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Here is another idea/design I am looking at, I decided to expand the room to being deeper, and hopefully gain more track room.  The 2 gray squares are columns in the basement.  The width of the room L-R is 26'  I have this where I have 30" on each side for access.  The depth of the room is 22' so the track edge is about 18' now, leaving 4 foot on the end wall for access and to have rolling stock on the walls for display.  The doorway will be between the columns on the end wall, bottom of the picture.  Curves are 80, inner loop 72 and the smaller dogbone is 54.  Just playing with the setup, need to get a layout figured out here in the next few weeks, as basement walls are going to be going up.  Right now its a wide open slate.  Only thing I cant change is the width of 26 foot. 

Let me know what you think, or better idea.  This is all flat at the moment, would not mind some elevation if feesable.  I also, would like to go away from having to go under the tracks at the bottom, after walking into the room, but not sure how to make that happen well, without eating up a lot of room.  Open to any and all ideas,

Thanks

Garry

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  • Large Room Setup
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Garry, I agree with Ken about access via a lift up bridge.  I have 2 on my 11' x 8' layout.  Where would you be situated when running trains?  Would you be putting pop up access holes in the lobes? 

On to the track itself.  You have two opposing loopbacks so you can reverse direction of trains and then reverse back to the original direction.  I like that.  Will the loop that doesn't connect to the rest of the tracks be used for some special train or trolley, or is it just so any train can run continuously while you run another through the different routes on the rest of the layout? 

I think it is a good start for sure.  Hopefully others with more imagination than me can give you more ideas. 

I definitely recommend the addition of a yard (with an appropriate yard lead, that allows doubling a cut of cars from one track to another without fouling the main lines!)  However... your latest design doesn't allow for comfortable reach to the yard area.

Another issue, a yard in the depicted location is not accessible.  3-rail O gauge couplers can't ever be expected to work properly.  You have a huge space to work with, so don't be stingy about creating aisle(s) for the operators to stand in.  My $.02.

Last edited by Ted S

On your first design I was going to suggest that the stand alone dog bone be raised up as part of a mountain scene to provide that elevation aspect. But, with the revision you’ve connected the inner most route so I have two new thoughts.
1. Disconnect the inner loop, raise it and put a mountain in the middle. This breaks up the viewer’s line of sight making the layout seems bigger, more interesting and would allow for possible tunnels for the lower loops as well as the raised loop. Hiding the trains from sight really adds to an engaging layout.
2. Second option is to leave all loops on the same level and connect the inner loop as shown by the red line in the attached pic. You could also add other track features to the line such as sidings. This would enable easy operation of three trains at once. IMG_0965

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Last edited by bigtruckpete

Without a yard lead track, you won't be able to switch at the same time you are running on the outer loop.

Also, consider changing one of the reversing cutoff tracks to connect with the outer loop instead of the middle loop; perhaps the one at right. It creates the option of a much longer mainline run without traversing the same track in the same direction twice.

Thanks Ken, I understand what you are saying on yard lead. I'll try and figure out how to connect reversing loop to outer track.

First layout ill be doing, so appreciate everyone's comments so far.  I kinda think I'm waisting space? But not sure how to go about it differently. 

Edward G, thanks for sharing the layout references. I looked them all up.  Only thing I see w those, I need min 72 curves for several of my trains, 21" cars, bigboy etc.  But, it gives me some layout ideas to consider.  Much appreciated.

Bigtruck, appreciate your comments as well, where you drew the red line, is where my projected doorway is planned to be, only reason I connected the loop down like that was to make it easier to take a removable bridge out. 

I like your idea on the mountain upper loop, need to figure out how to do that, I'm learning as I go.  Thanks!

Some additional thoughts:

If the outer loop is the mountain one, it will block your view of the inner ones. Raised loops are often inside ones.

Consider easing the racetrack shape by replacing the straightaways with gentle flex track curves.

Small grades add visual interest even if they aren't steep enough to get one track over another. Woodland Scenics makes foam ramps that make them easy even for beginners.

Begin to think about the scenes you want, and whether you have planned room for the scenery.  For example, are the parallel tracks going to be treated as double track, or do you want them to appear as separate single track lines? You've got a mountain going above the tracks; how about scenic elements like rivers or valleys that will dip below track level?

