An observation about train stores.

As a young guy I frequented and haunted the only hobby shop in town. The crew cut older fellow with a permanently red face would watch me as a hawk going slowly up and down each aisle armed with the deposit returns from my Dad's beer bottles. 

"Hey kid..are you gonna buy something?!"

That kind of routine challenge never deterred me from facing that smoke puffing cigar chewing dragon lurking behind the counter in the hobby shop. Nope. 

Sometimes I would go in there on a slow day just to irritate him, the truth be told.

He could see me coming and I could see the veins pop out of his neck.

Usually I could front for a rubber band propelled balsa wood airplane, or some other extravagant whim from my beer bottle franchise. 

When I was 12 or 13 (MANY moons ago!) I would ride my bike the seven miles or so

that it took to get to the hobby shop.  At the time, it would take me a month of

saving my allowance in order to afford a Lionel freight car (usually $5 to $7).  Being

able to afford only one at a time, it took me a while of standing there at the displays

to make my mind up which one.  The guy always had a wisecrack of some kind

("you again!?", or "I'm gonna charge ya rent if you keep standin' there", etc.)

Meanwhile, I remember there were always few or no other customers in that little

shop.  In a few years, he was gone and a drugstore was there.

     Hoppy

After reading everyone's comments I thought to myself, how many times have customers come into train stores with attitudes that make it hard for them to receive good customer service. If you walk in, sloppily dressed, with a bad attitude and bad hygiene, many times this will be reflected in less than stellar service. I am not saying this right, but just what I have observed over the last 40 plus years. Words like good morning, please and thank you do go a long way. Also respecting the hobby shop owner's property goes a long way too. If I want see something behind a counter or in a box, I politely ask. Again this all boils down to dimple manners and etiquette on both sides, something that is sorely lacking in our modern society.

All the best,

Miketg

& crop dusting.

Joe's Hobby Center in Farmington, MI, did this to me more than once.  While in town to see family on Saturdays my wife and I would drop by so that I could stock up on items that I couldn't get locally.  The last couple of times we did this "the locals" would be there propped up on the counter chatting with the guys running the store.  We would be standing there for a good 5-10 minutes waiting our turn so that someone could get an item for me from behind the counter.  

The final time I was in there I probably could have left with a couple hundred dollars of product had I been waited on, but obviously BSing with the locals was more important than waiting on paying customers.  After waiting for service for too long, we left, never to return.   About six months later I read that they had gone out of business, not surprisingly. 

It all goes to show the sun rises and falls in our armpits.

Southwest and Mike TG

you are spot on.

when i started to go to gun shows i saw poorly dressed , poor hygene bad breathed, poor manners from vendors as well as customers.

BUT

in the last dozen years I have seen a lot of positive changes, men, women, and children nicely dressed, polite. Dad's like me pushing baby carriages. Better food vendors and suddenly Gun shows are a lot of fun to go to. It almost has a circus atmosphere.

The fun hobbies of plastic modeling, trains, guns etc has got to figure in that it's lifeblood and future are the "youngins"". There have got to be things affordable enough for them to convince mom and dad to drop some bucks on their behalf.

Also with video game electronic tech stuff getting incredibly sophisticated the Train hobby has to do something to get and hold their attention.

Electric Trains have a magic all their own.time after time I see a kid wander over to electric train displays and spend all his time watching the trains go around a layout!!

With the Train hobby you don't have to assemble and paint. It comes out of the box and gets used right away!!!!

Anyway there are good guys and sour pusses in every hobby and sport. After awhile you know who to avoid.

Thanks for listening to me rant but I like the train hobby the best it has so much to offer not to mention the close personal connections.

I truly believe the hobby will weather this storm it appears to be in re-alignment these days, and I see a lot of new ideas on the horizon.

i.e, when I was an exchange student in Europe I really like the European steamers and diesels, with Mike at MTH coming out with Euopean TRains in O-Gauge that will really open a whole market.                             when you see what the Germans,Italians, Brits, Russians, Chinese and Japanese produced, some of it is pretty cool to lay you eyes on !!  That BR-44 Mike at MTH plans to release I have a feeling it''s going to be a winner, also one of the steamers the Bolshevik leader road around in in the movie 

Dr Zhivago with that high pitched whistle would be an eye catcher too.

