Barry's Book?

Terry,

I am still mystified by the Shopatron stuff though. MTH is making it hard for me to spend my $$! And hard for me to buy your book!

I don't understand what is the problem with MTH's Shopatron store. Please explain. You can E-mail me off-line if you prefer, using the address in my profile.

Thanks!

As I have said in the past,

1) MTH-included documentation should be as good as Barry's book

2) If Barry's book is that much better, a downloadable licensed version should be INCLUDED in the package with every DCS system (remote/TIU package)

3) If #2 was provided, Barry would make lots more money on volume than he does on the number of books/downloads sold (I'm guessing that he sells to a smaller number than the number of DCS systems sold, no data to document this)

4) If MTH paid Barry a reasonable amount for the ability to include a download with every DCS system, it would probably amount to about a 3% increase in the street price of a DCS system. (ie. $309 instead of $299).  I doubt it would impact sales of DCS systems.

Just my HO,

Ed

Ed, I have a copy of each of Barry's 3 editions.  I have no need for more.  So why should I have to pay more?  If someone is paying $300 for a set, is it too much for them to pay the price to get the shop manual rather than just the owner's manual.

I spend a lot of time around boats.  It's amazing to see someone heading over the shoals, because they spent $300,000 for a boat but wouldn't spend $10 for a chart.

RJR,

   In that case you should have the option to not include the DCS O Gauge Companion when purchasing the MTH DCS/ Trains.   MTH should however offer it as an educational option.   I believe most people purchasing a DCS for the 1st time, would definitely want the book, and I do believe they should have the ability to purchase OGR Video Guide to DCS as an option also.  If it were my MTH business, I would be including them both on an optional educational level, and promoting their use to help sales of my MTH DCS &  P2/P3 Train sets.   Further I would be doing a lot more promotion on how DCS runs 90% of Lionel Legacy, and referencing the educational books & Video Guide to expand my businesses over all sales, especially at Christmas time.  Further Mike & Lionel are missing the boat on modern sales promotion, of these Remote Control Trains, they need to get  their Reps doing demo- train layouts in the big Macy, Menards, Pennys stores all over America, their sales would boom again, kids would actually get to see how the remote control works, how fun it is to play with them, and with the new WIFI AP, big time interest in our hobby would occur once again.  They really are missing the business management end of these new modern remote control trains, you can bet the new remote control toy flying air craft companies, will not miss this business opportunity, bank on it.  MTH & Lionel should be making their own remote control air craft also, launched from their remote control trains, as they pass outside onto the patio or porch.  This is big time business now, the same as the trains were in the 50's & 60's if they promote this correctly.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, let's not start down that discussion again for the umpteenth time.  We don't agree.

I have no problem with offering an extra cost option.  The size of that book will scare off many, who want a one paragraph direction.

RJR,

   They could also market it that way, but if they want to make big money they need to cover all the bases.  You have to look at the over all big business picture of all these new remote control toys.

PCRR/Dave

"I don't understand what is the problem with MTH's Shopatron store. Please explain. You can E-mail me off-line if you prefer, using the address in my profile."

Thanks, Barry. Figured it out and have the E-book file now. For some reason I fixated on the "Shopatron password" and tried to get a Shopatron account??

Ed,

That 3% is very important. Just look at the number that have thousands into their trains, but balk heavily at paying Paypal. The boat analogy is right on.

John H posted:

Ed,

That 3% is very important. Just look at the number that have thousands into their trains, but balk heavily at paying Paypal. The boat analogy is right on.

"I spend a lot of time around boats.  It's amazing to see someone heading over the shoals, because they spent $300,000 for a boat but wouldn't spend $10 for a chart.".. as is often said, "You can't fix stupid!"

When I look at many of MTH and Lionel's prices lately, I see more that a 3% increase for the same car or the same transformer, and that's for no change in design or quality.   When I buy an M&Ms boxcar, it's usually about $5 more than the same PRR boxcar... in that case we pay extra for licensing.  Based on continued M&Ms offerings it doesn't seem to have any impact on buying.

I truly believe that $309 vs $299 would not stop buyers from buying a DCS system.  Not having a choice, and having quality documentation included would benefit both company and buyer.  Like many other products, MTH should provide both a quick start guide and a full set of documentation (a la Barry) with their DCS system.

Again, just my HO,

Ed

ps. UPS and Fedex rates have gone up by more than 3% in recent times - people didn't stop buying trains (or anything else!)

