15" passenger cars look funny on O31

Silliness like beauty is in the eye of the beholder and each era has a collection of apt representatives.

15" passenger cars were the standard 0 / SuperO size on the 1950's PW sets. They don't look any different today on 031 track then the equivalent modern 15" equipment looks now. I never saw 12" passengers till this current era, and well I think that they look silly standing still! But wait, like so many I became enamored by the recent series of MTH subway cars and they have disproportionate silliness between the relationship of the car bodies, couplers and their standard O gauge trucks. Then there is always the matter of most equipment designated as 072 capable, including those elegant 21" passengers on 072+ track

What you should do? I have no idea ... I myself retired from the "advice business" years ago and now feel that giving internet advice is rather silly in and of itself!

I had some of the same sized passenger cars on an O36 layout and realized I had to choose between the toy train look and more realistic look. I went with realistic and rebuilt. That's why smaller scales sell well. It's a space thing. Not much else you can do if they don't look right to you. Shorter cars won't lot right either IMO. But I've seen a lot of great layouts with sharper curves than mine.

You can try 0-36 radius track. The 15" cars will look better on that, and may very well be acceptable to you (I think it would). Try it somewhere. If that's not for you, then go with shorter cars, like 12" cars. Those would be fine on 0-31.

15" cars look awkward on 27" and 31" inch curves, yes.  But I blame the curves, not the cars.  I think 15" is about as short as a reasonable-looking passenger car can be made.  Perhaps 12" or 13" long passenger cars would overhang/jut less on tight curves, but they would look "funny" all the time. 

A move to 36" curves, will help, as mentioned.  Bigger curves than that would help even more.  You say you don't have room for 42" curves, but this trick often works.  Combine really tight curves sections, where the car overhang is less visible, with milder curves, where the car overhang is very easy to see (diagram below).  I do this in a couple of places on my tightest loop, for example, running a combination of 27 and 48 inch curves that fits in just a bit more space than a 36"inch curve would fill up.

<--Side harder to see cars on the left     side most visible on the right-->

"...or I could just run RMT Peeps"

Talk about looking funny!  The single truck, 12 passenger Peeps just look too goofy for me. (Sorry, Walter)

I have O-36 curves and the 15" cars are nice - Use them on my portable layout with O-31 and they look OK.

Ed

I have always preferred to run smaller trains on my 031 layouts.

As Frank wrote, I used 2400 series 027 passenger cars over 2500 series "O" passenger cars.

I used 2400 and 6400 series boxcars over 6464 boxcars.

2023 style Alcos over F3 or FM Diesels.

A 773 will run on 031, but it doesn't look good.

Bingo, Frank.

I have a layout with O72 minimum curves.  Although I have a couple of sets of 18" cars, I hardly run them...they're now off the track.  The 15" cars....esp. the latest generation ext. aluminum by K-Line and/or Lionel...are my 'standard', looking the best on the curves.  That's one of the reasons I'm especially pumped for the new 'Neil Young Signature Series' offerings...Texas Special and PRR...in the latest Lionel catalog....the 15"-ers are staging a comeback!!!

Your last sentence re 21" cars?....couldn't have said it better!  Yet, I know its a TEHO world, and that's fine by me. 

Having ridden 1:1 passenger trains as a kid, traversing the noisy car-to-car vestibules/diaphragms, going to 'the head'...standing or sitting...as the train sped along on less-than-perfect trackwork, sitting at a dining car table watching the spring water slosh in the table decanter as the waiter stood spread-legged for stability in the aisle patiently waiting to take Mom's order for herself and two kids, I try to imagine the passengers' perilous plight as they journey over my layout.  Most to be pitied are the poor peoples occupying the restrooms at the ends of the cars, or about to broad-jump the diaphragms when the O3R cars hit the curves without easement or warning at typical O3R scale speeds of mach 0.1!

Meanwhile, back at the thread poster's posit...when I first got my Lionel 2500-series aluminum cars back in the early 50's, they looked perfectly fine flailing about on my O31 layout curves.  Now?  Not so much.  Ergo, O72 curves...minimum...same car length.  Constrained on curve radii?  Possible choices: 2400-series cars, all curves 'tunneled', TWO glasses of merlot before running the trains (same appearance, less concern), a few sessions with a 'shrink' specializing in ferroequinology, bigger house (bigger basement), freight-only trains consisting of 40' (10") cars (You can claim demise of passenger service due to debt-reduction budget-slashing on the part of sychophantic subsidizers), further judicious shortening of passenger cars with a hacksaw and JB Weld ("Peeps"??), etc., etc., etc.. 

Then, there's always N-scale.  (Hissssssssssssss!)  That 15.5" radius on an N-scale layout will work well with the 80-footers for those 1:160 folks.

BTW, nice 'Beano' set!

KD 

I think the 15" cars look OK on O36 curves, but when you take them through an S-curve, almost any car looks a bit odd as it snakes through.  I think the 18" passenger cars look silly going through an O-72 S-curve, so I think it's more the track layout than the cars.  I don't think you can fix the cars looking odd on S-curves.

Have you tried to open your curves just a bit by using half curves in 031 or mixing in some half curves in 042? 036 is out of the picture because you have to change track to do so, usually only a Fastrac or Atlas diameter. Gargraves 032 curves will look better, but then you have to change track again.

Lee Fritz

I agree with all the comments on curves. I sometimes mix alternatly "long" and "short" passenger cars whch seems to help as well.

