ERR CC in Hudson Jr

I would solder wires to the two rails and using a tiny wire nut connect the ERR wire when putting the shell on.

Just to add what Chuck says, its a good idea to remove the handrails before soldering. If they are made of tin plated brass then they will be easy to add solder (tin) the tip of the rail. If they are made of music wire they will be a bit harder to solder. I use and active flux first before trying to solder the tip, basically a plumbers flux, acid flux, or zinc chloride flux. 

If you try to solder to the handrail when its still mounted in the engine you risk melting the plastic insulating sleeve. By tinning both the handrail and the wire you only have touch the iron to both for a few seconds inside the shell.

Pete

If the handrail takes the solder you can solder it on.  I would be carful that too much heat doesn't melt the handrail bushing that insulates it from the shell.

The other way is via a small crimp sleeve that you can use for a friction fit that clamps wire to handrail.  Make sure you insulate the exposed connection either way.  Once done, test to makes sure NO continuity between antenna wire and shell.  G

Good advice on not overheating the wire. I use a small needle nose heatsink below the solder area, liquid flux, and surprisingly, a really hot iron with a reasonably large tip. I find that a hot iron does the job very quickly and does not propagate heat down the wire as a result. So after tinning the rail wire, tin the wire jumper, and then solder them together quickly.

Some of the handrails appear to be a material that doesn't solder.  I'd say stainless steel, but that's a bit hard to believe.  As George says, overheating it and wrecking the insulator will ruin your day. 

Thank you all so much for clearing that up. I started the installation today after doing the pesky chores around the house.

   John just to let you know the handrails ( on this engine anyway ) are stainless steel and I could not soldier to them so I had to improvise, I don't know if anyone else has done it this way but I stripped some 18 gauge wire and used that to form my new handrails and soldiered my wires to that. Now I have copper colored handrails but oh well.

     Here are a few shots of what it looks like sorry there a little blurry.

• That looks good. You can, however, get tinned copper wire. I keep several gauges in small rolls. BTW, looks like you did this, you can unroll copper wire and pull it straight. It stretches a little, but looks great.
• Maybe if you use a small gauge, it could be painted black as well.

If you tried to solder the stainless with rosin flux it won't work. Stay Clean zinc cloride flux will enable you to solder stainless. 

Pete

I haven't had great luck with any flux soldering stainless. Fluxes that are at all effective on SS are acid based, and it's pretty difficult to remove all traces after the work.

I've made several sets of handrails with nickel-silver wire of the same diameter as the SS handrails, they work out fine and I can easily solder to them.  I found my wire from a jewelry making site.

I was thinking that just wrapping bare end of the antenna wire around the inside end of the rail would work well. Keeping it there without a crimp might be possible with just a twist and a really tiny wire nut.

One way is with one of the Telco bean splices, they make pretty good connections. 

Gary, if you want to send me the handrails, I'll be glad to tin the ends for you. I solder stainless on a fairly regular basis. 

Pete

Probably not a lot of clearance this way.  The crimp sleeve followed by insulation is how Lionel does it on some models.  G

This is a pretty small loco and it's basic black.  My recommendation would be to use a tether and put the ERR circuitry in a postwar PLASTIC tender.  There should be enough room for the board stack and a small speaker.  Signal propagation problem solved!

I never thought about using nickel silver wire even though I have used it in the past on RC airplanes, must be age creeping up on me. Trying to use a connector did not look possible seeing how the longest stub inside the engine was barely 1/8 inch long.

   Now I came up with another problem there is no place inside the engine I can screw the card down to without making some sort of bracket. Question can I secure the CC down to the weight block with two sided tape like the sound card or is there a reason for the screw connection.

    Pete thank you for the generous offer but for this engine I am going to blacken the rails however I may take you up on the offer when I try to do my Williams Jclass.

     some photos of how I am trying to install  the board.

I'd put the CC in the tender, but when I'm doing one of these I typically add fan driven smoke and a Super-Chuffer.  The heatsink on the CC looks to be high enough to hit the top of the boiler, and remember that the R2LC plugged in will have it's solder side sticking up and potentially shorting to the boiler.

Another consideration, for a small locomotive, you could consider the Cruise Commander Lite, which is much more compact and would fit easily in the locomotive.

after doing everything I found out the CC is to high to fit. I thought about putting everything in the tender but I have the same problem because the tender is all cast also. I took some measurements and I can machine off about 1/4 inch off the weight and mount the CC to the weight and there will be enough room.

 I did not consider the Cruise commander lite because I wasn't sure if it will handle the amps if I pull my six car Williams Pullman cars. I did not check to see what the amp draw was when I ran it conventional.

