Explorer running two loops?

I'm wondering if it would hurt the DCS Explorer to run two individual loops off of one Explorer. This would allow me two engines on one, and a third engine on the other, since the loops are not that big.

That's absolutely no problem as long as the loops aren't too large for one explorer to handle and that you don't exceed the 6 amp power limit.

Another user reported using multiple tracks with no problems.

The largest power brick I have is a z1000 and I believe that’s under 6 amps by a whisker

Barry, what is too large a loop for the Explorer not to work on? Has MTH say anything on how many feet the Explorer will work up to?

what is too large a loop for the Explorer not to work on? Has MTH say anything on how many feet the Explorer will work up to?

Without having any experience or a specification, I would consider the DCS Explorer to have the same signal strength capability as one channel of a Rev. L TIU.

That would equate to up to 24 blocks of about 10-12 track joins each. If each track section of each block was 3' long, that would equate to 720-864 feet of track. Since switch tracks and curved tracks are somewhat shorter than 3 feet long, those estimates would represent the maximum amount of track for the DCS Explorer.

Based on Barry's calculations, my two Cork Floor Empire loops should be no problem for the DCS Explorer.

As for power, I'll start with a z500, and go up to a z1000 if necessary. I'll let you all know how it performs. 

While I have your ear, let me ask another question.

Since I do enjoy collecting starter sets, I have no doubt I will be buying another MTH set with another Explorer included. (As has been discussed many times, many of us find enormous value in MTH sets, which is why I am so happy to see them again. Almost all my engines are from MTH starters.)

I recognize that I will need another control device for a second Explorer (each one has a specific MTH Wifi log-on), but I already have the app installed on a few older iPhones that can run the app.  Would you think there would be any kind of signal problem using the MTH Wifi setting on two individual Explorers in close proximity?

I can't imagine why someone who would plan on running several loops of track and then obviously several trains, to base their system on a starter set level piece of command? It may well handle it. I would just comment that it seems wrong, to base what would seem to be a big investment, on a single tiny piece of equipment.

 I would think that MTH designed the commander to handle a single small to maybe medium sized layout. I was blasted when I started in O scale for trying to run my O scale on a single TIU channel. As soon as you acquire some engines left parked on the rails, you have to start making special handling so that you don't go past five amps. I'd have to think you'd better not be using passenger cars with regular bulbs in this set-up with more than a single engine.

 The TIU channel is rated at ten amps! The commander at five to six.

Would you think there would be any kind of signal problem using the MTH Wifi setting on two individual Explorers in close proximity?

Assuming that you're using both in MTH mode as servers, there should be no issue at all since each smartphone or tablet will be connected to only one DCS Explorer at a time.

However, it would be interesting to see what would happen if two explorers were to be simultaneously connected to the home network in Home mode. The DCS App would be able to see both of them at the same time.

Would it:

• Do what it does with multiple WIUs, i.e., see all of the engines on both?
• Arbitrarily connect to only one of the DCS Explorers?
• Get confused and melt down?

Enquiring minds want to know!  

Engineer-Joe posted:

I can't imagine why someone who would plan on running several loops of track and then obviously several trains, to base their system on a starter set level piece of command? It may well handle it. I would just comment that it seems wrong, to base what would seem to be a big investment, on a single tiny piece of equipment.

 I would think that MTH designed the commander to handle a single small to maybe medium sized layout. I was blasted when I started in O scale for trying to run my O scale on a single TIU channel. As soon as you acquire some engines left parked on the rails, you have to start making special handling so that you don't go past five amps. I'd have to think you'd better not be using passenger cars with regular bulbs in this set-up with more than a single engine.

 The TIU channel is rated at ten amps! The commander at five to six.

Wrong?

And that's what's great about hobbies. You can do things your way, and I can do them mine, and that's what makes horse racing. Enjoy your trains--I'm having a blast with mine!

