A simple question

Although I agree that having too many remotes can be a bit of a pain at times, I think that the concept of the LionChief Plus remote is great.

You have true cab control with one of these. For a club, or group layout running several trains at once this could greatly increase the realism of operations. Each locomotive has its own remote, and whoever has the remote is in total control of that locomotive. This leaves others to act as dispatchers, signalmen etc.

I can see endless possibilities for operating in this manner. 

I agree with Nicole.

"I really don't mean to be rude, But, I call it extremely stupid."

I'd call your remark extremely rude, nonetheless.  Just because others see things differently than you, doesn't mean they're stupid.  In fact, in this case, they may be considerably more astute than you are.   I'm guessing that Lion Chief was the creation, at least in part of Jon Z. and Mike R. at Lionel.  These are incredibly smart and innovative people, perhaps the most innovative and technically knowledgeable in the industry, in my view.  Each has founded one or more startup companies that were quite successful. They are working in this industry because they want to, not because they are not good enough for some other mass market product.  So that's who you are calling "stupid."

The first automobiles were greeted with remarks similar to yours.  I'm not saying Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus will revolutionize toy trains the way the automobile revolutionized transportation.  But I believe they clearly open up a cost effective and dynamic alternative to full command control that will appeal to a large number of consumers. Just not you.  Lionel, by far, leads the industry in affordable starter sets and now they could lead the industry, potentially, in the next step up from starter sets (locos), in terms of value for money.    Time will tell.

The Legacy Cab-2 controls everything. The LCS is an extension of the Cab-2, not a new remote.

It's a digital control board. While the LCS can perform basic train control, it is a Layout Control System.

When the layout becomes complex to operate, the LCS simplifies it, using a visual touch interface.  No more having to remember RTE numbers for switch configurations, etc. Just look at the screen, red or green provides status, touch to change, swipe to go to a different area.

Compare it to your entertainment system. Operational difficulty was present, solved by an all-in-one remote. Cab-1 and Cab-2 provide that solution. The natural next step is a visual touch interface.

You're point may have some validity, but you haven't provided the rationale for it. I happen to disagree. 

I love the idea of Lionchief with its many remotes.   One loco, one remote.  A remote for every loco and a loco for every remote: 

The problem with the "one remote operates many locos" concept is that it adds complexity (programming addresses, etc.) and I don't like that.  Plus, I will need one remote for each loco on some occasions. I give one to each grandkid and each of my sons and me and we all operate at the same time!  

I have a remote Thomas and a Lionchief (non-plus) and like them.  But Lionchief Plus is the way I want to go.  If the remote dies you can run conventional until you get fresh batteries or get it repaired.  And if I want to run conventionally, as I do when I just leave the trains running all afternoon, I can just switch them in conventional.

My first Lionchief plus loco arrives in about six hours, according to UPS, so we will see . . . . 

Shawn, you should see all the remotes we have to have on hand to demonstrate these products in a retail store!

I was not a fan for that reason alone, but I have seen the light. I wanted them to put TMCC in there, but then the customer has to buy a system to run the train.

With LionChief you can get the enjoyment of running in digital mode with a lot of the features without having to buy a TMCC or Legacy remote. It would have been ideal if they could have made this work in TMCC or LionChief but I think cost was an issue.

We like them and they are selling! That is what really matters.

So, you are speaking of LionChief. I think you have just defined they're marketing strategy using your transformer analogy. Buy the more expensive equipment and trains as the next step.

"I once had four LionChief engines and dreamed for a Legacy Control and Legacy engines with more features because I can control my whole layout from one remote"

LOL. I get busy with the PolEx and Thomas when the grandson is over. We had a celebration horn blast with the Cab2 and two LionChief remotes on the table, I three fingered the horn buttons with bells ringing. I still have more fingers before the toes come into play.

There is a place for a singular remote. But, not to have those engine controllable by stepping up the food chain of controllers is not a good decision. IMHO

The true rivet counter won't buy these engines anyway. It's a great way for others to have a good remote engine(s) without having to buy anything else.

Try to do some simple plumbing repairs sometime and see what stupid really is.

Steve, Lady and Tex

Ladies & Gentlemen,

   It's called Engineering and Marketing, what Lionel and MTH have both done is expand their sales buy engineering stand alone products that can also run on their own track set ups.  Actually a very smart business practice, it is definitely not bad engineering nor is it stupid to supply the public in this marketing method. 

shawn,

    What looks "stupid" to you at this time will change drastically with more engineering and marketing experience.  It's a way of making money and expanding their business, and it works, everytime.

PCRR/Dave

I agree with N.Q.D.Y. here. I don't think LionChief was designed to do what you are wanting, it was designed to get people in to the hobby and as stated above for club or group running with your own remote. I didn't like the idea at first either, until I realized what market they were trying to attract with it. Although some folks here have interest in the LionChief line, I don't think it was meant to be for the devoted Legacy scale modeler. I could see having a set for my grandson to run.

From another thread yesterday, got me to thinking about the missing mid priced steamers in the Lionel line.  Purely speculation here, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lionel came out with some new steamers in the mid price range that work with Legacy and fill the void in an upcoming catalog. Back to one remote if so desired. I think we just need to give them time to see what happens. At least one other person was thinking this yesterday as well.

And also from yesterday, N.Q.D.Y., I enjoy your sense of humor. You have a great way of putting things in perspective sometimes. Some folks are just too serious at times.

