What was the distinctive characteristic of the late 60's early 70's bar end trucks?
The only time at the end that the Lionel corp used Bar end was on the last 3 6464 boxcars I think and this was from old parts bins. I have noticed that these plus some of the ones MPC used all had a sulpher like residue on them. See my pics of the Timken...plus look at later Mt Clemens made milk cars. Outside of that, I can't think of anything that used bar end trucks after 1970 except Milk Cars and the special ones mentioned above. (Not counting the new China Made era of course---2 types of Bar end trucks there too just to keep things interesting)
Perhaps the sulphur looking residue was mold release used in later years as the tooling had become worn??
Interesting info on the 2357 Caboose. So this tool you found was perhaps used on the 2005 Virginian FM set...and Lionel's new JC Yardboss set??? It looks full featured. What was the 1984 remade SP caboose...not sure about that one?
Originally Posted by PaperTRW:
Originally Posted by Mike W.:
The early MPC rolling stock had AAR trucks...were these from the left over parts bin at Hillside? And the last 6464 Boxcars from Lionel Corp in 1969 had Bar-End trucks...were these also from the parts bin? And where were these 6464 cars assembled?
The only MPC piece where I've reliably found leftover "parts bin" AAR trucks is on the early 6-9160 Illinois Central Illuminated Porthole Caboose from 1970. It's possible a few postwar AAR trucks could have made their way onto other pieces, but I've never been able to document any. MPC made significant changes to the AAR truck (plastic uncoupling armature, Fast-Angle wheels with live axles) very early on, so I doubt the the leftover stock was more than a few thousand pieces.
"Bar-end" die-cast trucks also surfaced in the early 1970's, and these could have been left-overs as they saw limited use -- the 1970-1972 TCA Convention Cars, some 1971 Glen Uhl Timken cars and some 9250 Waterpoxy Tank Cars. What's particularly curious is that the last car to use them, the 1972 TCA 6315 Pittsburgh Tank Car, sometimes has trucks assembled with a plastic 9050-56 knuckle riveted into place, which tells me that the supply of metal knuckles was less than the number of die-cast truck sides available. Many of the older Greenberg books state that some regular production 9200-series boxcars came with bar-end trucks, but I simply don't believe it. Even then, MPC charged a premium for the die-cast truck (Glen Uhl paid more for the cars with metal trucks than he did the ones with plastic) so they weren't likely to include them on random cars. Lastly, the late bar-end truck (from the mid-1960's through 1972) has a distinct identifying characteristic that I don't believe has been documented in the hobby guides. And while all the MPC-era cars that should have the die-cast trucks have that characteristic, the other supposedly-special cars with die-cast trucks do not, indicating that their trucks or chassis were swapped out sometime over the years.
Originally Posted by Mike W.:
What research materials on this era of Lionel would you recommend?
As I mentioned early in this thread, TM's 1970-1980 Guide is a must for covering the early MPC history. Not everything contained in there is correct, but it's the closest we'll likely get to documenting the time period, from many of the key people who lived it. Unfortunately, a large portion of the early players that transitioned the company to Michigan are no longer with us.
Bob Osterhoff's "Inside the Lionel Trains Fun Factory" is a must-read for any student of Lionel's manufacturing history. It predominantly focuses on the prewar and postwar time periods, but there is some post-1969 coverage.
There are also literally hundreds of other interesting tidbits that can be found by scouring other books, early train club publications, toy trade periodicals, model-kit magazines (MPC made quite the splash when they first hit the model kit market), General Mills corporate reports, and the like. I'm almost embarrassed by how large my library has become, but I can honestly say that I learn something new every time I go digging.
Originally Posted by C W Burfle:
I was looking over this thread, with particular interest in Todd's (PaperTRW) comments.
What a fountain of knowledge!
I think he could write a book.
I know that I would purchase a copy.
Thanks, CW. I'm not sure a book will ever be in the cards from me, even though I've been fortunate to accumulate a lot of interesting material -- and stories -- from those years. Maybe someday the planets will align: there will be a demand for such a book in the marketplace, and I'll have the time to devote to it.
