Crane Car - TMCC not happy with 1.7

I just tested and it works fine. I wonder if maybe your install of 1.70 was corrupted somehow? Do you have the module still? Can you try installing 1.70 again?

Hey @Dave Olson,  Is there a difference when using as Legacy Boom car vs a TMCC Boom car?  I suspect the Legacy Boom would need Legacy sounds?  Does this affect the operation or the icon layout?

@Mike Summerville posted:

Hi,

Likely the solution is switching to Railsounds 5 (RS5) type under the Crane ID.

By default, 1.7 assumes legacy RailSounds.  Switching to Railsounds 5 type (RS5) should give back working icons.

Try on the CAB2: hit Info button, then go to the Railsounds tab and switch to Railsounds 5 (RS5).  At that point, you should see a familiar crane screen with the hook and boom icons on the second row and they should now work as expected.

What if you have the Legacy boom car?

Won't the Legacy boom car work in TMCC mode?  I remember some discussion about making the Legacy boom car compatible with the TMCC crane, don't know where that ended up.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Won't the Legacy boom car work in TMCC mode?  I remember some discussion about making the Legacy boom car compatible with the TMCC crane, don't know where that ended up.

A Legacy boom car will work with a TMCC crane but what makes the "Legacy" Boom car a Legacy item?  Legacy sound?  If so wouldn't it need to be set to Legacy Sounds?  Are the new crane cars operation different as it needs to be set as "Legacy control" as well?  The Legacy Crane car manual doesn't specify a control type.

The control type is TMCC and the sound type is Legacy RailSounds.

For the Legacy boom car, setting to Legacy RailSounds gives you the quilling horn. Otherwise operation is the same as the older TMCC version.

@Dave Olson posted:

The control type is TMCC and the sound type is Legacy RailSounds.

For the Legacy boom car, setting to Legacy RailSounds gives you the quilling horn. Otherwise operation is the same as the older TMCC version.

Thanks Dave.  I only have the TMCC version so I can even start to duplicate the issue.

I have been testing this today with 2 different sets of Lionel crane cars and boom tenders with sounds. One set, the 6-81882 DT&I Legacy crane car and matching 6-81887 Legacy Railsounds boom car. The other set was the TMCC version 6-19897 New York Central crane car and the Santa Fe boom Railsounds car 6- 29813. On my layout, I had programmed all of these to TMCC ID 3 in the my CAB2 running firmware 1.7 and base running 1.6.

I cleared the ID I was using #3 just to be sure, and then re-added it as a crane car. It again defaulted to Legacy Railsounds and in doing so, would not switch between hook and boom or the 2 different hooks, the headlight and tailight controls did not turn off the lights.

This is the default icons you get for crane when in Legacy Railsounds mode. Again this is specific to CAB2 firmware 1.7.

Then if you hit info and then change the type to RS5.

Then in Railsounds 5 mode, the crane icons change to this.

And then last, regardless of railsounds setting, there is only the CAB option for control type.

Setting to Railsounds 5 operated both crane cars and both boom cars correctly.

Setting to Legacy railsounds, multiple functions do not operate correctly. Example you cannot select which boom or hook, the lights do not turn on or off.

Again, when this topic came up, I tested this earlier today and got the same bad results. Then I went ahead and downloaded the version 1.7 firmware from Lionel to a separate folder, and the made a new update module and flashed my Cab2 and got the exact same results. In fact I tested with 2 different CAB2s.

However, persistently testing, I found what appears to be happening is while the CAB2 displayed icons change, the actual action button functions are remaining matching the TMCC Railsounds button placement and actions.

As an example, in TMCC railsounds mode, #4 is turn on and off the front lights on the crane car.

Where in Legacy mode, the icons changed, however, pressing what would be #4 turns on and off the front lamps of the crane cars. Further testing revealed that this seemed to be true for the other buttons as well, the icons displayed are changing in Legacy mode, however, the layout and function is still TMCC.

Hopefully this helps point out exactly what some are seeing specific to the crane type when chosen in firmware 1.7.

Hey Guys,  Thanks for all the feed back. Wow @Vernon Barry thanks for the extra effort! I’m actually away on business.  I’ll be back tomorrow tonight.  I’ll check if I’m set for RS5 or LRS.  The picture I see that behaves incorrectly is the last picture from Vernon.  When it works, with my 1.61 update, I see the picture set to RS5.  Those icons work perfectly. I will check how the sound is setup on both the 1.70 and 1.61Cab2.  I will report back! Thanks again guys for the help. @gunrunnerjohn, @MartyE, Dave Olson

@Vernon Barry posted:

Again, when this topic came up, I tested this earlier today and got the same bad results. Then I went ahead and downloaded the version 1.7 firmware from Lionel to a separate folder, and the made a new update module and flashed my Cab2 and got the exact same results. In fact I tested with 2 different CAB2s.

However, persistently testing, I found what appears to be happening is while the CAB2 displayed icons change, the actual action button functions are remaining matching the TMCC Railsounds button placement and actions.

As an example, in TMCC railsounds mode, #4 is turn on and off the front lights on the crane car.