Joe's wasn't always like that.  There was something going on with the developer and the rental rates.  The staff wasn't too happy with what was going on, like working with only 50% of the lights and little or no heat.  The store was SUPPOSED to move when the lost their lease but that never happened.  BTW, the store front was renovated but it's still vacant.

Allen and Pete have the right idea lets talk about the LHS we enjoy. If you want an extremely enjoyable visit I suggest Catoctin Mountain Trains in Thurmont MD. The owner there is a very knowledgeable, polite and pleasant person to deal with and his wife is also. I would recommend CMT to everyone and it is just a short driver about an hour from York so anyone heading west towards I81 or I70 should stop and check them out. You will not be disappointed. I have getting all my stuff from him since he opened the doors over 20 years ago and will continue until he closes the doors. Hopefully I can be the last customer on the last day just to say Thank You for all the wonderful times spent there.

Some shops are great towards kids others are just mean.  Bottom line, if you hurt a kids feelings or make them feel bad, you are evil.   These are not unruly teenagers hanging at the mall.  There are mostly younger kids and are there with an adult, having a great time looking at the trains and then some idiot owner makes them feel bad.  I wish for those places to go out of business.

On the catering to kids topic, I read with interest the post about the destructive pests, and supermom.  My observation is that kids nowadays are quite a bit different than those of growing up in the late 40s and 50s.  Back then we addressed every adult male "Mr. X," and if Mr. X asked us not to do something in his store, we worried about it for a day or two that he might tell our dad.   When was the last time you heard a 5 year old call you Mr. X?  Point being that it can be frustrating dealing with a lot of youngsters these days.  And I might add that by last count better than half of our high school kids live in single parent households.  Even if the parents share custody, often one of them plays Santa Claus. 

I have been in two shops that fit this discussion.  One in New Jersey and one in Pennsylvania.  Both shops I have visited more then once and both times I made purchases.  At the New Jersey store the clerk was trying to unpack a Primer Big Boy and almost dropped it on the floor.  I offered to help hold the box and he yelled at me telling me how expensive it was.  He was just a little high strung every time I visited the store.   Once while checking out the sales clerk asked if there was anything else she could do and I replied get the old guy in the train department a chill pill.  She started laughing and said he was like that all the time.  I haven't seen him the last couple times I visited the store.  The PA store the owner acts like he's doing you a favor just letting you in his store.  You can forget about asking him to see his train layout unless it's late November or December.

Anybody here ever shop for trains in Dells Pharmacy in Clark NJ ?

Now there was a place that didn't like "browsers"... miserable man !

I can't say they are my favorite chooch shop on the planet, but I get good service at Hobby Express in Cranberry, Pa.  Why?  This is a large shop with the owner, his daughters and a number of college aged kids doing the rest of the work. They also have one "train guy" who is there part time.   Both the owner and his daughters are pretty knowledgeable about most of the RR hobby, at least the part they deal in. This is especially true of the older daughter.  She probably knows more than the dedicated train guy!   This is a good experience, because I know how to make  it so !   OTOH , when I had my own store...look out...especially if you were into Nut gage!

Best not ask for the impossible, and if you need help, call or ask at a time when the place is not packed with ten thousand tire kickers! 

I think most hobby shop owners are crabby because they have to deal with the public.

The original couple that owned Engine House Hobbies were great to deal with and extremely friendly.  I stopped in again a couple of years ago and it was clearly under new ownership.  The owner was unfriendly to the point of being rude and did not at all seem interested in helping customers. I had spent a great amount of money with the previous owners as I like to support local businesses, but this new owner will never get a penny of my money!