MIKE

"..TWO glasses of Merlot before running the trains (same appearance, less concern), a few sessions with a 'shrink' specializing in ferroequinology,.."

Best ideas to date! Maybe I'll double up on the Zoloft.

I need to think this out but right now I'm leaning towards selling them and buying shorter cars. I have $115 in the set. Any takers? ...or trades?

Very interesting topic: I prefer the 15" passenger cars.

I am also wondering why Lionel has for a second time in as many years made the Blue Comet Steam Engine to run on 036 track and the matching passenger cars 19" long to run on 054 track. (Again, Just Wondering Why).

Well, the cars just don't like those really tight curves and you know Lionel is just going to repaint their standard cars.  I suppose they could have done 15" cars in the set but those might note have looked as good.  It is a very fine looking set when put together, the loco and the four cars.

This set is for sale or trade on the For Sale forum. Thanks, Bill.

Lee, I agree they do make a good looking set.

I do remember when K-Line would offer Passenger Cars, They would offer the Passenger Cars in 18" or 15" . My point being as long as the Engine can run on 036, why not make matching Passenger Cars that could run on 036. I have some of the K-Line Aluminum 15" Passenger Cars (Reading Lines) and they are super. I do not believe they were available in the Blue Comet Line.

Try a W/WBB EF-4 electric freights on O-31

Just look away when the trains go around the offending curves; only watch them on the straightaways.   That's what I do. 

You can also try to hide or obscure somewhat the overhang effect by using tunnels, scenery, etc. where your curves are.

Frank, Thanks for the reply.

I will also agree that 15" Passenger cars do not look the greatest on 036 track and certain Engines might not look good either.

My point is for folks who only have 036, 042 or 048 track, at least they would have a set they could run regardless of appearance. (K-line must have felt the same way by offering the same cars in 15" or 18"). When I first mentioned this to Charles Ro  (Why 036 Engine and 054 Cars) in the Lionel 2012 signature edition catalog, They were surprised and their reply was they also did not understand it.

I believe folks can and will run whatever they choose on their layouts, and as long as they are Happy, I am Happier for them.

I just wanted to echo Frank's point about equipment.   

Moreover, while I think much of the larger, scale or closer-to-scale equipment is beautiful, I think a downside is that it tends to drive the hobby to a smaller subset of people who have the space for gigantic layouts and this in turn reinforces the idea that O gauge trains are not a practical hobby for anyone with less than a huge amount of space.  Lionel is certainly focusing more effort on the scale, high-end subset of the hobby, and that is their decision obviously.  WBB and MTH seem more focused on offering attractive traditionally proportioned trains, and this is one of the reasons I am excited to start using DCS as an operating system and did not acquire Legacy.

I'm with Lee & John Korling here. Use an easement to hide the tight curve behind terrain, trees, or a building or three.

It makes everything look better with a smaller total footprint.

RL NYC;  I am in the same boat but more for the price than the size.

The Imperial Railking offerings are awesome and I can actually afford one now and then. They also look decent going around tighter curves but look really great on the O-72 and bigger places.

My Big Boy is a case in point, Yes, it will traverse an O-31 curve but it looks ridiculous doing so. It looks much better on O-48 or bigger and that is where it stays now.

I keep the O-31 for under the Christmas tree. And I run much smaller engines there.

I don't see it that way at all.  Every catalog I see from Lionel and MTH always show a plethora of smaller, "traditional size" rolling stock being offered, that's not including separately published starter set catalogs.

Space premium has always been O gauge's weakness, and that holds true regardless of the trains being full scale or not.  Back in the post-WWII days, more and more families were moving into suburbs with smaller homes or apartments where basements don't exist or living space was pretty much all you had, with little available for anything else.  That's why HO and N scale really took the lead in the model railroad and toy train market; you can simply do more in those smaller scales than you could in O using the same overall footprint.

This is what happens when we grow up.

I don't believe there is a child out there who cares about overhang, underhang or scale on his or her train set. They are to busy having fun. OMHO.

I fully understand your point that O gauge has always had a challenge in terms of space, but I also think that it is undeniable that the move to scale equipment exacerbates the issue greatly.  

I don't want to start a Lionel v. MTH v. WBB debate - not productive.  I have many excellent products from all three firms.  People can look at the offerings themselves and reach their own conclusions as to the focus of each firm vis a vis the market.  

As one who grew up in the era of O31 curves and 15" passenger cars, the overhang never really bothered me.  It was what it was: a long car on sharp curves and my tiny child's mind didn't care.  In fact, I rather enjoyed how the cars appeared to "sail" through the curves.

Even after rediscovering postwar Lionel after several decades of HO modeling, the overhang of the Super Speedliners and their offspring on O31 curves didn't bother me.  I accepted the fact I wasn't looking at a scale model and the overhang didn't matter.  I just let my imagination take over.

Rusty

Like I said, based on catalogs I read over the years, I don't see the availability or proliferation of scale products causing an issue with availability of traditional sized equipment.  I see plenty of the smaller than scale offerings being made and offered.  Just don't get the same perception you do.

Oh gee I dunno, maybe because they are extremely impressive down the straightaways. Maybe because owners of 21" cars have a future layout planned with more accommodating curves and make due with what they have for now. Maybe because 21" cars are a highly sought-after commodity. Maybe because owners of 21" cars don't care what they look like on tight curves and are enjoying themselves regardless of what some guy on the internet dictates about how to run them.

Wait a minute, how did 21" cars even manage to come up in the first reply to a thread about 15" cars? 

If 12" is as long as 15" they might.