and East Branch, N.Y.  but by the next summer I watched as it was being paved over.