"Watch MSNBC for a bit. Then you won't be insulted by the word stupid."

I'm rather struck by your novel approach to standards of courtesy.  In any event, I'm fairly certain that Lionel's sales figures will prove you stupendously wrong about the desirability of Lion Chief and Lion Chief Plus.  We'll check back in a few years and see who was "stupid," and who was "not stupid."

It is prototypical to have one engineer, and one control stand, per locomotive.

Count me in the Lion Chief-2 supporters!

Not in Multiple Unit configurations... 

Rusty

LionChief & LionChief Plus has that covered too. If you MU several locomotives of the same type, they will all respond to the same remote.  

If there is only one thing I have learned about "electronics", it is only a matter of time until someone somewhere will come up with another way to do the same thing with a slightly different perspective. Call it a niche market - but if there is money to be made - it will be done.

How many game consoles are there??

I just wonder, what if say five or so people show up to the club, and the all have the same engine!!

Art

They take turns?

You do not get my point, if all five or so engines are on the clubs layout, they would all be picking up the signal.

Art

Rather than address the many opinions/ideas/statements/comments about my earlier post above one by one, I acknowledge all - most are intelligently made and mostly well stated: 

- I understand why someone might want one remote but I'm not one of those people.

- I think Lionel has a home run with remote Thomas, Lionchief plus, and to a lesser extent Lionchief (maybe its just a stand-up triple?).

- I hope:

 - Lionel drops Lionchief non-plus

 - Evolves their locos to the following:

   -Every loco is offer in a "base form" with sound card, etc., that runs conventionally only, via a removable card - it would be made the size of an SD card under the cab floor.

   - You could upgrade to a Lionchief Plus or Legacy control SD card for a bit extra $.

   - You could upgrade further to Legacy Supreme, a new RF system that was basically Lionchief plus with added features that covered  all Legacy functions including the ability to address any locomotive and/or multiple locomotives at once.

In the mean time, I will run my locos conventionally but get Lioncheif for when the grandkids are here: they live in a world where everything has a remote.

The Lionchief line isn't really meant for large layouts or club running.  If you take it for the intended market, the entry level buyer, they fill that role just fine.  Not many folks buying these would think of buying multiple identical sets.

"

You do not get my point, if all five or so engines are on the clubs layout, they would all be picking up the signal.

 "

I got your point. They all have the same loco so they cannot run simultaneously. Just like if they had conventional locos and a command layout.  One loco at a time. Hence my suggestion that they can take turns. 

What's the likelihood that five members of a club arrive with exactly the same loco, but no other loco to play with?  Pretty low.  This is not terribly different than, in my view, worrying about what happens if your Lion Chief loco is hit by a meteorite.

"

The Lionchief line isn't really meant for large layouts or club running."

But they should work fine and make perfect "demonstrators" in some settings.  Five different locos on five different loops or large blocks of a modular layout would work just fine with a DCS and/or TMCC club or modular layout.  The ideal remote and loco to hand off to spectators, especially kids.  Certainly less risky/tricky than a cab-2 or DCS handheld.

I agree that most folks won't buy whole bunches of Lion Chief locos to operate by remotes, but certainly 2-5 isn't unreasonable and you just store/display the remote with the loco. These are 2.4 GHz radios and probably can be made to be reprogrammed so any remote can control any loco (technically speaking).  Whether Lionel chooses to do that is anyone's guess. I suspect that some radio control gurus will be figuring out how to do it, since radio control 2.4 GHz digital spread spectrum transmitters with receivers are available for <$50. A lot cheaper than Legacy or DCS, and even less than the cab-1L/command base 1L.

At least we'll know what happened when somebody's brand new LionChief engine suddenly loops the loop and crashes in flames upon the floor. 

I not a fan of "Lionchief", but I am a fan of "Lionchief Plus"!

In reality, it's hard to use one Legacy / TMCC remote to control multiple trains at the same time.  You are constantly switching engine numbers adjusting the locomotives speed or functions if they are on the same track or approaching a crossover or turnout where multiple locomotive control is needed.

Having another "engineer" controlling his train, whether Legacy / TMCC or LionChief Plus is the ideal situation.  This is a low cost way to get more 1:1 remotes to engines in one engineers hands.  Adding another Legacy / TMCC will of course work, but it is very expensive.

Having the ability to still run conventional is a must for me, but of course I prefer command control when I have the choice.

What I would like to see in the future is some way to use Legacy to talk to a new box that would mimic the individual remotes so that you still can have your "universal" remote that can control anything (assuming there is a magic box in the system that can repeat the commands on the LionChief remotes frequencies for that engine). 

It shouldn't be that hard to do, like having multiple channels for RC cars and planes.  You would just tell Legacy to connect to a LionChief train you would program, and it would send signals to the new box which intern will send the correct LionChief signals to your train.

This would make everyone happy, and have all the bases covered.

For all I know, may be Lionel is already working on such a beast in the future...

Its not long before DCS talks to legacy now that it's opened, and Legacy in turn should be expanded through hardware to talk to these LionChief locomotives.

In the meantime, I always thought ideally, you want one remote per train for optimal control, and this does it.

I hope Lionel reads my post and considers this. 

Clever idea to have a repeater to control the LionChief stuff from the Legacy remote, sounds like a product idea.