Years ago, I was working an unordinary type of job and I was deliberately dressed with jeans, t-shirt, hair long and unshaven and it was during the summer.

I go into this famous store and not one salesman, who were not busy, asked if I needed any help.

I had to initiate the asking and I asked one salesman, how much was a particular locomotive.

His sweet reply was; "Oh!" "You couldn't afford that!"

With this type of reply, I just walked out.

About, three days later, I'm working in the same area wearing a suit, tie, shined shoes,  

haircut and clean shaven.  'Squared Away!!!!'

I go into the store, practically get jumped by two salesmen, but ask the very same salesman, the one who gave me a negative reply, how much is the same locomotive.  He gladly tells me the price, thinking and hoping that he's going to make a sale.

After, he answers me, I say; "Remember me?" "I asked you about that same locomotive and you told me that I couldn't afford it!" "Well, keep it!"

I then walked out, with him staring, wide eyed, at me.

Ralph

Plenty of online dealers or dealers at train shows to get my money.  I don't deal with knuckleheads. 

Those defending certain shops, do you ever notice if they treat all customers with the respect you get?  Or are you just relieved you're on the owner's good side?

My daughter and I went for dinner at a local restaurant when a couple came in around 8:45pm.  I'm pretty sure I heard the owner tell them to hurry up and order because they close at 9:00.  Guess how many times we've been back?!   We USED to be regular customers.   Plenty of other fine establishments that appreciate my business.

Lee Willis said,"Frankly it is common to run into people who cannot think analytically",

I have to agree with Lee , I retired after 40 years of industrial practice as a mechanical engineer specialized in heavy industrial design, stress analyst and failure analysis. Most frustrating people to work with those who butter up to the boss and do no/poor quality work(boss's pet), inability to discipline the boss's pet but being held responsible for the engineering work scheduling and project status including the boss's pet job performance, upper management who only wants to hear positive and no negative(problems) issues and non-technical people making technical decisions.

Maybe it is a trait of engineers the we think analytically, truly, if we were not analytic how would the collegiate theory be put into practice. Reflecting after retirement one day, I enjoyed my engineering career and the vast majority of people I worked with if I could start my career over I still would be an engineer. 

Talk about a double edged sword with this topic. I have been in retail for many years and have experienced rude customers that have assaulted me and great customers that made the job great. I have also been customer where I have dealt with the shop owners that were foul mouthed and even a fouler attitude. Of course while reading this thread I also have seen posters state that the reason for all the bad attitudes is that we the customers do not buy from them so it is our fault. Really?

Here is where we are in this hobby:

1. We all need to be better examples of people that are enjoying something that we love to do because it relaxes us and provides a change from our everyday life.

2. While children are the future I feel we forget about their parents who I feel have forgotten that thy can have a hobby versus trying to keep up with their neighbors in life. We as a society seemed to have forgotten to have fun in making and creating things for ourselves.

3. If you are worried about getting the cheapest price or not getting "ripped off" you will surely lose. You can always find a cheaper price after you have bought something or that you "paid too much" you will find what you are looking for....so stop looking so hard and just live with your decisions.

4. If hobby shops want to stay in business then run a better business. Never blame your customer, ever. Set rules for the ones that are not pleasant and cater to everyone else. Once you do not want to run a business then go, but do not blame the customer for your failure.

5. All of the best train enthusiasts that I have met have never worried about their "investments" or the money spent because they were happy with the majority of their decisions and always promoted the fun of our hobby. That is my goal and while there are days that I do not do so well, I know I can do better.

Just my observations and opinions.

A long, long, time ago, shortly after the earth cooled and I was young, there was a train shop in my home town that was owned by a gentleman renowned for his grumpiness.

He really did not seem to like customers, unless you were one of his small band of cronies. When a new customer walked in, they would be met with a scowl as he grumbled away behind the counter. If anyone walked in with a young child, they would receive a scowl that could ignite paper at 50 paces.