Well, here is another revision, switched it up some to try and get a longer switcher track lead, double reversing loops, got away from having bridge at the doorway/entry.  The gray areas are walkways, 30", doorway would be open, just not grayed out for picture clarity.  Would have access into the double loop areas, as well as reversing loops.  At least this way, with kids, etc, I dont have to worry about ducking under, removing a bridge etc to access the layout. 

Also thought about doing an elevated loop above the double reversing loops, just for some added fun.  We have several RTR passenger sets, etc that can run up there, or if you have better thoughts, ideas. 

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Getting rid of the duck under/drawbridge is a big plus, you have a variety of routings due to the many pairs of crossovers, the yard lead is great, and you can reverse in both directions. These assets have come at a price, however. The late John Armstrong would call this a 4-blob layout due to the two reversing loops and the two turn back curves on either side of the door. He hated blobs to such a degree that he subtracted them from the layout area. Blobs take a lot of real estate, generally have poor access, and don't look realistic unless you are modeling Tehachapi loop. His typical approach to reversing loops was to stack other tracks on top. He might have had three levels on the right hand blob--two reversing loops hidden on top of each other with a scenicked turn back curve on top. The left blob would then have had two interlaced turn back curves, on different levels. The main line would begin at the lowest reversing loop, turn back on the lower turn back curve in the left blob, return to the right blob at the highest level around the turn back curve, return to the higher level turnback curve on the left side, then end in the middle reversing loop on the right side. In between there would be four passes of the main line. This would give a very long main line run. Some crossovers would allow for continuous running on a portion of the run.  Appearance, access, and length of main line run would all be vastly improved; construction would be more challenging, and you'd have to plan for access to the hidden reversing loops.

Ken, thanks for the feedback, I agree, I wasn't happy with the "blobs"  Waste of space in the middle.  I removed that, and added reversing loops on the sides, will have to travel a bit more on the outer loop if needed, but that's the fun in it I suppose.

I have a lot of John Deere stuff, so mainly going to be some farm ground, tractors, barns, houses, some menards cripple creek stuff.

Need to figure what to do with the big open middle section now.  Maybe an isolated elevated loop?  Could have bridges up there.  I am planning on a backdrop on the wall, mountain scene, then breaking into the plains, where the track is layed.  Much like going through Colorado, up the I-25 corridor, Montana etc,  Mountains breaking into the plains, and wheat fields, farming etc.

Thanks

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  • Master Extended room rev1
Last edited by Gpower

A turntable and roundhouse would be a showpiece in that center space. Not very convenient to the yard, but nice to be viewable on 3 sides, especially if the turntable was at the room entry end with the roundhouse behind it. That layout could provide space on the leads for water, coal, and sand.

Have you considered altering the layout to an around the room style, allowing easy access to the inside of the layout, which makes most of the track easy to reach from the internal walkway. You would simply eliminate the left, top and right walkways, moving the bench work to the walls, thus creating space for an isle in the center of the layout.

If you add the lift out or drawbridge section at the entrance to the layout (bottom center of your diagram), you could have continuous running without always needing to use the dogbones to reverse the trains.

An around the room layout would then make it possible to add a second level, so you would have a twice around the room main line. The second level would not have to be scenically connected to the lower layout and could be limited to one or two tracks wide, keeping it well back of the lower layout. Adding some string lights under the upper layout table eliminates shadows. IMG_0082

IMG_0083

The above pictures show bottom level track before buildings were added (buildings were stored on the second level at the time this picture was taken). Buildings on the top track are generally building fronts, allowing the top table to between 6" and 12" wide.

lift up bridge to access the center of the layout is at the bottom right of the second picture.

While imagining the possibilities, you might want to consider this very common, large room layout design option. It is very important to be able to reach all of the track, allowing a maximum of about 2-1/2' of "reach in" to fix derailments and build/maintain the layout. I have a few "reaches" that are longer, however you have to allow a place to place one hand while stretching to reach the 3' from the isle track. This is typically found on corners, where you can place a scene in the little triangle of space between the corner walls and the curved track.

