Cruise Commander Mini in MTH Galloping Goose?

I have a Galloping Goose, but it has a non-cruise board.  I'm thinking of replacing it with the CC-Lite, it's a perfect application for the board.

I think you're going to be disappointed in trying to retain the sounds.  You can't control the sounds as the PS/1 sounds won't react to the TMCC command inputs.

Basically, the RPM will remain at max because of the track power, and the horn and bell won't work because they're coming over the serial input.

I put a RS board in mine that had a nice non-turbo diesel that sounds pretty good, and of course I do have control of the horn and bell.

Ah, thats a good point about the RPMs John.   Ok, that answers that!  I'll pull the boards and have plenty of space for it now!  Ha ha.   I'll be adding some LEDs for lighting and some extra detail too!   

Thanks for that clarification John.   Just realizing the RPMs wouldn't work solved that dilemma!  

You can try feeding the PS-1 board via the motor leads and see if that works for level of sounds only.  G

Without the horn and bell, this seems like a losing idea.  The Equalizer or UCUB would do this without cruise, but I haven't seen any of them for sale in some time.

You can try feeding the PS-1 board via the motor leads and see if that works for level of sounds only.

Since you'd be feeding the PS-1 board DC instead of the AC it gets from the track, wouldn't the horn sound continuously when running in one direction and the bell continuously in the other?

Yep, I think this effort is simply not going to fly.

I do have a very convoluted solution that involves a small custom board that I have here.  I have a board that's a prototype of a unit that converts the TMCC horn and bell signals to a dc offset riding on the track signal. It was intended to allow you to trigger a conventional whistle/bell board using TMCC.  The original intent was to trigger sounds in some of the conventional cars like the Polar Express talking diner.  This was developed by Jon Z. at Lionel and it a pretty slick little board.  I'm still hoping that at some point ERR will have these for sale.

There still is the issue of the engine RPM, unless you could figure out how to get varying AC somehow.

Couple ways to skin the cat.  Feed the top board motor lead pins but not AC pins.  Feed the 9VDC signal.  Feed the bottom board (it is full rectified anyway) but still remove the AC to top board.

As I stated this is motor sounds only  You could feed track voltage AC to the top board. And use separate horn/bell button.  So it is doable based on trying to keep the PS-1 specific sounds while running TMCC for control.   G

I am very glad to catch this thread.

I too have a pair of PS-1 Galloping Goose engines.

I much prefer the sounds in them to the sound set in my new PS3 goose.

I have the horn/bell covered, but I'm still not sure that you can get the motor sounds synched to the speed.

The real trick will be fitting the TMCC and PS/1 stuff into the engine...

I may have some time today, I will see if I can fire up a modified PS-1 board on DC.  You can run the top board without the bottom you just need to know what power/signals you need to send up.  The rest are signals down to control the bottom board.  G

I'd like to know where those signals are if you have it figured out.

I'm also very interested in this as I have several PS-1 locomotives that I'd love to convert to TMCC, but want to keep the sounds on.

If you look at the bottom board you have AC power and motor power go up to the top board.  Also 9VDC from the adjustable regulator.  I believe the motor voltage drives the chuff/diesel rate.  AC for the signal detection of DC offset and 9VDC drives the top board circuit.

I am not guaranteeing this, but believe that is what is going on from my memory of tracing this all out.  G

You should have written this all down.

I do have notes but I have to dig that folder out.  G

If there was a way to add the engine sounds and whistle/bell to TMCC control, I think that would be a worthwhile project.  It would be nice to keep some of the excellent PS/1 sounds for a TMCC upgrade.  While the new ERR RS Commanders have excellent sound, you have a very limited number of sound sets.

I don't think we can trigger with TMCC serial date with out the decoder/pic device you have.  I guess that was on the DD board.  I have one of those but have not traced it out.  Shame that information isn't out there.  Maybe a summer project.  G

Actually, the board I have impresses the DC offset on the track signal for either whistle or bell, so if it reacts to that input, it would trigger the sound.

I don't know exactly how the PS/1 processor board would be wired in, that's the wild card in my mind.  If it truly reacted to motor voltage for RPM/chuff and the AC track voltage DC offsets for whistle/bell, I'm not sure why it wouldn't work.  What you posted previously appeared to indicate that's the way it would work.

