As promised, Lionel announces the first of the US Made LionScale Freight Car Sets

Thanks Mr Muffin, just ordered a set.   Less than $45 per car with preorder price, free shipping, made in America.   Wow, what a deal!

I ordered the 3-bay offset hopper ATSF 6-pack.

That is more like what I was thinking of getting several years ago.

The D&RGW PS-2-CD covered hoppers are 4740 not 4427 as shown on the model in the photo.

They omitted a few of the notices on the side.

They did get the road number series correct for the Rio Grande covered hoppers. There used to be a large number of Rio Grande Pullman-Standard covered hoppers on the GTW until 2006, so I have to order this set.

Andrew 

Somebody will sell single cars.

This looks like the first batch from the Weaver tooling. Good to see it being put back into use.

Steve:

Any idea what's in the 2-rail conversion kit. It says case of 12 but the numbers don't add up for axles (24) and the price is two low for a dozen trucks.

They did not do the scheme of the Milwaukee Road 4740 Cu Ft PS-2-CD 3-bay covered hopper that are yellow with the "America's Resourceful Railroad" logo on a signplate. That keeps me from ordering them.

Andrew

Grampstrains posted:

I guess buy a single car is out of the question?

falconservice posted:

Somebody will sell single cars.

Possibly they will sell a single car, probably all the dealers will buy a ton of sets and break up sets. Hopefully they will make different cars because I am not that must interested in the current selection.

falconservice posted:

They did not do the scheme of the Milwaukee Road 4740 Cu Ft PS-2-CD 3-bay covered hopper that are yellow with the "America's Resourceful Railroad" logo on a signplate. That keeps me from ordering them.

Andrew

I would have much preferred that, too. It would also have been nice if they'd done the coal hoppers in N&W - I think those would be good sellers. Probably be in the next run.

Personally I have no interest in 6-car sets, other than maybe N&W hoppers. It's good that singles will be readily available. Also am looking forward to separate-sale diecast trucks being made for Weaver cars to replace the plastic ones. Those were virtually impossible to find the last few years Weaver was in business.

Will they have weaver weight to them to? I've always hated Weaver cars for their insanely light weight. Can't see very many people going for full 6 packs in most of those roads. Might have been he smarter move to make mixed freight sets 

I like waver body details.  However, the lightness is a concern.

Matt Makens posted:

Will they have weaver weight to them to? I've always hated Weaver cars for their insanely light weight. ake mixed freight sets 

They were light, particularly with the plastic trucks. Adding d/c trucks helped, and these new cars will have those. I guess an admission of the light weight was that Weaver made separate-sale metal plates to glue into the bottom of their cars to get proper weight. 

what is lionscale?

I know Lionel re-engineered the floors for the RPO's etc, I will ask about these. The Weaver cars were certainly lighter than say a similar car from MTH.

We have the single cars on our website for ordering.

I have to get the Chessie C&O 9-panel, three-bay, open-top hoppers, because there have not been many Chessie System THREE-bay. open-top hoppers made.

Andrew

I had all 12 Weaver Ultra Line Chessie System (B&O) and all 6 Chessie System (WM) 70-ton, 9-panel, 3-bay hoppers at one time. I had drop-in coal loads for all 18 which gave them considerable weight to go along with the die-cast trucks. These 6 Lionel LionScale Chessie System (C&O) hoppers would've made for 2 dozen if it wasn't for me selling off my Weaver hoppers a few years ago.

I have 2 Atlas Trainman Chessie System (C&O) and 2 Chessie System (WM) 70-ton, 9-panel, 3-bay hoppers which have better detail than the Weaver hoppers and that is why I sold my Weavers. I'll pass on these as well and wait for Atlas to do another run of Chessie System hoppers with B&O reporting marks.

If Lionel, Atlas or MTH ever does a run of Chessie System 90 or 100-ton, 12-panel, 3-bay hoppers then I will definitely be interested.

Lionel produced a plastic body Three-bay, open-top hopper over 20 years ago. They made Chesapeake & Ohio and Western Maryland, but not Chessie System B&O, C&O, WM.

Lionel had a die-cast metal body Three-bay, open-top hopper made several years ago. Instead of making Chessie System B&O, C&O,  WM they had the Norfolk Southern Heritage Series produced.

I guess I will get these instead of stripping and repainting all the NS three-bay, open-top hoppers in clearance sales.

Andrew

And for those who said there would never be model trains manufactured in the USA again.....

Most of Weavers' stuff was made in PA before they closed!

Yes Dominic M, but Beth from Public Delivery Track supposedly purchased the remaining prebuilt inventory.