Where in Legacy mode, the icons changed, however, pressing what would be #4 turns on and off the front lamps of the crane cars. Further testing revealed that this seemed to be true for the other buttons as well, the icons displayed are changing in Legacy mode, however, the layout and function is still TMCC.

Hopefully this helps point out exactly what some are seeing specific to the crane type when chosen in firmware 1.7.

I'm seeing the same thing on 1.7.  Hopefully @Dave Olson checks in.

I screwed up the first test, one of my remotes was still on 1.61 and I happened to grab that one to test.  I didn't realize I hadn't updated it, I thought I did them all.  I see the same thing with my TMCC boom car and 1.70 on the CAB2, so clearly we have a consensus.  It does appear that 1.70 is broken for the TMCC crane boom car.

What I learned from this? Way too many of us have expensive TMCC and Legacy crane cars and don't get them out off the display and running them to find a bug on a firmware that has been out for some time. Again, to me, that is the bigger thing- remember to play with all your fun cars and trains more often.

@Vernon Barry posted:

What I learned from this? Way too many of us have expensive TMCC and Legacy crane cars and don't get them out off the display and running them to find a bug on a firmware that has been out for some time. Again, to me, that is the bigger thing- remember to play with all your fun cars and trains more often.

I've used mine since updating but since it was not the Legacy version went through and set everything to RS.  I just never even tried the Legacy setting.  Nice catch though.

Hey Guys,  I changed the sound setting from LRS to RS5 on the 1.70 Cab2 and the buttons changed and all work as expected.  I guess I’m just validating what Vernon and Marty wrote.  

Can you at least confirm you can reproduce it, and thus acknowledge this is a legit problem and ideally, can we get a bug fix version in the development process? 1.7.X?

Just trying to give people direction since this never actually got resolved. I proposed a work around- but that is not a fix.

Thanks.

Edit, sorry did not mean to post the wrong quote. That was really out of context.

@Vernon Barry posted:

What I learned from this? Way too many of us have expensive TMCC and Legacy crane cars and don't get them out off the display and running them to find a bug on a firmware that has been out for some time.

Maybe more like, if it ain't broke don't fix it?

What's the advantage of 1.7 over 1.6?

I've been running 1.4 up until a few months ago when I grabbed a 993 before they skyrocketed. The 1.6 993 worked just fine with my 1.4 base.

I upgraded the base as well to match, but 1.4 ran my trains with no discernable difference.

I also have a Tmcc crane car, but no interest in 1.7 before this glitch.

Well in theory one reason it matters is the CAB3 base. The idea being that 1.7 implemented specific updates to talk with CAB3 base so if you have a Legacy crane car and ordered CAB3 base, and intend to use your CAB2 with your brand new base, then this topic is extremely relevant.

Ok. Vernon fair enough. Base2 works well enough for me, so that reaffirms no need for 1.7 in my case.

Good luck, I hope Lionel can address this issue for you.

Got me thinking of going back to 1.61 on my CAB2, I won't be buying a BASE3 unless there's a burning reason.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Got me thinking of going back to 1.61 on my CAB2, I won't be buying a BASE3 unless there's a burning reason.

But I bet you will be selling lots of BASE3’s !!😉

@Dave Olson , since you are on the forum today, any comment or resolution on this issue with the Legacy Crane car and CAB2 firmware 1.7?

Can you reproduce what several of us were seeing?

Is this in the "to do" list as a possible fix in the next CAB2 update (1.7.x)?

Is the workaround to use TMCC mode the official work around until a new CAB2 update is made?

@Vernon Barry posted:

@Dave Olson , since you are on the forum today, any comment or resolution on this issue with the Legacy Crane car and CAB2 firmware 1.7?

Is this in the "to do" list as a possible fix in the next CAB2 update (1.7.x)?

Yes, on the list. No idea on timing.

Thanks for the reply. I completely understand the timing issue. This is just one bug and there is a temp workaround.

My concern was a rumor (you know that crazy internet) that 1.7 would be the last update (ever) for CAB2.

@Vernon Barry posted:

My concern was a rumor (you know that crazy internet) that 1.7 would be the last update (ever) for CAB2.

I wouldn't call it a rumor if that what was originally planned before the bug surfaced.

@RickO posted:

Maybe more like, if it ain't broke don't fix it?

What's the advantage of 1.7 over 1.6?

I've been running 1.4 up until a few months ago when I grabbed a 993 before they skyrocketed. The 1.6 993 worked just fine with my 1.4 base.

I upgraded the base as well to match, but 1.4 ran my trains with no discernable difference.

I also have a Tmcc crane car, but no interest in 1.7 before this glitch.

I for one appreciated 1.7 as the fix for Aux Tenders brought out the value of those items.  I have 2 of them.  There was also some mention of Train Link fixes which I never quite understood.  I also use Train Link quite a bit.

I do understand frustration when pre-existing functions (TMCC crane car) are disrupted with a new release.

Just providing some form of closure on this specific bug identified with the Crane cars and 1.7, Lionel has released a firmware update for the Legacy 990 system specifically the CAB2 remote firmware 1.72

Thanks to @Dave Olson

and @MartyE for sharing the news

https://ogrforum.com/...c/164024807607610966