I did a little work on this while troubleshooting a PS-1 board set.  I was running a board out of the engine with a motor attached.  With constant AC input if you hold pressure against the flywheel as the motor slows down the chuff rate also slows.  It will also engage the squealing brakes.

Squealing brakes can come on when you have a loco enter a curve and the extra friction slows the motor down.  So I do believe the top board measures the motor voltage or current and programs sounds based on that.  G

If you can power it with track power and use variable DC to adjust the motor sounds, the TMCC board I previously posted might be an option.  You could connect the motor to the top board and have it react to the motor voltage.

That would be the next test.  The top board needs AC, and about 9VDC for audio.  The motor input could come directly off the DC motor leads.  I will try to set it up.  The other issue is needing battery for transfer of program data.  In a large engine I would leave the PS-1 set up, just not allow the motor feed to the top board to engage the bottom board and feed them from the DC motor.  Let the TMCC drive the motor and the bottom board would just do sound effects.  I guess a redesigned smaller power board like the QSI set up would be better.  Of course, I don't really think there is a high demand for this considering all the benefits going to a PS-2 or PS-3 upgrade.  G

AC is easy if it's just track power, and the 9V could be one of those small eBay AC/DC power supplies, plenty of power for this task.  Maybe not a big demand, but it would be interesting to see if it would work.  I've had a number of people want to keep the PS/1 sounds for an upgrade.

I just about have my docket cleared.  May wire up a top board and see how it does.  G

This is what I believe the key attributes would be for such an upgrade.

• Ability to trigger the whistle and bell from the command remote.
• Engine sounds variable based on motor speed.

Another issue that I'm not sure how it would be handled is getting the board out of reset at power up.  It's never been clear to me if the low voltage startup is handled on the bottom or top board.  Since command comes up at 18 volts typically, the combo would have to come up running without starting at 10 volts or less.

Gentlemen,

    Very interesting and educational thread, this is the exact reason the OGR is such a great place to participate.

PCRR/Dave

I currently have a dozen PS-1 locomotives (And several more on my locomotive hit list.), and if they get a command upgrade, it'd be to TMCC, not DCS.  And at least 4 of those would only get upgraded if I could keep the sounds.  So if someone comes up with a solution to test, I'd be willing to try it out.  I have had an idea in mind, and talked to an EE here at work about it, but neither of us have had time to sit down and start looking into detail about it.  Some things I've thought about;

-Locomotive still works in conventional.

-Some people like the PSA/FYA (I don't.) so there would need to be a way to trigger them.  But if you could it as a loss to get TMCC, you could lock the locomotive in forward before doing the upgrade (Solves the getting out of reset issue.), but then you'd also loose the sounds played when in neutral (And the ability to program the locomotive.).

-Would you be able to control the smoke with the remote, even add John's super chuffer board?  Problem here is that I can't think of any way to time the smoke chuff to the PS-1 sounds.  Could match the smoke chuff to the wheels, but then being off from the sounds might put some people off.

My idea that I shared via email with John a while back was to made a board that the TMCC receiver plugs into that you place between the rollers and the PS-1 boards.  In conventional the board passes track power to the PS-1 board set.  In command the board varies the AC power and send the DC offsets to the PS-1 boards.  Basically the track is like a power brick and the on board TMCC/PS-1 bridge board acts like a PowerHouse.  This wouldn't work for small locomotives, but then most the ones I want to keep the sounds on are large locomotives with lots of room in their tenders or body.

The sticking point of this solution is generating the variable AC power.  It certainly can be done, but it's significant development work to create a board that basically emulates the TMCC electronics.  I'm sure that the development effort would never pay off for the few that would be interested in this complex a solution.  I like George's idea of feeding the board the motor voltage and having it work from that, the whistle and horn DC offsets are already figured out.

A really interesting topic.

I have three PS-1 (?) MTH AS-616 powered units. I really want to keep the sound; to my recollection they sound like Baldwins, not ALCO or EMD prime movers which is what Rail Sounds offers. As a TMCC partisan I really don't want to modify them to PS-3 (and have Baldwin sound), plus there's the cost.

If "we" can solve the PS-1 -to-TMCC issue, perhaps the next step is Dallee, who offer quite an interesting range of sound files.