My MTH SD-70ace will pull these cars in supplying coal to the Menards Power and Light.

So, are these going to have roller bearing trucks like they are SUPPOSED TO? The pics are all bettendorfs.

Fred

Here's the message I got back from Mike Reagan this morning:

"Every car includes weight mounted to the frame along with a new die-cast truck that allows easy removal of the 3-rail coupler as well as easy conversion to 2-rail.

 We created a new truck to ensure these cars track properly down the rails and do not wobble."

Thanks

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Here's the message I got back from Mike Reagan this morning:

"Every car includes weight mounted to the frame along with a new die-cast truck that allows easy removal of the 3-rail coupler as well as easy conversion to 2-rail.

 We created a new truck to ensure these cars track properly down the rails and do not wobble."

Thanks

Steve, thanks as always for trying to answer our questions, and providing us with very useful information.  Much appreciated!  Sounds like these "new" Lionel (former-Weaver) cars will provide a good value for the $$...a nice balance of details vs. price!  And I'm glad to see you will be offering them for separate sale.

Although there's nothing in this first run on my "wish list", I'm really looking forward to future releases...and hopefully the eventual release of Lionel's newly-created, die-cast 3-rail truck for separate-sale.

Would these scale  coal cars be oversized for a lionmaster sized engines?  I've been looking at the MTH multipacks,  but also like the looks and price of this option. 

Good Morning Steve, Thanks for the notification. My email has changed, Larrylevin71@yahoo.com.  Please discontinue using my older email, Llevin64@yahoo.....Thank you. I will come to your nice store in the next few months....Leapin Larry

Steve, if you would be willing... I'd be interested to hear a dealer ask someone from Lionel as to the logic behind the pricing of these new scale products. Given the $55 list (typical discount $38) for the plastic truck starter set cars and anywhere from $65-$85 for the same kind of cars only with die cast trucks, I just don't understand.

I understand list price is not always the consumer cost, but the list price does determine the discount because the wholesale discount usually works off a percentage of the list. I know Lionel has made changes in their wholesale pricing structure, as well as introducing MAP pricing.

Lionel (and others like MTH) have always maintained that US mainland production will necessitate much higher list prices, which I can understand. The other typical traditional types of US made rolling stock are around $85 list. These new Weaver based LionScale cars are more complex in assembly and production than most traditional cars. I would imagine that the pad printing costs are higher as these cars are more detailed that the typical traditional car.

And there is no recent tooling purchase cost. Plus whatever costs there are for the die cast trucks and any alterations that may have been made to the trucks or tooling to accommodate the scale 2-rail couplers and trucks. Plus the investment cost of physical production at Lionel headquarters.

The only explanation I could offer as a stab in the dark, is that these cars are priced at an introductory cost as this is a new product line, and that prices will be going up next year.

I know I am not the only one wondering why a USA made traditional box car with die cast trucks and sheet metal floor lists for $85 (plastic trucks and frame for $55 made overseas) and these new LionScale cars are $55 made in the USA????

I thought I heard someone from Lionel say that for the first time, sales of traditional cars have fallen to scale products. If so, I'm somewhat not surprised given the list prices of the traditional cars. I can and do buy on the secondary market, where prices are a fraction of Lionel's list for the types of cars.

leapinlarry posted:

Good Morning Steve, Thanks for the notification. My email has changed, Larrylevin71@yahoo.com.  Please discontinue using my older email, Llevin64@yahoo.....Thank you. I will come to your nice store in the next few months....Leapin Larry

Duly noted and changed..... Thanks

jstraw124 posted:

Would these scale  coal cars be oversized for a lionmaster sized engines?  I've been looking at the MTH multipacks,  but also like the looks and price of this option. 

Personally, I think they'd look fine..... 

I'm going to buy a couple of them the next time I'm in my LHS. Not because I need any more rolling stock, but simply because they are made in the USA.  They will replace worn equipment that has seen better days.

I got a question via email about the couplers so I interrupted Mike's beer and got this answer. Thanks Mike. Really helpful.

"They are thumbtack couplers. Unlike our hidden coupling tab trucks, the coupler can be easily removed and Kadee's can be body mounted. The 2-rail conversion kits use a different bolster to lower the ride height a bit too, taking up the distance required for hi-rail trucks. We put a lot of energy into this truck design. The 50' modern boxcar and PS-2CD hoppers will have 70T roller bearing trucks. The 3-Bay hoppers will all have 50T journal box trucks."

Thanks Mr Muffin, this is great information.   These should be a great set of cars!  

