American Freedom Train 4449, MTH or 3rd Rail

How many cars do you have? The 3rd Rail engine will pull 8 no problem. Maybe a few more but that is all I have tried with mine. The MTH engine will pull 12 21" cars no problem.

Pete

Tim,

Not sure if you just have the 17 original cars, or also have the museum car, but I'm surprised the K-line traditional sized GS4 pulled them.  That is one small but powerful locomotive.

I never purchased the K-line engine, but I have both the MTH T1 and the GS4.  Both pull all 17 of the aluminum cars but don't seem happy about it.  If you did build the other 9 cars I'm sure these engines would have trouble pulling the whole 26 car consist.

There is a way to pull all those cars and be true to the prototype.  While the real 4449 was capable of pulling this consist, it often had a diesel helper engine or two from the railroad whose tracks it was currently using.  The diesels were there to help, but mostly they were there as advertisements for the railroad.

So to answer your question, I would get the MTH engine and one or two of the many bicentennial engines MTH has made to run with it in a DCS lashup. 

I have all the K-line cars plus the museum car, that is 18 cars. I would like to add the baggage tool car. I will use a generic 18 inch K-line car as I have never found a prototypical car yet. The three flat cars with wagons and the 3 or 4 other cars that where not made. I believe they where the concession car, the entry and exit cars and I want to say another car but can't think of it off the top of my head. The layout I ran the K-line engine on has O-144 (12 foot) curves and a grade of close to 1%. It didn't want to at first but with a little coaxing and gentle throttle application it would run around and up and down the grades without messing with the throttle. It was under conventional control the whole time. My home layout should have no grades at all but the curves will be smaller but not under O-72.

I thought about the T-1 as a helper but I couldn't afford it when they where available. If one comes up in the future I can afford I would definitely consider it, I am not really much of a diesel guy though.

Tim,

The T1 and GS4 never ran together on the AFT (at least I have not read that they did).  Basically the GS4 ran in the west, the T1 in the east, and a Texas and Pacific "Texas" pulled the AFT through Texas.  A couple of BN diesels, a U30C and a SD40-2, pulled the AFT without a steamer for a short while when 4449 needed repairs.

I have run the GS4 with one of the GP-40s and it was really cool.  The two ran well together, and just like the real thing, the sound mix was great.  Plus, you can find one of those GP-40s a lot cheaper than the T1.

Tim, I am amazed the K-Line engine was able to pull all 18 cars. AFAIK all K-Line engines have the smaller Mabuchi motor. Both The 3rd Rail and MTH engines have a large Pittman and should do better. I would give the edge to MTH as it weighs more. Consider a helper though.

Pete

They were more an insurance policy than anything as none of them wanted to tie up their mains in case anything went wrong. Many railroads didn't provide helpers at all.

I've often wondered if the railroads were truly aware of the nature of the restoration of former Reading 2101 (re-numbered as freedom train # 1), as it'd been pulled from a Baltimore scrap yard and fully restored in an effort referred to aptly as, "The 30-day miracle," something which never will happen again. I have always assumed that if road foremen from some of the lines that AFT1 ran on were aware of its condition soon before the trip began, they might have insisted on diesels.

Sure, that did happen, but there are plenty of shots of the AFT with normal road units during it's 75-76 trip...

Hot Water,

My cousin, Kenneth J., wrote a couple of books on the Daylights.  In them he credited a couple of Jack's for help in putting the books together.  Are you one of them?  (NOTE: he also mentioned Allen Miller.)

I have not talked to Ken since his wife passed, but it looks like he is doing well in retirement.

Maybe, as I have assisted a bunch of projects over the 40 years I've been with the 4449 crew.

There are a couple of neat shots in Kenneth Johnsen's book, Southern Pacific Daylight Steam Locomotives, one showing the GS4 and the T1 nose to nose, and one showing the AFT going through Tehachapi, CA, with three diesels in tow.  The nose to nose shot really showed how much bigger the GS4 was.  In the Tehachapi shot, the first SP diesel is in bicentennial colors and the other two are in SP's black with red nose scheme. 

Back to Tim's (OP) original question.  There are a lot of pictures of 4449 in AFT colors with many different diesels in tow.  It would be prototypical and a cost effective way to boost pulling power.