Enjoy your design phase of this great hobby!

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Getting back to the design, Joe, I went ahead and did an around the room style, I wanted to get away from a bridge setup at the doorway, but really no good way to go about it, without eating up a lot of real estate.  Drew this up today, still needs some tweaking, but thought I would share what I have done at this point.  Not sure if a 90 degree rolling stock rail yard is a 100% good idea, its all O-72 curves, but pushing, etc. cars, maybe it will be ok.

The island, the 4 way, possible engine house there.  The reversing loop is in there, and place for cattle cars, loading chutes etc.

We are more into farming, plains type stuff, would like the back wall to be more mountain type rails, w some elevation. 

Anyhow, let me know what y'all think of this.  Ill have to nail down the walls here before long, as framing is going to start taking place on perimeter walls.

Thanks

Garry

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  • Master Extended room Rev2

I have included some pictures of my two level walk thru, with a lift bridge on the top and a swing bridge (like a door) on the bottom. I used 1/4"x1/4" and 1/4"x1/2" cut lengths of pine with wood glue to make the bridges. They are based on real bridges (from a book on modelling bridges) and are very sturdy, (no metal supports needed).

14 Apr 10 00214 Apr 10 00414 Apr 10 005

14 Apr 10 008

I hope this helps. These bridges are the centrepiece of my layout and were really fun to build and install. You can take any bridge design that you like, compress it slightly as layout scale spans are often much less than real spans. this compression makes the bridges even stronger.

I later added lightweight foam "rock" faces to the bridges, so they blend and become part of the general scenery.

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Your new around the room layout looks quite functional for person access to the track. A yard around a corner is prototypical of yards in mountain areas.

You could add more rail spurs to service industries in the corners and along the walls. The industries would be building fronts, to conserve space. Industries along the front of the layout are great, however you have to be mindful of the space they take up so you can still easily reach over the buildings to service the tracks.IMG_0160IMG_0181IMG_0189

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This plan is down to one blob, which is okay--how else to use the middle of the room?  A few observations:  If you plan to do much switching of the long 4-track yard, your inner main will be fouled. On either of the around the room loops, you cannot follow closely with your train the whole way, but have to detour around the central peninsula each circuit. I switch passenger cars on an O-72 lead (and curved leg of switches). It works most of the time, but I've also had plenty of derailments shoving cuts into the yard tracks--and my yard body tracks slope down slightly. There's probably a better way of handling the freight yard, but I don't have any ideas just now. Finally, the gap on the side of the peninsula with the two support posts seems excessive. You have an opportunity to use more of the center space in the room for layout.

Thanks Ken, do one thing to note on your comment about excessive gap between columns and peninsula, I am planning an upper ceiling loop there.  An around the room 2 track loop. I thought it be good to have floor space there/ladder if needed.  The floor joint beam runs across there, the 2 columns support the beam, which comes down 12" across the span.  Thought it be easy to incorporate a track up higher there, my ceiling is 90" from floor. 



I'm not sold on the track yard just yet, I moved it to the inside for ease of use, getting to cars etc.  I'd rather have long straight runs, but limited.  Or maybe make the peninsula the yard w engine house.  It's hard to know what to do.  Never having/running a layout, i don't know what works well, and what doesn't.  It is enjoyable working the design. 

I'm not 100% happy with the inner loop connections to the middle loop either, it looks clunky to me.  But I'm trying to maintain a 6" center to center space between rails, as i have some schneabel cars, that run O72 min, as well as several 21" passenger cars. 

There is still real estate left around, ill keep thinking.



Thanks

Thank you for the photographs of your room.  That will be a nice space to work with.  I just have thin metal wipers that I butchered out of Atlas rail joiners that touch the stationary rail to power the bridges when down.  Extremely simple.  After 2 or 3 years, I haven’t had any trouble.  Limit switches kill power on the stationary tracks when the bridges are not down.

Joe, 

I have considered that, and agree it would add to the basement appeal.  My thought also was, when younger kids, etc come to the house, to have it where if playing in the basement, other areas etc, I could close it off and then it would be a little more protected.  My thoughts are to have a set of sliding doors, and painted to look like a boxcar on that wall, the sliding doors open up and into the train room.

