I have the Atlas car from a few years ago, and also have some of the B&O ones that just trains carried. These are REALLY nice cars. They are quite heavy as they are not plastic.
I am running 3 of them behind my C&O Legacy Mikado and it struggles a bit going up grade.
If you can find the Atlas ones, you will be happy you spent the $$$ on them.
John
But from the train companies vantage point, they are going to produce items that were used by more railroads
How many RRs owned the Baldwin DR-12-8-1500/2 Centipede (answer is approx. 5, with a total of 55 units)?
Does anyone really know just how a manufacturer arrives at what they'll make next? Not having ever seen anything from a manufacturer (in the 15 years I've been into O scale) in the way of a survey of what we'd like to see next, I'm guessing they probably listen to a small circle of people who hold some influence over them.
If Weaver has a hopper that can be made to match a N&W car, simply by adding peaked end glue-on parts into the box, then that's who I'd contact. Next best thing is to get a master made then start pumping out copies of the end so folks who want them can acquire as many as they need.
I think the disparity between the production of specific locomotives vs. freight cars is that probably in most cases, the freight cars are merely props for the locomotive to pull.
Simply put, "good enough" has a wider widow of acceptance for freight (or passenger for that matter) cars than it does for locomotives for most folks.
Everybody oooh's and aaah's at the locomotive when a train is running, not so much for the cars it's pulling.
Rusty
The importers I know are constantly welcoming suggestions. This is an opportunity to inform the importers and try to rally some support from buyers.
All the talk about manufacturing in this thread is a distraction. Nobody knows one way or the other where the importers will stand on this specific request.
Folks who point out the obvious are not hurting your chances with the manufacturers. If the profit is there, your cars will be forthcoming, no matter what the realists or naysayers say.
100% correct.....if there is money to be made.....N&W 2 bays will be made!!!!!
Our point that seems to be missed is there is plenty of 2 bays and no manufacture is willing to spend money on a product segment already crowded.
If Weaver has a hopper that can be made to match a N&W car, simply by adding peaked end glue-on parts into the box, then that's who I'd contact. Next best thing is to get a master made then start pumping out copies of the end so folks who want them can acquire as many as they need.
Would a peak end, tooled and produced in injected plastic be acceptable to the N&W crowd or applying them to Weavers 'wrong' 2 bay be a financial flop??? As I've said....I know mold makers......This in N&W paint and correct peaked ends????
The importers I know are constantly welcoming suggestions. This is an opportunity to inform the importers and try to rally some support from buyers.
All the talk about manufacturing in this thread is a distraction. Nobody knows one way or the other where the importers will stand on this specific request.
Are you talking about the specialty manufactures and importers??? If you are then the $40 price range will never be met by a small company. Simple economics.
The importers I know are constantly welcoming suggestions. This is an opportunity to inform the importers and try to rally some support from buyers.
All the talk about manufacturing in this thread is a distraction. Nobody knows one way or the other where the importers will stand on this specific request.
Are you talking about the specialty manufactures and importers??? If you are then the $40 price range will never be met by a small company. Simple economics.
The Weaver twin hoppers already MSRP at $47.95-$49.95, depending on if they're 3-rail or 2-rail. Similar cars from MTH are $59.95, Lionel's most recent price was $69.95.
Any newly tooled car would definitely cost more.
Rusty
No-What is your purpose in participating in this thread?
Mine is to try to give some support for an item to be imported. My guess is that is the aim of some others here, also. I'm NOT missing any point that is relevant to that simple request.
No-What is your purpose in participating in this thread?
Mine is to try to give some support for an item to be imported. My guess is that is the aim of some others here, also. I'm NOT missing any point that is relevant to that simple request.
If you are referring to me???? My purpose is to educate and inform. I offer my real world hobby industry working knowledge to help folks understand the ins and outs of the biz. I too support the manufacture of the N&W 2 bay hopper.....I have mold designers, mold manufactures and a big factory in China (sorry....but if you want low cost) waiting.....all it takes is CASH!! I'll do all consulting for FREE!! I just do not feel it will make a penny for many years if ever......if it would Weaver or MTH or Lionel etc etc would be all over it. Not a nay sayer of kill joy.....just offering help to get them made...with real world expectations....
quote:no manufacture is willing to spend money on a product segment already crowded.
Crowded with what? The same ol' same ol'! As I think someone said earlier, some manufacturers are just rehashing what they have. And, if it is not selling, I don't wonder why.
With all of these negative waves, I feel like Oddball talking to Moriarty in "Kelly's Heroes". Lose the defeatist attitude and think positive. Kelly knew how to spend money to make money!
think positive.
Careful when saying that. You'll have people respond by saying, "I'm positive that the N&W 2-bay hopper you want will likely not be made anytime soon."
