CA Zephyr Passenger Set

I thought that the full scale Atlas CZ set is almost complete, as the last one or two cars will be shipping in November or December, 2014.

Atlas has 5 cars to go. The dome obs and 6-5 are coming end of year, then they have to do the conductors dome, the buffet dome and baggage car.

Gotta admit that it appears Atlas-O wins this dubious honor.  They announced their CZ in mid-2009, and here we are in 2014 still without a reasonably complete passenger train.    I would venture a guess that many enthusiasts have now lost interest in the Atlas-O CZ for two reasons:  one being the 5+ years that it's taken Atlas-O to deliver cars in a piecemeal fashion; and two... now that they've restarted production at a different overseas factory, the latest and likely additional cars have a slightly different paint finish than the cars produced by the former Atlas-O factory.

 

In short, the Atlas-O CZ has been the perfect example of how to NOT produce a train over an extended period of time.  Now that's not to say the product is not a good one, as I'm sure folks who've "stuck it out over the long haul" will have a nice train (provided Atlas-O delivers the domed observation car in late 2014 / early 2015).  And for those who've lost complete interest in it, there's still sufficient market demand that they could sell a complete train to one-off CZ enthusiasts here and there.

 

For my purposes, the domed observation car makes the train "reasonably complete".  If Atlas-O were to produce a baggage car, that would be a nice bonus at this point.  But seeing that they haven't even announced it yet, one can only guess whether (or when) we'll ever see the remaining cars.

 

Meanwhile, over in Lionelville, troubles seem aplenty with respect to Lionel's ability to deliver aluminum passenger cars with any sense of regularity.  The last set Lionel produced was the handsome Milwaukee Road 18" set, which was very late in its own right -- and many buyers reported wiring/lighting issues on a few of the cars.  So Lionel has certainly had better times delivering passenger cars.  Things looked brighter on the surface when the last two catalogs featured several terrific-looking paint schemes in 18" cars.  But the reality of actually delivering them has been a huge disappointment.  

 

As for the Lionel CZ, the big wild-card will be whether they choose to produce a prototypical domed observation.  The catalog illustration shows a non-domed, regular Lionel observation car.  And when we ask Lionel for any particulars, we get the typical and useless response: "Thank you for your inquiry.  However, we here in Lionelville won't know specifics until we see a factory prototype."  Which leads us to draw no other conclusion than the tail is wagging the dog.   

 

Whether or not we'll see a Lionel CZ this year is anyone's guess.  It's already been delayed numerous times, and the current Lionel online shipping schedule indicates July 2014, which as we all know has come and gone with no delivery as far as we've been told.  Most of the recently-catalog'd 18" passenger car offerings now have delivery ETA's out in November 2014.  But the Neil Young series 15" cars may have the more realistic ETA listed as May 2015.  So yeah, I gotta believe we're well into 2015 before we'll be seeing Lionel aluminum passenger cars.  But I hope I'm wrong!

 

So for CZ enthusiasts, neither Atlas-O nor Lionel seem to have the optimal solution at the moment.

 

David 

Its hard to stay enthused about a "set" of passenger cars when the finish on the different runs don't even match.

Agreed. I realize that hind-sight is always 20/20 but, I'm sure glade I didn't start ordering those Atlas CZ cars back in 2009.

While at Hinton during RR days in the absolutely beautiful state of West Virginia,  I had a chance to check out a long CZ type SS fluted tourist train with what seemed to be more than 12 cars long, most of them dome cars from many different roads. 

 

Something stood out to me.  They were just like the Atlas cars.  The finish was varied.  Could not detect which cars would have made a model railroaders satisfactory "set".  There is a prototype for everything.

 

Nice thing about Hinton is that you can walk up the road immediately next to the track and view the dome from a >20' distance dead level straight on.

 

 

 

Yes...  hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20, and those of us who started with the Atlas-O CZ back in 2009 did so under the impression that Atlas-O would have the entire train produced within 18-24 months... which back then seemed to be a reasonable timeframe for the price-point.  I mentioned the paint-finish discrepancy, but truth be told it's very minor.  And some folks may not even notice as a moving train passes through different light conditions on a model railroad layout.

 

Nonetheless, purists will of course balk, right on queue, because the CZ admittedly represented the epitome of first-class passenger train service that even pre-dated the exquisite customer service levels that Pan Am Airways established in the airline industry during the early 1960's.  So in an ideal world, CZ models probably should be produced with uniform paint-finish throughout.  However, even in the prototype world, passenger trains were assembled as revenue deemed necessary and sometimes the realities of life tainted the ideal standard.  At the end of the day, I can live with the minor discrepancy, but I understand some cannot.

 

So all you guys who want absolute perfection can now go to GGD and lobby them to produce a "complete CZ" for you at a premium $250-$275 per car.     Everything comes at a cost, folks. 

 

David

True, but those cars are now all PRIVATELY OWNED, and thus look different. If a person was desiring to model the ORIGINAL California Zephyr, from the 1950s through the late 1960s (as handled by the CB&Q, D&RGW, and WP), then it would be desirable to have the cars all look the same (including having the wind blinds on the INSIDE).

$275 a car is an absolute bargain.

KMI's models will be north of $1400 a car.

With the appropriate power depending on road use you could spend  $21,800.

$275 a car a an absolute bargain for GGD's cars. They could easily be $500-$600 a car

$275 a car a an absolute bargain for GGD's cars. They could easily be $500-$600 a car

 

 

I totally agree Erik. I don't have any Atlas CZ cars to compare them too, but I'm very happy with my GGD cars and the quality is fantastic. 

