Thanks Hot water,
Apart from the Lionel CCII Niagara gear failures I haven't heard of any problems with MTH / Lionel drive trains, but this doesn't mean that they haven't occupied.
I appreciate your explanation of the 3RD Rail drive train. It sounds complicated. I would like to see a picture of one.
Thanks,
Richard
EBT Jim posted:Hot Water posted:.......Thus, the Sunset/3rd Rail systems offers exceptional slow speed, and is superior to either Lionel or MTH diesel "China Drive" systems.
Could you please post a close-up video of your 3rd Rail diesel .... illustrating its slow speed operation?
Thanks
Sorry, but I have given all my camera equipment to our Grandson, plus I don't do videos. Everybody who owns any of the Sunset/3rd Rail diesel models can, and has, attested to the fact of how beautifully slow and smooth the operate.
Richard Gonzales posted:Thanks Hot water,
Apart from the Lionel CCII Niagara gear failures I haven't heard of any problems with MTH / Lionel drive trains, but this doesn't mean that they haven't occupied.
Maybe not "problems" but, with that "China drive" set-up, they do NOT operate smoothly and extremely slow speeds. Plus, with on of those "twin vertical mounted motors" in the cab area, the cab is sometimes lacking in rear wall detail due to the big motor.
I appreciate your explanation of the 3RD Rail drive train. It sounds complicated.
It's not really. By using that cog belt, the motor can thus be mounted perfectly horizontal to the low mounted drive shaft assembly, i.e. the motor does NOT have to be tipped at an angle in order to reach the drive mechanism as on other manufacturers steam locomotive models.
I would like to see a picture of one.
Maybe someone else, who does photography, can help with this, as I no longer do photography.
Thanks,
Richard
Hmmmm . . .
I have not experienced this super smooth low speed low speed running with my 3rd Rail E8s. They start and run at slow speed about the same as my MTH E8s and my Legacy F3.
This video is typical of how my 3rd Rail E8s lurch into motion. . .
Postscript: My engines were running in 32 step mode in that video, not R100! Changing them to R100 made a very substantial difference. No more lurching into motion! Sorry for the initial blunder.
Hot Water posted:EBT Jim posted:Hot Water posted:.......Thus, the Sunset/3rd Rail systems offers exceptional slow speed, and is superior to either Lionel or MTH diesel "China Drive" systems.
Could you please post a close-up video of your 3rd Rail diesel .... illustrating its slow speed operation?
Thanks
Everybody who owns any of the Sunset/3rd Rail diesel models can, and has, attested to the fact of how beautifully slow and smooth the operate.
Terry Danks posted:Hmmmm . . .
I have not experienced this super smooth low speed low speed running with my 3rd Rail E8s. They start and run at slow speed about the same as my MTH E8s and my Legacy F3.
This video is typical of how my 3rd Rail E8s lurch into motion. . .
Ok, so which is it? I don't own any 3rd Rail products, but admit that I'm very intrigued by the supposed slow-speed operations...in addition of course to the overall beauty and awesome level of detail of their products.
However, I watched Terry's video and just don't see it. His engine lurches in a pretty similar manner to any other products on the market. And before anyone says it...yes, I realize that Terry's is but one example...that's why I'm asking this question.
So, as for 3rd Rail's slow speed operation...real or imagined?? Anyone else have some slow-speed videos to share?
Terry Danks posted:Hmmmm . . .
I have not experienced this super smooth low speed low speed running with my 3rd Rail E8s. They start and run at slow speed about the same as my MTH E8s and my Legacy F3.
This video is typical of how my 3rd Rail E8s lurch into motion. . .
Terry, these use an ElectricRR Cruise Commanders. Are you in 32 or 100 speed step mode.
Pete
If I don't work until the wee hours like I have for the last 7 days straight, I'll see if I have time to post a video of some of my 3rd Rail locomotives running. I don't use command with them. After about an hour or so of wear in, they tend to operate a lot smoother. My E8s have only seen about 15 minutes of run time so far. My FL9s and FTs run wonderfully. Still need to break in my SD7. All the rest are two rail so there isn't much to compare them two for this thread.