Well, I don't see how Dallee fits into the PS/1 & TMCC package, am I missing something?

Well.

Some time ago I asked ERR if it were possible to suppress the diesel sound on their boards. It is. So, what I needed was a way to bypass MTH motor control but keep the prime mover sound, using TMCC for bell and horn. This thread appears to show a way to accomplish this.

Dallee offers a nice range of sound systems, including this:

If you all can figure out how to fiddle the MTH controls, perhaps it's a small (!) step to accommodating other sound systems, like Dallee's  (assuming the Dallee electronics would fit within the confines of the AS-616 shell).

Expand your horizons!

From what I see in the instructions for the Dallee sound system, you could connect that directly to the TMCC horn/bell interface board I posted about above and have TMCC controlled whistle and bell, and the motor voltage would control the prime mover sounds.  It should be dirt simple to get that going.

The downside appears to be the size of these boards, they take up a lot of space!  They don't give dimensions, but from this picture, I'd say each of them are at least 3" long, and with all the stuff sticking out of them, they consume a lot of space.  Contrast that with the size of the ERR RailSounds commander single board that's much smaller and thinner than one of these boards, and you'll see that these are for big items!

Thanks, gunrunner.

Looks pretty near impossible to fit one into a hood unit, more's the pity.

The boards ain't cheap, either.

Yep, I believe a long time ago I looked briefly at the Dallee sound stuff, but concluded back then it was a bit bulky for most installations.  Too bad, because other than that I suspect it might have been a good fit.  I think this is an old product line that they haven't bothered to upgrade, they're just trying to milk for all it's worth.

I know this is a stretch, but is there any way to make use of some of the smaller scale DCC sound decoders? 

I'm very interested in this thread for two specific locomotives: an Atlas SW-9 with standard electronic reverser, and my beloved MTH gas turbine PS-1. I'd really like to upgrade the turbine especially, and now that I'm "Legacy-equipped", I'm thinking the Cruise Commander is a less expensive (and hopefully more robust) solution, at least initially. But there's no gas turbine sound available for CC. However, LokSound does have such a thing.

Very grateful to see this conversation happening!

Fred

Fred,  At this point there is no way to run a Command engine in command while running conventional sounds in command too.  You are now talking about combining 2 command systems in one engine and using the TMCC to run the engine and DCC to run sounds.  Basically 2 different remotes in your hand.

If Jon Z markets the translator, which would take TMCC command signals for sounds from the R2LC or even a Legacy R4LC and have it converted to provide the appropriate DC offsets to trigger conventional sounds, you can get half way there.  The only other issue is speed related sounds, which maybe able to be run off the motor, as long as it doesn't mess with Speed control.  Tach driven motor control might not mind, while ERR Back EMF might not like a load on the motor (Based on Jon Z comments).

Your also going to have to deal with 4 motors on an ERR board.  Not sure if it is meant for that.  Does it take 2 ERR board or a DCDR slaved?  Not sure.

G

LocSound is a combined motor driver and sound module, don't know how you're going to stick that in with TMCC control.

Okay, bad example - I was thinking that one of the DCC makers, maybe Tsunami, made a standalone sound decoder. Thinking more about it, I'm realizing it's probably not practical, since the DCC modules  respond to DCC commands, not external triggers. Oh well.

GGG, I don't necessarily want to run conventional sounds in command mode, I was just wondering how to trigger another, higher fidelity sound source. The sounds on my PS1 gas turbine don't sound like the real thing IMO (sounds basically like a diesel), so I have no desire to keep them around. I don't know how accurate the PS2 sounds for that locomotive are, but the cost of the master and slave PS2 boards plus installation is prohibitive. 

Fred

By the time you get the cruise commander and whatever custom sound board you find interfaced, the PS/2 costs may start to look attractive.

Fred, Which MTH model?  If your willing to take a risk, I will back it.  I was contemplating doing that upgrade with just a PS-2 board.  I would replace the rectifier and the motor diode with the larger higher rated and heatsink to the frame similar to 1 Scale.

The board can handle the lights and 2 smoke units.  I think the 2 extra motors can be handled too with an upgrade on the rectifier.  Experimental, but yes saves you a lot of cash.  The veranda turbine or propane as an example are good fits with all 4 motors in the same chassis.  You can e-mail me if your game.  G