Nothing negative here!!!!!! Send me the cash.....within a year you will have them.....8,000 is the minimum run so 500,000 divided by 8,000 is only $65 each plus transportation and taxes etc......BTW....up front.
Maybe Weaver would like a partner to split cost with......don't sit around talking about it.....DO IT! A partner would lower your investment to the $250,000 level or so.....now we're getting reasonable!!!
Just posting 'someone should do this' alone is not going to get it done. Write a business proposal and submit it to each manufacture until you find one....just do something other than post wants......that's exactly how I got into the plastic kit business......In 1983 I wrote a manufacture a proposal on a car kit.....that grew to working in the field today. Now I help pick the kits. It happens.
Oddball did more talking than action.....but at least he did do something in the end!! (seen the movie 100 times!)
Crowded with what? The same ol' same ol'! As I think someone said earlier, some manufacturers are just rehashing what they have. And, if it is not selling, I don't wonder why.
The "same ol' same ol'" *IS* selling!
That's where you're missing the boat. You think that just because *YOU* aren't buying it, that *NOBODY* is buying it and the manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot by not coming up with "new and exciting."
Yes, it costs the same to tool up for X as it does for Y. Again you missed the boat. The point is they're *NOT* tooling up, period. They're using existing molds.
Dave,
Right, we've heard from you. You don't think it can be done, so it's time for proponents to make a plea to others. How many times are you going to tell us that it can't be done by your estimation?
Also, you say Weaver, MTH, and others would be all over it if it could make a profit. That isn't necessarily true. I can tell you that sometimes the importers really do need suggestions and input from potential clients. The purpose of this thread was to start some interest and support as far as I know. Looking back I'd say injecting an absolute price point probably wasn't the best idea.
I agree, suggestions are needed by those interested...and I am interested.
Matt,
Weaver has made accurate new models the past several years. There is no reason the plea for an accurate N&W hopper should be out of the question in that light and the true reason for this thread.
Matt,
Weaver has made accurate new models the past several years. There is no reason the plea for an accurate N&W hopper should be out of the question in that light and the true reason for this thread.
Seems like that was a suggestion I made earlier but since I'm just here to stir up trouble....no one reads it!!
But with a background as a banking analyst and current hobby industry worker....what would I know!!!!
if this was poker, I'd it would time to call!
That said, I make a motion that Christopher & Dave talk to their respective folks and see if this will fly or not!
oh and Big Jim, was this another "cheese" thing when it 1st it started?
Guys, don't try and figure the cheese out! It is an inside joke!
As synonymous as the N&W is with the commodity of coal, why is there no affordable plastic steam era coal hopper available? With as many hoppers needed to make a decent size coal/empty train, this looks to me to be a no-brainer. This is something that should be a readily available item and not some high dollar limited run item. Remember that I said AFFORDABLE!
An accurate & affordable steam era N&W CF or CG class caboose is also needed.
a no-brainer
Maybe this IS the reason we haven't seen one yet.
Why folks have to come on a topic, that's asking to support getting something made, and give the same old rationale why it won't get made, is beyond me. Just give it your support instead of feeding bullets into the gun to shoot it down. If you don't want one, stay out of it.
Is this what's happened to the manufacturing in this country? Have they given up on trying to do better, offering more, always moving forward? Who's running the show these days, the plants in Asia? Are THEY dictating to the companies what will be made?
Come on folks, just give this your support, even if you don't plan on buying one 
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVE!!!
oh and Big Jim, was this another "cheese" thing when it 1st it started?
Guys, don't try and figure the cheese out! It is an inside joke!
No, this has nothing to do with cheese or being a joke of any kind.
I truly appreciate those who support my idea.
Chris may be right that my estimated price is low, but, the question posed at the time by AMCDave was "What is your idea of affordable???". To which I gave him an honest answer. Now, do I deserve his and "Brianel"s lambasting for an honest answer? That price range would be affordable. But, I didn't say $45 -$50 wouldn't be.
Now, I don't think I asked for a super detailed model. That was one purpose of this thread. To get something nice, but, not so detailed as to be way up there in the Brassosphere price range.
And let's don't forget another major point of my thread. Said item should be readily available! That means it should be available over a long period of time so that those of us that are less than millionaires can acquire the number of cars we want as our budgets allow. It should not be like so many items now are, a short run where if you don't get it now you never will, or, have to wait around another five to ten years before they are run again.
That's my Christmas wish for you model railroaders...and I'm sticking to it!
Merry Christmas,
Big Jim
I will support this effort......if you guys get them made I'll be in for 10 of them.
As for getting the group I work with into the manufacture of model trains.....believe me I bring it up.....but it's not what they do. It's like asking Mike/MTH to produce a nice 1/25 scale model of a 1958 Ford sedan......not on his radar.
But if I ever win the lottery I'll use my connections to make something model train wise!!!