Its amazing that Lionel can deliver these upgraded cars at a great price while made in America.   Most would have predicted these would come in at a much higher price.

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

I got a question via email about the couplers so I interrupted Mike's beer and got this answer. Thanks Mike. Really helpful.

"They are thumbtack couplers. Unlike our hidden coupling tab trucks, the coupler can be easily removed and Kadee's can be body mounted. The 2-rail conversion kits use a different bolster to lower the ride height a bit too, taking up the distance required for hi-rail trucks. We put a lot of energy into this truck design. The 50' modern boxcar and PS-2CD hoppers will have 70T roller bearing trucks. The 3-Bay hoppers will all have 50T journal box trucks."

Steve, again I must say thanks for going right to the source to get answers to our questions.  More good info here!

For Rich Trowbridge and others here is a photo of a Pullman-Standard PS-2-CD 4740 CU FT 3-bay covered hopper built in 1971 for the Grand Trunk Western. This matches the covered hopper in the LionelScale line that Weaver Models used to produce.

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-...=gtw315162&o=gtw

Decent prices and they look good. 2nd hand Weaver are still cheaper, much cheaper, so I may continue to hunt them....I enjoy that......but  C&O hopper set is tempting....thx

Dave - yes, second hand Weaver will be cheaper and I have lots of them in my collection, but I think the re=engineered trucks and the additional weight will be an improvement. 

Pre-orders for these are really coming in - very popular. 

Thanks. 

Steve..... 

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Dave - yes, second hand Weaver will be cheaper and I have lots of them in my collection, but I think the re=engineered trucks and the additional weight will be an improvement. 

Pre-orders for these are really coming in - very popular. 

Thanks. 

Steve..... 

Agreed....Weaver trucks are the weak point.

If I didn't own 300 freight cars....I'd order hoppers.....thx

The Milwaukee Road Pullman-Standard PS-2-CD 4740 Cu Ft 3-bay covered hoppers were in the series MILW 100000-100499  and built in 1970.

Here are a few photos from the Canadian Freight Railcar Gallery website.

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

I know I am not the only one wondering why a USA made traditional box car with die cast trucks and sheet metal floor lists for $85 (plastic trucks and frame for $55 made overseas) and these new LionScale cars are $55 made in the USA????

I thought I heard someone from Lionel say that for the first time, sales of traditional cars have fallen to scale products. If so, I'm somewhat not surprised given the list prices of the traditional cars. I can and do buy on the secondary market, where prices are a fraction of Lionel's list for the types of cars.

 

I think there might be a savings cost in Lionel doing this themselves. Lionel has ordered all of its products from manufacturers overseas and a manufacturer in the US. So those companies have to make money the same as Lionel. It seems they are essentially "cutting out the middle man." Just a thought to consider..

TrainingDave posted:

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

I know I am not the only one wondering why a USA made traditional box car with die cast trucks and sheet metal floor lists for $85 (plastic trucks and frame for $55 made overseas) and these new LionScale cars are $55 made in the USA????

I thought I heard someone from Lionel say that for the first time, sales of traditional cars have fallen to scale products. If so, I'm somewhat not surprised given the list prices of the traditional cars. I can and do buy on the secondary market, where prices are a fraction of Lionel's list for the types of cars.

 

I think there might be a savings cost in Lionel doing this themselves. Lionel has ordered all of its products from manufacturers overseas and a manufacturer in the US. So those companies have to make money the same as Lionel. It seems they are essentially "cutting out the middle man." Just a thought to consider..

If that's what is truly going on, I hope they get their head on straight and do this with more of the trains that have actual tooling.

El Classico posted:

TrainingDave posted:

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

I know I am not the only one wondering why a USA made traditional box car with die cast trucks and sheet metal floor lists for $85 (plastic trucks and frame for $55 made overseas) and these new LionScale cars are $55 made in the USA????

I thought I heard someone from Lionel say that for the first time, sales of traditional cars have fallen to scale products. If so, I'm somewhat not surprised given the list prices of the traditional cars. I can and do buy on the secondary market, where prices are a fraction of Lionel's list for the types of cars.

 

I think there might be a savings cost in Lionel doing this themselves. Lionel has ordered all of its products from manufacturers overseas and a manufacturer in the US. So those companies have to make money the same as Lionel. It seems they are essentially "cutting out the middle man." Just a thought to consider..

If that's what is truly going on, I hope they get their head on straight and do this with more of the trains that have actual tooling.

You think the cost of the tooling might have something to do with it? Lionel didn't have to shell out the bucks to have this tooling made - they bought it from a previous owner going out of business - sort of like buying a used car - with bad wheels.