 

Butch

Are you catching any of this Scott?  I am guessing that there may be a lot of guys/gals on this forum that would love to have a CZ set produced by GGD.  

 

Especially if all the cars matched.  

 

 

The K-Line 21" CZ cars may not be perfect, but they sure are nice and the finish does match. Sure glad I went that direction.

I never even heard of KMI.  They did a complete Zephyr? Presumably in brass?

if i were an operator (as opposed to a collector), the wait for this train would have been very frustrating.  

       
       


Key Model Imports Bob.

http://www.keymodels.net/id9.html

Sorry bout that.

Thanks.  Of course I know of Key - I was wracking my brain trying to see if the initials fit anything, but it just seemed so far away from Key . . . 

Seeing a real passenger train where the finish on the cars doesn't match exactly, is one thing. I've never bought a "set" of passenger cars in N, HO, or O, that don't match, in any price range, especially with some cars having window blinds on the outside, and then some on the inside where they belong. Sure Atlas provided a fix for that, that's not that point.... even for $150 a car. I only bought a few for a private excursion train, but after getting them, and waiting for the last couple, I'm glad I didn't order the whole set.

 

Everyone complains about the Lionel windows in their passenger cars, but at the least the whole "set" looks the same right out of the box.   

Key Models

Key Model imports

http://www.keymodels.net/id9.html

I hear an echo. Hahah



       

Your absolutely right man! The train looked the same for maybe a week; dust, rain, winds, corrosion, and anything else began to personalize the train on it's first westbound trip. Even on the erecting floor at Budd the nature of the stainless steel like wood would have little touches of persona. How it absorbed or reflected light, etc etc.


       

Off the erecting floor they used windshield wipers on the dome ends, full width diaphragms... That lasted maybe 3-4 round trips.

Has anyone kept a list of what Lionel cataloged vs what Lionel actually produced when it comes to full scale streamline passenger cars? They are some nice cars. Once I tried them I nolonger wanted my 16 inch cars. I only have the Congressional, Canadian Pacific, and Empire State Express. the CA Zephyr was going to be my west coast train. I did not want the Union Pacific Set. And I know Lionel would never make a full scale Empire Builder or North Coast Limited. Started buying the Atlas CA Zephyr because it is actual scale and thought Atlas would get the job done first. I hope one of those companies gets the job done while I can still run my trains. I ordered this years C&O set.IT will be time for them soon.

"full scale streamline passenger cars?"

 

To my knowledge, Lionel used it's access to the K-Line tooling to produce only two (2) 21" passenger car sets, the Texas Special and the UP Yellow version of the Milwaukee Road. Other than that, as you make reference, they did many 18" sets in a variety of road names that are obviously not scale, but still very nice. Hope this helps.

Curious why you would think that?  I'd buy them!    Although I should be receiving a full set of MTH's latest NCL cars this month -- just that they're ABS plastic rather than aluminum. 

 

I'm OK with 18" passenger cars.  21" are certainly more accurately "full scale", but very few people have the proper curve radii to do those cars justice.  That certainly hasn't stopped folks from pre-ordering the Big Boy though!!! 

 

David

I get as frustrated with Atlas as everybody else. I swear for all the delays they have had and you know they have lost business over it, It had to have been cheaper for them to have moved this stuff back here and make a Zephyr car that costs $200. Even the other makers.

 

 

Dick

 

Huge radii, and in addition these trains take an enormous sized layout to handle their length. A full set of those coming MTH cars with engines will be something in the neighborhood of 15 feet long. That's about as long as our SUV. So, for the most part, the only people who can run something like this need to have access to a very large amount of open basement space, especially if they want their train to ever straighten out for any distance, and do something other than be constantly curved like a snake. A pretty limited market, it would seem. And of course, with 21" cars, even more is required, and the market (and amount of sales) is that much smaller. 

I rarely "stock up" on trains, but with the K-Line 21" cars I simply could not resist.  Starting at $100/car and winding up at $75/car, I stocked up with B&O, Empire Builder, bunches of UP and PRR, some double decker CNW, and a Zephyr car.  I look at all that aluminum with a measure of guilt and awe - they were what I had wanted since the 1960s.

 

See, Lionel would produce all of these, but I think those of us who might have wanted them bought them when they were so obviously a bargain. So Lionel says " what market?  bob already has all he wants or could possibly need, and we cannot produce them for $100 each".  The End?

]

sorry - no more photos from me.  You may be able to click on that symbol to see some of my fleet.

 

I got a deal on some a set of the 21 inch K-Line CZ cars. They look great for what I paid for them. And Williams Burlington set goes well with it! They are not perfect to scale but they do look good. Photos below.

 

Here are some pics.

I do like the Atlas cars will be while till they all come out but they are very well detailed.

But there were some issues with the Dome design, they are not a perfect casting, if putting a deposit to order a set and not getting them for a few years and not knowing what you are getting it, it can be difficult to lay out the $ ahead of time till you see what you get.

The best part of getting a few cars at a time is that you can save up for it! 

 

Sunset Golden Gate cars come in sets it takes a while before they are produced long lead up but Scott has been doing a good job in making sure the details are correct before he releases sets. But big hit to the wallet when you get a full set! 

 

In the 2 rail forum there are some pics of the new CP cars released by Sunset 3rd Rail Golden Gate very close to the CZ cars the details are great by the looks of it.

https://ogrforum.com/t...il-the-canadian-cars

 

 

There will be a 8 or 9 car CZ set available tomorrow at the Strasburg fire house 2rail show.  Should arrive by 9:30.

 

Check with me out in the engine house. Tom Thorpe