All around the shop were little hand written signs, such as 'Browsing: An activity for sheep and cows in a field. This is a shop!'.  Behind the cash register was a large sign reading 'Our easy payment terms: 100% down, nothing else to pay!'.

It really was a unique place to shop. 

I'm just blessed: as I said I seem to run into only pleasant and helpful people at train stores, never someone like you Nicole.  Now, French restaurants are another thing . . . but train stores?  Nearly always good experiences like I said above.

I won't go into too much detail; it isn't good to talk about the dead. BUT, I was allowed to walk out of a LHS with 10 hundred dollar bills neatly folded in my pocket because the list of FasTrack in my wasn't "worth the bother" to special order. I didn't know it at the time, but he was fighting a terminal disease. He was sick and I didn't know it. I took it personal at the time, and it wasn't.

Gilly

quote:

Years ago, I was working an unordinary type of job and I was deliberately dressed with jeans, t-shirt, hair long and unshaven and it was during the summer.

I go into this famous store and not one salesman, who were not busy, asked if I needed any help.

I had to initiate the asking and I asked one salesman, how much was a particular locomotive.

His sweet reply was; "Oh!" "You couldn't afford that!"

A smart salesman knows better than to judge a customer by their dress. Stories abound about people with deep pockets being treated poorly because of how they were dressed.
Maybe it's unique to my area, I'd guess that most well off folks around here do not worry about what they are wearing or whether they have shaved before going to a hobby shop.

The LHS's on Long Island are all well managed and for the most part customer oriented. Cant say I ever had a bad experience. Additionally I look at this from a York perspective and cant say I ever met a grumpy dealer.

Steve

Train stores are owned and operated by individuals with individual personalities.  The consumer market is made up of individuals with individual personalities.  Sometimes the two don't mesh very well.

When I see threads about perceived and/or real problems with individuals, dealers, manufacturers, shippers, prices, release dates, buy/sell transactions, equipment, etc., on this and other forums, I just count my blessings and consider myself extremely lucky.  With very few exceptions, and after nearly 40 of my adult years back in this hobby, I have experienced very few of those types of problems in this or other scales I've been involved with.  And that's not too terribly shabby for a self-proclaimed curmudgeon.  

I've found Mohawk Valley Railroad in Rotterdam NY to be a great place to shop, the staff is friendly and there when you need them.  It's well stocked and I really don't have a need to order on line any more.  The new owner is young compared to me and I hope he'll be there for many a yr.

Nicole, one the best stories I ever read on this forum from beginning to end.

Jack

I have been to both types of stores, all over. The best store was Davis Trains in Cincinnati, I loved that place and Joe Davis was a sweetheart! Trading Post, Charles Ro, Nassau Hobbies, Willis Hobbies, Gryzboski(sp?) are all GREAT stores with excellent employees. On the other hand , when I have gone to other stores where I am not even looked at, I walk out, simple as that. That nut job on 45th St in Manhattan, for example. I work part-time at Toms Trains in Ardsley, again good store, and Tom asked me to help as I am young with young kids. I know how to talk to Mom's and they buy a lot of trains! Yes, the layout entertains but that it part of the business. You have to talk the good with the bad.

I have seen some hobby shops become really creative like having a Cappochino/Expresso maker  and sodas for sale it's great!!!!

One hobby shop that used to be in Skokie, Illinois had a couple tables and chairs set up so customers could come in and chit-chat. It was a friendly atmosphere TONS of free advice and help about making a purchase.

It has happened to me countless times where "customers in the Know" share information about a product and I end up buying it!!!!

Interesting thread.  And yes there are all kinds of owners and shops.

I can name two really good shops I frequent - Barry's in Elizabethtown, PA and Cool Trains in Salunga, PA.  Both owners work at good customer service, great selection, and helping their customers.

There are also two other stores in the area that I don't frequent.  One is a cancer ward because the owner chain smokes (nice guy, but I can't stay in shop more than 15 seconds).  He's killing himself and his business.  The inventory needs fumigation.  The other is an interesting, large shop but the owner insists on following you around while you browse.  I might have found some items I want, but didn't get the space.