Norton posted:Terry Danks posted:Hmmmm . . .
I have not experienced this super smooth low speed low speed running with my 3rd Rail E8s. They start and run at slow speed about the same as my MTH E8s and my Legacy F3.
This video is typical of how my 3rd Rail E8s lurch into motion. . .
Terry, these use an ElectricRR Cruise Commanders. Are you in 32 or 100 speed step mode.
Pete
Glad you asked, Pete, as I'm not sure. I configure them individually as TMCC in the Legacy controller and then as a train.
They generally don't move at one notch of the big red wheel. My Legacy F3 invariably moves reliably at that first notch.
Both have likely been programmed 32 steps by default as I never went through the ERR steps outlined on p.3 of the 3rd Rail pamphlet. I dunn'o. But it's more important to me to have them run as a train than to have 100 speed steps but, can I have both?
What will happen if I enter the AUX key sequence for 100 steps with the TR# selected?
Postscript: My engines were indeed running in 32 step mode, not R100! Changing them to R100 made a very substantial difference.
You do get both. You need to set them up as 100 speed steps and they function as a train in 100 speed steps. You also need to set the legacy controller to operate in R100 mode for each loco
Terry, Try what Matt says. I have Legacy but 99% of the time I use my Cab1 for my TMCC engines so I would use Aux key sequence. To check slow speed I move the knob and look for the first blink on the Command Base.
Most all Command systems have a lag between when you start turning the knob and when the engine starts to move. I think most turn the knob until the engine starts moving. That usually results in more than few steps being sent to the engine and results in the jump. By looking for one blink, then waiting you will be sure its moving as slow as possible.
Pete
Thanks, Pete and Matt. Done! Yes, now the 3rd Rail E8s do indeed run VERY smoothly at ultra low speed! I'll edit my post to prevent the dissemination of incorrect information.
Terry,
Great news!! I guess I need to break down and get a TMCC control system. They've only been around for 20+ years. 
Jonathan, it's worth the money. You can get these babies to creep at SS1
Here is the same train, 11 GGD 21" HW cars starting up a 2% grade . . .
It's so slow, it's like watching paint dry! At 48 secs I got bored and started accelerating!
Used fade-in so the thumbnail appears blank . . . but it works.
Terry - thanks for posting that video! Now I am VERY excited to receive my new 3rd rail E8s. Those CPs look beautiful. I went for the five stripe PRR and SF paint scheme. Honestly, all of the New 3rd rail E8s looked amazing I wanted 2 of each lol
Terry Danks posted:Here is the same train, 11 GGD 21" HW cars starting up a 2% grade . . .
It's so slow, it's like watching paint dry! At 48 secs I got bored and started accelerating!
Used fade-in so the thumbnail appears blank . . . but it works.
Very nice, Terry! Thanks for taking the time to post the video. Yes, they really do creep along.
The 3rd Rail E7s had a flanged center axle and now all the new ones have the blind axle. I wish Scott would stop worrying about 054 curves with these big engines. The blind axle looks HORRIBLE, bearing or not.... I don't understand why it's advertised as all axles powered... what good is the axle if the wheels are not on the rail. Yes "technically" it is powerd by definition, but a blind axle only benefits the guy who wants to run his big *ss engine on a little bitty curve!
Better idea: Make both kinds of axles readily available as spare parts. Grooved for rubber tires, or not. Heck, why not 2-rail code .145 axles too. Parts is parts, none of this B.S. about counterfeitting. Run 'em till the dies fold! Then everyone can have what they want.
I may be in the minority on this thread, but I think Scott made the right decision in migrating to blind center axles. His engines are second to none when it comes to detail and quality. For operators like myself, however, smooth, worry-free operation is most important. If an engine looks great, but will not operate on a layout smoothly, what good is it? My curves are all O-72 or more, but with flanged center axles, I have still had operating issues. Even on some straightaways, with less than perfect track, it was a problem. I don't care how blind center axles look, as I am not a purist who is looking at them with a microscope. My apologies if I have offended anyone, as that is not my intent, and I respect the views of all of my colleagues on the Forum.
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