    If I do end up using the tender what can I use for a connector between the loco and tender so I can separate the two for maintenance.

Gary

First off, insulating the diecast tender shell for use as an antenna is usually pretty easy, so that shouldn't be a major issue.  What I've done with the Cruise Commander Lite is use a PTC in the motor leads to protect the drivers in the case you have a motor stall that would exceed the 4A rating of the FET drivers.  With that in place, I can grab a locomotive with the same size motor and stall it on the tracks without damaging the CC-Lite.  In normal operation, it never notices the PTC, I use one with a 1.65A trip.

I use the MTH 10-pin tether for many of my upgrades.  I've bought matching male connectors for the locomotive side if I can't use the MTH locomotive tether connector board. Is there a tether now between the two?

JB-Weld and Loctite 380 are your friend here, that's how I mount the locomotive connector if screws are not an option.

Once again-- my advice would be to use a plastic postwar tender.

Lionel introduced this loco circa 2000 to replace the old 2037-based mid-priced locos.  [They had already modified that casting beyond recognition, to the point of ugliness!] The Hudson Jr. was originally offered with a square 6026-type plastic tender.  The later die-cast tender (probably the one you have) resembles a 2466 type.  I'm almost certain you could get the ERR circuitry and a speaker in a readily-available postwar, plastic 2466 tender shell.  Repaint to taste.

I wish upgrading "scale" locos were so easy.  I've "floated" metal tender shells on two upgrades, it involved a LOT of grinding.  These are permanent alterations and not as easy as GRJ makes it sound.  (I don't have his skills ;-)   Good luck, thx for sharing.

Why would you go to a plastic tender?  Sorry, but I don't agree with that advice, it's not a big problem to use the diecast tender, and the extra weight in the tender really adds to the stability of any longer consist you might be running.

I have done very minimal "grinding" a couple of times to float the tender shell, and most are simply done with Kapton tape an nylon screws.  I've yet to find one, except a tinplate one, that was a special issue.

John I upgraded two early MTH Premier steam locos to TMCC.  The thick metal tender shells were a pretty snug fit on their chassis.  I used ordinary electrical tape (needed 2 layers), and the shell wouldn't fit evenly over the tape.  The chassis was hard steel, but I wore out a couple of dremel bits grinding a LOT of material from the inside of the zinc tender shells to get back to an OEM fit.

Re: long consists, the loco also has to pull the weight of the tender.  On an upgrade, an all-metal tender is quite a handicap.  To prevent string-lining, you want the weight down low, not up in the shell.  So stability could be restored by sticking a few weights to the underside of the chassis.  Just not a fan of metal tenders with radio control :-(

thanks for the info I now plan on putting everything in the tender as suggested, there is plenty of room and there seems to be enough of a gap between the body and shell for the kapton tape. I'm just having a problem finding the 10 pin connectors and nylon screws. may I ask where you get yours from. The screws appear to be metric but I can't seem to identify the size.

Thanks

Gary

Ted, that's why you use Kapton tape.  Other than perhaps filing a tight spot or two, it's thin enough to not cause a tight fit.  It also is stronger than electrical tape and resists wear.

As far as the weight being too high, if that were a major issue, all my high-end steamers would be struggling to pull long trains, but that's not the case.

Gary, I get the nylon screws from Microfasteners Nylon Machine Screws.  I use the Screw Chek'rs to size the screws.

For 10-pin tethers, I use MTH PS/2 parts.

     I ordered  my screws they are actually a 6-32 which I was surprised, but having trouble locating the 10 pin connectors. I only need 6 wires from the engine( ie. 2 for the motor, 1 for hot from the rollers 1 from the outside rail ground, 1 for the headlight and 1 for the smoke unit) I was wondering if one of these would work

http://www.allelectronics.com/...ector-w/leads/1.html

http://www.allelectronics.com/...tor-connector/1.html

http://www.allelectronics.com/.../header-0.156/1.html

They'll work, but they're big an ugly tethers and the large wire may cause the tender to pull off the tracks on turns.

I'd be more inclined to use something like this.  The pins for the female are at the bottom of the page.  You can get these in 8 and 10 pin sizes as well, I typically use the 10-pin size.  Remember, you need to handle the chuff line as well.

DF11-6DP-2DSA(24)

DF11-6DS-2C

Guns,

   I take it this is the technique you used to upgrade my Tin Plate 249 with ERR?

PCRR/Dave

Yep, I made the antenna out of the four handrails on the tender, they were replaced with nickel wire.  When you look, you'll see they're insulated from the tender shell.

Guns,

   Roger that.

PCRR/Dave