I know it's a tough retail market.  Hobby stores are a mixed bag, like everything else.  The market has a way of sorting things out.

George

Anything within driving distance ?  I'm sure they would appreciate the business.

_________________________________________________________\

Originally Posted by M1FredQ:

 

I have seen some hobby shops become really creative like having a Cappochino/Expresso maker

Unfortunately I think the future for brick & mortar train shops will require the gimmicks and be located in high traffic areas.  Perhaps they can do a massage parlor and or a hair salon, maybe even borrow the shoe shiners from the local truck stops.

Over the pass summer in my area we had a high profile case of a gal who own a dance/zumba exercise studio running a bordello in the back room.

Talk about being creative.

This tread questioning why seemingly a fair number of train shops are owned / run by unhappy proprietors who tend to be less than customer service oriented, brought up a theme which I've read on this form for several years -- somehow it is the fault of the internet, customers who want the lowest price, and who then expect the train shop to service items which the customer did not purchase there.

To these points here are my two cents, as business owner myself and someone who as changed and adapted to a changing business environment, with a high degree of success:

Internet:

Any business owner in 2014 who does not use the web to reach customers is heading towards failure, period. Without a good, functional web site, younger buyer are not shopping with you. I would liken this to those that protested and resisted doing such common practices today, as having a phone, having an add in the Yellow Pages, or accepting credit cards -- think back to the 70's and 80's when many small businesses did not take credit cards, my parents store only took "Master Charge," for a number of years. The business environment changes and adaptation is the key.

Low Price Shopper:

Who shops at store who uses the tag line "Why Pay Less?" No one. Everyone wants to conserve their hard earned money, the same shop owner who bemoans the shopper looking for the best price, does the same thing him or her self on their stores rent, utility costs, staffing costs, and wholesale cost of good. I've not yet meet a business owner (I've done a great deal of wholesale sales in my own business)who says "Let me pay full list price for this," they always seek a discount.

It is true that the internet makes this easier for the shopper to, well, shop -- to get the lowest price. However, if someone has been into their retail store, spoken with them, had demo of the product, been treated warmly and had a good experience, and been offered the product in question at a competitive price, how likely are they to price shop over a couple percent difference, consumer research shows not likely. That same research shows that when a customer enters are retail store they are looking to buy the product, if they are not meet with a warm happy face (a personal interaction) or if the pricing is out of line with their expectation (meaning they have done some online research already, which most buyers do by the way) they are far more likely to "Show Room" the store -- test the product, try it out, ask a million questions, etc. then leave to buy it online. This gets to the original threads point, if the interaction at the store is cold, unhappy, grumpy, etc., then the customers are far less likely to purchase their.

The Service Department:

I have never, ever, had a service department at a car dealership ever complain that I did not purchase my car from then. Yet, this is seemingly a huge deal in the trains shops of America -- why? I am missing something here, the auto dealership gets about $75.00 an hour, plus parts, plus, plus, plus, to do service work on my car, as a consumer why would I expect anything less from my train service center. Yes their maybe some warranty work, but that gives them the opportunity to earn my future business, gets me in their store, allows them to show me through great customer service why I should buy from them future forward. All non-warranty work is billed at profitable rate, just like the auto dealership, the service center becomes a profit center to the store.

There is a shop within driving distance. I have bought many items there in the past. They used to provide excellent service and I did not mind paying their higher than what I pay now prices.(I used to be on their side of the counter). The last several years you are lucky to get a greeting walking in the door and the guys in the O-Gauge section act as if you are bothering them and they have to leave their conversation with their buddies about the politics at the train museum across the street to help you. Like I said I will pay extra for good service but I refuse to reward poor service.

I hear ya Brian.

I hope some shop owners have tuned into this thread.  Because they are no longer the only game in town so to speak.

I mention earlier about the drive thinking what a neat day to make of it with the family even stopping off somewhere for lunch afterwards or before you know what I mean.