I also Have all 18 Kline cars. The Kline engine pulls them fine on flat. I did get the MTH T1 and the GS4. They look much better that the smaller Kline engine. I have added a MTH baggage, so it is now 19 cars. I run this an or modular setups. The MTH engine pull it with no trouble at all.

Need the Aux tender.

I know that, it is just something I want. I think it looks good behind the engine.  I wish MTH would make one for the T1 it had one.

No, the former Reading T-1 did NOT have an auxiliary tender either, at that time.

Well I have seen pictures of the T1 Freedom Train with a Aux tender.

AFT Aux Tender #1A: The T-1 locomotive picked up an auxiliary water tender/tool car in the early days of the AFT. The unused coal bunker was given a roof ...

Would like to have one.  Google it

Tim my 3rd Rail GS4 pulls 14 of the GGD 21" Daylight cars without any problems. Also pulled it with my MTH PS2 GS4 without any problems. Either one should work fine.

Mine is the 3 rail version with traction tires. I would GUESS that a 2 rail version without traction tires may have some wheel slip issues, especially getting started.

Yes, it sure did:

http://freedomtrain.org/americ...01-1a-aux-tender.htm

It didn't leave Cameron Station at the very start of the trip behind 2101, but it was picked up very soon afterward.

Thanks. I stand corrected. I never witnessed the AFT #1 (Reading #2101) with an auxiliary tender.

I'm in the middle of making my third version for my Chessie Steam Special T1 - the tender I am using I picked up off the For Sale Board came from a NYC Mohawk which is prototypical.

My first version just used a Hudson Tender and the second used two Hudson Tenders I spliced together to make the correct length.

Rev 1:

Rev 2:  

Rev 3:

TBA  

Yeah, I don't get that, either. I saw a AFT dome car in a hobby shop in 3-rail once. I thought it would have been a great addition to the train (would have made a great press car) but the AFT never had one. Several r-rail cars that are marked AFT never actually existed in that paint.

Why people want to say they have a model of a specific train, then add fantasy cars, is totally beyond my comprehension.

Well, for one thing this is the Hi-Rail, O27 and Traditional 3-Rail O gauge forum, not one of the scale forums where your comments would be better placed.  I believe people here enjoy the hobby by running what they like.

I picked up the AFT tender through a deal that also got me both MTH steamers.  Since then this tender has become one of my prized possessions not only because it looks great behind the GS4 and gets a lot of favorable comments, but also because of its connection to 9-11, a day that completely changed my life.  My K-Line AFT set is not prototypical anyway since I do not have all 26 cars.

The domed AFT car is part of an MTH 8-car set where they used their standard set cars (5-car, 2-car, and dome) and I don't think MTH sold this as anything but a fantasy set.  I have this set, along with MTH's fantasy PA ABA set (well, the lead A is correct for the Freedom Train), and run this at shows.  This train is lots of fun to run and also gets many favorable comments at the shows.

I enjoy being a Hi-Railer.  While I strive for accuracy most of the time, a little fantasy once in a while keeps the hobby fun for me.

I do enjoy my trains. I bet no matter who's train room you go in you might find a Fantasy item. There are many fantasy items made every catalog.  My railroad and I run it my way.  I don't think it takes away from the Freedom Train. I don't have one yet so I haven't broken any rules yet.  You can't count rivets in Hi-Rail.

Two of my favorite engines. With the string of 19 cars what a crowd pleaser at shows.Each of these engines can pull them with ease.

Some Freedom Train action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgqy65uf-0w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NKYTmjyH5g

and a slide show with some Bicentennial diesel helpers"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NKYTmjyH5g

Mean while back at the Hall of Justice........

Tim I think if you were to put a thin layer of snot on 2 wheels (the same axle) of your 2R engine, it would improve the pulling power significantly. There are many YouTube videos of the stuff being used for N and HO stuff, not using it to replace traction tires.

I have used a lot of snot on my engines, but went back to tires, because my engines sit on the shelf when not being used. That causes horrible flat spots. If you're like Hot Water, and put the engines away when they are not being used, in some type of box and not sitting on their wheels, the snot works great.

My father took me to see the AFT at its final stop which was Miami, FL in '77. I was 11 and it made quite an impression. I could be wrong but I thought it was the GS-4 Northern that I saw. Thanks to a forum member, I'm the proud owner of an Imperial GS-4 Daylight but I'd love to someday have one in AFT colors.