Well, here is todays revision.  Moved the railyard out again, just seems less cluttered that way, and I used O-96 curves for the rail yard 90 degree curves, to hopefully help with pushing cars in etc.  The outer loop connects both ends of the rail yard, so to eliminate inner curve blockage, when moving cars around etc.  2 inner continues loops, with multiple Y's to jump over, and back between loops as needed.  Decided to move the peninsula to the top, incorporating the double reversing loops, adding a 2 track pull through engine house, with outer 2 rails for parked loco's.  Reversing loops eat up a lot of space, needing to maintain O-72 min curves for the loco's I have.

Tried putting in some 0-42 loops/spurs at the top of the reversing loops, as that area is about 8 foot by 7 foot open on each side.  Cant really do a loop, as then your walkway would be about 16 inches on each side for access. 

Any ideas on those areas?

GP

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GP, I see a tendency to design symmetrically.  I like things symmetrical as well.  My artist daughter would steer me away from that.  Right brain/left brain thing I guess.  I forget which is which. 

I like the yard out where you have it now much better.  In my 11 x 11 train room, I totally gave up on the idea to have reversing loops.  I did cram a tight wye into a corner to turn engines, which I hardly ever do.  Yes the returning loops do take up a lot of space!

Do you really need 2 reversing loops? Operationally, one is enough. Reducing to 1 rev loop will give you more isle space, which you will appreciate, as 30" is really a minimum for comfort. 24" is OK for a 1 person on a dead end, if nothing else is possible. Keep in mind that you may want to have an operating session with 2 or 3 people, so you will need some space to "pass" with dignity.

The space created from removing 1 reversing loop will give you more space for industries. Remember, switching is what all that track is there for, to deliver goods to your customers.

I find continuous running is what is used when having visitors over, watching trains and have a beverage before dinner. Switching is the puzzle of how to get cars to and from the industry siding from different parts of the train. You may also want to have some "run around" capability near your major industrial areas.

A single reversing loop works for both directions if connected to the inner loop via a wye.

If it were my layout, I would look for a way to get the two inners circuits to travel around the edge of the central peninsula, instead of behind it.  The ability to follow your train with your remote in hand is a huge plus.

Is your thinking about the long 4-track yard a passenger station, freight yard, or something else?

Thanks Joe, I get ocd bad...lol.



Ken, the railyard, just parking cars, ive got a lot of rolling stock, yes it could go on the wall too as display.  Would be a freight yard, coal cars etc.  I've got a lot of passenger cars too.  I can delete a loop, and add a Y. 



You ever get crossed eyed trying to do layouts....lol.  and man it consumes you and your time.  I probably should just walk away a while.  Need to focus on more important things, family, church, etc.  Not that I'm upset about any of this, but at the end of the day, you gotta set some limits!  I do enjoy it, I'm getting pretty good at using anyrail and doing things. 



GP


Using a yard as a parking lot only is a waste, IMO, unless it's a staging yard. My through yard has 4 double-ended tracks and 3 single-ended. I treat it as a combined division point yard and passenger station. Operationally, it represents Cumberland Maryland on the B&O--physically, it is somewhat like B&O's Williams Street yard there. It sees 12 passenger trains and 15 freights each "day." Most of the passenger trains just stop, but a few drop or pick up mail, express, or food service cars. Most of the freights have blocks to set out, pickup, or both. Two of the freights originate on the stub tracks, one terminates. All these are based on real B&O practice--1949-50 for passenger, 1951 for freight. One track is the main, one a passing siding, the other two doubled-ended I call the arrival/departure yard, and the three single-ended are freight classification--except the two freights that originate there depart directly from those tracks. This route switching is a great deal of fun and gives purpose to the layout.

I do have a single-ended terminal yard, half freight, half passenger. The freight side is strictly staging--I do no terminal switching of freight trains. On the passenger side, I make up passenger trains with the exact types of cars in the exact order the B&O did in 1949-50.

BTW, I support the idea of creating several options, and then letting it go for a bit. I find sleeping on things and coming back to them very helpful.

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