#2331 VIRGINIAN

If both motors are idle, the likely issue is the E-unit.

Is the drum turning with each sequence?  Are the headlamps illuminating? Does the horn & relay work? Is this a sudden failure or is this a new acquisition?

The yellow wire disapearing into the frame is probably from the E-unit and should go to one of the brush well solder tab.

Although it's kind of a sad thing, sometimes a person will go into the wiring of their loco, and forget or just guess as to which wire goes where, get frustrated and sell it for what they can get. Trainmen or trainwomen can pick these up (more than occasionally), find the problem fairly quickly and have a nice-running unit that was badly repaired. I've picked up 2 nice mid-fifties Lionel engines like that; one was a simply resoldering of one wire and the other required a bit more, but was very easiliy fixable.

I take pictures first with my cell phone. Then take wires off. Don

I tried connecting one transformer wire to ground, and the other to each of the brush wires. Nothing.  Just the lights work. Engine may have to be retired to a dead spur with the lights on for effect.

Here is the wiring diagram for the 2331. Make sure the wiring is correct, and the loco should work.

If the motors do not run, disconnect all wires from the 'E' unit to the motors. Connect one transformer lead to a brush connection on one motor. Jumper the other brush connection to the field winding connection on the motor. Connect the other transformer wire to the motor ground and apply power. The motor should run. Reverse the brush connections and apply power and the motor should run in the opposite direction. Do this to both motors. The motors should pass this test. If they do, the problem is with the 'E' unit. If they do not pass this test, the motors need troubleshooting.

Larry

@cpasam posted:

I tried connecting one transformer wire to ground, and the other to each of the brush wires. Nothing.

That's not the right test. The field & armature have to be connected in series with the AC to get a motor to turn.

The E unit may be cycling but check to insure the drum is clean and all four fingers are making good contact. I. Have seen where the fingers have been bent or even broken off from age and a lot of running.

Okay, here comes my oldest train story.  I went up to my local Two Guys from Harrison after Christmas in 1966 (I was 14).  On the shelf behind the counter was a 2322 Virginian that had been returned because it wouldn't run. It would just sit on the track and not move when power was applied.

I knew my dad was pretty adept at fixing trains so I asked what they would sell it for.  I think I bought it for around $40 (Catalog price was $65) but swore to my dad that I only paid $25 (I don't think he ever believed me).

The point of all this is, I brought it home and my dad opened it up.  When he lifted each end up, the trucks would run.  He quickly diagnosed that the factory had wired the two motors in reverse of each other.  A quick switch of the wires on one of the motors, and that engine ran great, and still does to this day.  You may want to check to see if this might be the same issue causing your problem.

LionelFlyer

Thanks but I've had this engine for 40 years.  In the last few years, first it wouldn't reverse, and now it won't run at all.

@cpasam posted:

...In the last few years, first it wouldn't reverse, and now it won't run at all.

Did neutral work as well, or did it run in forward only, no neutral?

Some pictures are worth 1000 words.

May I ask a question, since it ran 40 years ago and not now, could it be that the grease around the gears has hardened? I saw this with an F3 unit I fixed for a friend a couple of months ago. Miketg

@Miketg posted:

...could it be that the grease around the gears has hardened?

@cpasam posted:

...I've had this engine for 40 years.  In the last few years, first it wouldn't reverse, and now it won't run at all.

Probably not a mechanical issue.  I wish it was nearby so I could put eyes on it, it looks like 10-15 minutes in the right hands has this up & running again.

Rob:

Possible good news:  with the engine on a test track, I ran a second wire directly from the hot side of the transformer to motor #1 left side brush: the motors responded and the engine moved.

But I could only get it to go in one direction. I tried the other brush, and no movement.  Could be it was still referring back to what must be the bad E Unit. 

Do you think it's worth a shot to invest in a new E Unit?  Looks like a new one on E Bay comes pre-wired.

@cpasam posted:

Rob:

Possible good news:  with the engine on a test track, I ran a second wire directly from the hot side of the transformer to motor #1 left side brush: the motors responded and the engine moved.

But I could only get it to go in one direction. I tried the other brush, and no movement.

The reason it ran this way is because of the position of the drum in the E-unit. If you are not comfortable replacing the drum & both contact finger boards, then replacement is an easy solution.

Have you tried moving the E-Unit lever to the "on" position to see if that cycles the reverse unit?

Read my post above how to isolate the 'E' unit and test the motors for proper operation. Both motors MUST operate properly in both directions before going any farther.

When both motors run properly in both directions, then attention can be turned to the 'E' unit.

Here is a tutorial in 2 parts on rebuilding an 'E' unit:

Part 1

Part 2

Larry

Thanks Larry

I ran your motor test, and the engine moves both ways, proving the problem is with the E Unit. There was some sparking when I ran the jumper wire but hopefully that won't be an issue ( I hadn't disconnected the wires from the existing E Unit, but had the lever in neutral to run your test).

That's good news. Now you know the problem is the 'E' unit and you can turn your attention to rebuilding it. The videos give you a step by step procedure.

Call The Train Tender to order the contacts and drum.

Larry