Ed,

    In reality I do not think it's sales price that keeps Barry's book from becoming part of the MTH DCS sales package.  RJR does have a legitimate point about some people being scared off from purchasing a products that has a massive instructional manual.  However I do believe MTH made a big mistake with their business decision on this engineering matter long ago.  Here is why, when DCS 1st came out, before Barry had even stated writing his DCS O Gauge Companion book, there were problems with the DCS working correctly all the time.  Lots of these problems were not covered in the DCS basic instructions.  As a NASA grade engineer I decided to stick with the DCS and see what I could do with it, I wanted a remote control that could run both the new trains and my old conventional very badly.  A few of us got together and made DCS run half way decently, however we were about to chuck the DCS because of the repetitive signal loss problems and start expanding the DCC.  Then Rich Melvin put out his OGR Video Guide to DCS, the visual education Rich did on the MTH DCS spurred a couple of us on to figuring out the 12 track join discipline for DCS layout building, then Barry came out with his 1st book, and with his gift for technical engineering writing, he kept our engineering interest in DCS.  The mistake MTH made was not bringing Barry into the company and fronting him into making MTH's DCS Technical Engineering Video's, the 1st Instruction over view video would come with the initial sale of the DCS, then the advanced engineering Video's could be purchased at a decent price from the MTH, as the owner wanted to expand his DCS layout.   MTH's mistake was they missed the importance of advertising their advanced engineering technology, Barry should have been convinced by MTH to fully join the MTH company as their technical writing director, to write and produce all kinds of MTH instructional Video's, later MTH should have had him do MTH Video's from his Beta Testing MTH Layout, further some how MTH need to convince Marty F to become part of the engineering Instructional package also.  RJR is absolutely correct when he says a large written instructional manual can curb sales, however correctly done video's, especially with great advertising, are a completely different matter.  Young people eat this kind stuff up today, it was a massive sales opportunity MTH never saw.  It could have expanded their sales on a massive business basis, and now with the WIFI it would have even been bigger.

PCRR/Dave

Hey, guys, stop trying to euchre Barry out of his retirement income.  In round figures, a DCS set costs $300.  The 3% figure someone ginned up from somewhere (I won't state from where they probably pulled it) would mean $9 in order to get a copy of Barry's book.  Deduct costs and Barry would get a few cents per sale.  The electronic book sells for $15 and the hard copy $35, so I'm sure Barry makes more than a few cents per copy.  Why should he take an income cut, and why should I----ME----- have to kick in $35 to his retirement fund every time I buy a DCS unit or loco?  I'm a friend of Barry's, and I like him, but not to that point.

I would also note that the probabilities are that only a small percentage of DCS owners have his book, and survive.

Unlike yourself, I, and many others, don't like to sit and watch videos that have to be geared to the slowest learner.  The only time I can recall using a video was trying to figure just how to pry the ice door panel off a GE refrigerator.  At least with a reference manual, like the book, one can search for what they need and read it at their pace.

I'm inclined to agree with you Dave, that with 20/20 hindsight, a wise move might have been for MTH to subcontract to Barry the writing of the Owners Manual.  But when DCS was issued, a manual was needed and Barry probably hadn't conceived the idea of his book.  Also,  he has his own company, so it would not make sense for him to submit to being an MTH employee. 

SantaFeJim posted:

IMHO it is insane that a manufacturer brings a product to market and that same company cannot include proper documentation to support said product.  

WHY should the consumer have to pay BIG BUCKS for 3rd party documentation in order to learn how to operate a product that has flawed manufacturers documentation? 

I own exactly one DCS locomotive and wish that I didn't.

 

You and I are in the minority.

I agree MTH should provide  information to operate its products.

I have no other product in my possession that I had to buy extra instructions in order to get full non proprietary use out of.

But, because MTH was allowed to be so lackadaisical, Barry's book is a plus.

And his help on this forum is great.

AS  far as your opinion of MTH products you wish you did not own...

Thats all on you, it is after all, a free country..make a video of you throwing it off a cliff, shipping it to one of the few who offered to buy it, or running it to illustrate what issues you are having. Post it so we can enjoy.

I have an MTH LOCOSOUND, bought new in 2002, original battery, still runs like new. And it sat unused a few years.

Yes there are frustrating issues between MTH, Lionel and consumers.

But when you successfully operate your trains, in a world you are god over, uninterrupted by reality, it always feels great.

If the manual with the DCS unit were the size of Barry's book, I'm sure there's be grousing on the forum about the size of the manual.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with the 4th edition of the DCS manual, which is the most recent I have, in getting DCS up and running.