Here is an observation no one has touch on here.

If you are going into the hobby train business to make a fortune you are going into the wrong business.

Secondly, a good many want to turn their passions into a business, but what many lack are 'people skills' and in the model train shop it is absolutely imperative you have them, or hire someone who does if you can afford to.

Passion & People skills in this business are inseparable.

And the retail end of it comparatively easy compared to some retail business's who deal some real low lives.  As an example I once worked as a merchandiser for a well known chain of business's in this country, and in certain States we hired off-duty police in the evening because of threat of bodily injury.

People going into a train shop are not your average going into some of the retail places I have been involved with in my life.  So that dealing with the public in my view is a piece of cake.

On the positive side, a wonderful shop as mentioned much earlier in this thread is Side Track Hobbies in Leonardtown, MD. All of the times I have been there I have been warmly greeted. When I go, I usually spend 2-3 HOURS in their store browsing their huge inventory without feeling pressured, without being watched, and without feeling unwelcome. When I need a question answered they do so in a friendly manner. In fact, when I was replacing my layout track from MTH's to Atlas a few years back, they had the room and ALLOWED me to make a rough set-up of a 13' by 6' layout on their floor in the back so that I could get a good estimate of what I needed to purchase. No one bothered me and no one stopped me. When I finished, I re-boxed the track I needed and made my purchase. (In fact, I ended up going over budget and spending about $900 between the track and a nice low-priced engine I saw.) And Jim Sutter's place WAS a friendly, patient, and helpful dealership as well until he retired.  

I commented a while back on a similar thread and was in the minority because I haven't drank the cool-aid that says I should cater to the poor hobby shop owner.  In short, I think it's a generational thing. As a very broad generalization, it seems to me the older folks think it's our duty to frequent our LHS and be good clients to them, regardless of the fact that we are now better educated and live in a capitalistic society, allowing us options to do better with the same dollar. The younger generation (again, generalizing) is looking for better service and prices because they understand they are spending their hard-earned money and business must be earned.  On a personal note, my LHS in Manchester CT is run by a guy who I've found to be a pressure sales guy that doesn't really care about your needs, he just tries to sell you at all times. I once asked him for minimum height clearance and he was trying to stuff an MTH trestle set in my hands to buy. And, he charges full MSRP for everything, no matter if you buy $1 or $1,000 of stuff and regardless of whether you buy stuff once a year or every day.  I purposely drive 35 minutes to Amato's in Middletown because the gentleman there (Dale) knows his stuff and is happy to help even if it's not going to result in a sale today. Basic forward thinking - if I'm in his store, buying track or whatever, I am a hobbyist so I will be spending money. its just a matter of when and with whom. 

I guess I am very lucky to have 2 very nice LHS outside Atlanta.  Legacy Station has always been friendly and every one of their staff is very helpful and knowledegable and all have a good attitude.  I've seen 1 of the staff spent a 1/2 hr or more explaining basic setup and such on a starter set.  I bet that customer comes back for more items in the future.

The other is Memory station.  Same as Legacy, friendly, knowledegable, great attitude.

I just wish I had more mobility and could make the trips but if you are in the Atlanta don't miss these folks, you won't be disappointed.

My nephew who lives outside Syracuse has the other problem.  Store has lots of inventory but seems like they could care less if you do or don't buy anything.

As already stated, LHS owners and customers all have their own personalities.  Sometimes you run into one that is not so appealing.

ed

Being primarily interested in postwar and having lots of experience with train shows and eBay, there's almost no reason or need I can imagine to make me go into a train shop anymore. If I want something modern, I shop on line - usually Chas Ro. Beyond that, the Allentown and York meets take care of the balance of my needs.

I have to say that I'm spoiled. I live on Long Island, and have three outstanding shops within a twenty minute drive. I grew up two blocks away from one of them, and used to go there almost every Saturday to spend my allowance on a model, etc. I was always treated well even as a kid. That shop is still in business forty years later. Nothing succeeds like success. 

Andy