OPINIONS
Picking 1955 as a good year, there were many more 70T, 3 bay hoppers than 50T, 2 bay hoppers
Atlas made a good,though immensely heavy, 50T, 2 bay. Perhaps with encouragement Atlas will run it again. Otherwise, diligence and patience will eventually provide the dedicated N&W foamer with some.
Although several folks have posited putting peaked ends on existing models, that's a lot like putting lipstick on a pig. N&W hoppers were unique: they were shorter and higher than the typical coal hopper. You can't take a typical outside-braced hopper, fiddle the ends, and declare victory as you run a string of them behind your $1000+ Y6b
I urge the begging, etc, to focus on one of the 70T, 3 bay classes.
I think Weaver is the place to go. After all, Weaver developed the B&O M53 boxcar, a far more rare car than any of the N&W hoppers.
OPINION!!
You guys have certainly given me some things to think about. I gather that if you start another "why don't they make" thread, you would be happier without guys like Dave posting. Or me - I guess I deserve the label of naysayer. Looking at all sides of an issue is often a better way of learning stuff, and I certainly learned a lot here.
On the hopper front, I did not know much about N&W hoppers. Still don't know much, but I do know I like the hopper you are trying to get built by whoever follows the dictates of these threads. I shall query Atlas about a shell - I need to get some gears from them anyway.
Best of luck chasing away the naysayers.
In the MTH RailKing O gauge line there are no TWO-bay, open-top hoppers.
That is a place to put an affordable, distinct version of a Two-Bay, open-top hopper.
Andrew
Rex,
I agree with what you say. The HL 2 bay has been and likely will be run again by Atlas. I think the 3 bay H2a or H3 would add some variety. I'm pretty sure most would back an H9 or a 3 bay given what is available.
The HL hopper seems to have at least come in an "as-built" design as well as a "rebuilt" design. Look at the end views here:
Big Jim
I have a friend that over ordered a dozen N&W 2 bay hoppers when he only wanted six. They are from MTH and include loads and die cast trucks-couplers I believe the cost is around $300 for the 6-pack. If interested please send an email to s4steve@optonline.net
Steve
From what I read here on the forums, Atlas has made an acceptable version of one type of N&W hopper in the past. I have no horse in this race, nor do I have any financial interest in Atlas, but they would be the folks I would approach were I looking to get acceptable N&W hoppers. The good news is, the tooling exists and you know what you will be getting. Maybe the price will be higher than you would like, so you might have to buy a few less cars than you would prefer, but some are better (opinion) than NONE. Maybe if ALL those of you who had interest would each E-mail Atlas and request a re-run they would respond. What do you have to lose?
Good Luck!
Simon
From what I read here on the forums, Atlas has made an acceptable version of one type of N&W hopper in the past. I have no horse in this race, nor do I have any financial interest in Atlas, but they would be the folks I would approach were I looking to get acceptable N&W hoppers. The good news is, the tooling exists and you know what you will be getting. Maybe the price will be higher than you would like, so you might have to buy a few less cars than you would prefer, but some are better (opinion) than NONE. Maybe if ALL those of you who had interest would each E-mail Atlas and request a re-run they would respond. What do you have to lose?
Good Luck!
Simon
As stated previously in various threads on this subject, those Atlas O "N&W hoppers" were diecast, and certainly NOT inexpensive.
Die cast tooling can be converted to run plastic for very little investment. When the die cast market died we did it a number of times in the plastic model field. Maybe that would work????
I believe Atlas has its share of issues getting their new factorys producing to the quality they want[remember they were 100% committed to Sanda Kan prior to that meltdown and it has taken a lot of time to get their production up to speed with new partners] just saying the likehood they would reinvent a particular model from diecast to plastic seems remote. You get what you are willing to pay for is particulary true in O scale today, those superb HO models today Exact Rail,Rapido etc. are not inexpensive by any means, we all would like to get the models we want at the least expensive pricing but lets keep these topics realistic the market is what it is today.JMHO
You get what you are willing to pay for is particulary true in O scale today, those superb HO models today Exact Rail,Rapido etc. are not inexpensive by any means, we all would like to get the models we want at the least expensive pricing but lets keep these topics realistic the market is what it is today.JMHO
That's for sure!!!! I remember going to Whistle Stop Hobbies and having Jack Parker order me 20 HO scale Model Die Casting 3 bay hopper kits (N&W BTW) and when they came in my bill???? $45 and that was list price!!!! I know that must seem like a long long time ago.....but I'm not THAT old......
Look, if the people at ATLAS O still have some control over the tooling for the N&W 2-bay hopper, they can make it in plastic for the O Scale Train Man line. That would be economical. Put modern NW schemes and C&O schemes on the car for more paint schemes.
Andrew
That one would be trivial. Brother Love could do that to a standard plastic three bay in fifteen minutes. I don't work in plastic, but I bet I could do it in two hours. Wouldn't even have to shave the rib off the original end.
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