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Would you think there would be any kind of signal problem using the MTH Wifi setting on two individual Explorers in close proximity?

Assuming that you're using both in MTH mode as servers, there should be no issue at all since each smartphone or tablet will be connected to only one DCS Explorer at a time.

However, it would be interesting to see what would happen if two explorers were to be simultaneously connected to the home network in Home mode. The DCS App would be able to see both of them at the same time.

Would it:

• Do what it does with multiple WIUs, i.e., see all of the engines on both?
• Arbitrarily connect to only one of the DCS Explorers?
• Get confused and melt down?

Enquiring minds want to know!  

This is what I suspect - but the big question is - will you be limited to 3 engines? Or will the app know there are 2 Explorers and allow 3 each - total 6 engines?

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Would you think there would be any kind of signal problem using the MTH Wifi setting on two individual Explorers in close proximity?

Assuming that you're using both in MTH mode as servers, there should be no issue at all since each smartphone or tablet will be connected to only one DCS Explorer at a time.

However, it would be interesting to see what would happen if two explorers were to be simultaneously connected to the home network in Home mode. The DCS App would be able to see both of them at the same time.

Would it:

• Do what it does with multiple WIUs, i.e., see all of the engines on both?
• Arbitrarily connect to only one of the DCS Explorers?
• Get confused and melt down?

Enquiring minds want to know!  

Yes, I agree. I think it is a very interesting question. I am enjoying experimenting with the capabilities of this starter system. I'd like to know the answers to the questions Barry raised as well. I wonder if MTH did testing like that, and what the results were?

As to the results of my experiment: the Explorer did really well with a z1000 and two loops with three trains. Performance was spotty with the z500. I don't know if other things were happening that could account for it, but the trains seemed to lose the signal with the z500 sometimes.

One other thing I experienced , because I've never really run Fastrak switches until now, is that both my MTH steamers, one a 2 and one a 4 in front, derailed on the switches. Every time. My Lionchief steamers have no problems, and the MTH diesels I have seem to be performing just fine. That has nothing to do with the Explorer, and I had heard that this was a problem for others, but this was my first time experiencing it.

Thanks everyone, for your input. I believe this Explorer system is very robust, and for a small layout like mine--a carpet empire--it is a magnificent product.

will you be limited to 3 engines? Or will the app know there are 2 Explorers and allow 3 each - total 6 engines?

Odd are that the DCS App will only allow 3 engines, total. That's the way the function-limited free version of the DCS App works with a WIU and I expect that the DCS Explorer code in the free app would have that same limitation, rather than or in addition to, a DCS Explorer limitation.

Roving Sign posted:

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Would you think there would be any kind of signal problem using the MTH Wifi setting on two individual Explorers in close proximity?

Assuming that you're using both in MTH mode as servers, there should be no issue at all since each smartphone or tablet will be connected to only one DCS Explorer at a time.

However, it would be interesting to see what would happen if two explorers were to be simultaneously connected to the home network in Home mode. The DCS App would be able to see both of them at the same time.

Would it:

• Do what it does with multiple WIUs, i.e., see all of the engines on both?
• Arbitrarily connect to only one of the DCS Explorers?
• Get confused and melt down?

Enquiring minds want to know!  

This is what I suspect - but the big question is - will you be limited to 3 engines? Or will the app know there are 2 Explorers and allow 3 each - total 6 engines?

I suspect this too. I think MTH's testing probably shows that at six amps the capacity is 3 trains. Connecting two Explorers through the MTH wifi, running two different power sources, two different control screens (like an iphone for one and ipad for another), as Barry said, I'll bet that works without a hitch.

But on the home network, I'll bet it limits to three engines total, instead of the six you'd get with the MTH wifi setting, because that is the limit of one Explorer's capacity. 

Barry Broskowitz posted:

will you be limited to 3 engines? Or will the app know there are 2 Explorers and allow 3 each - total 6 engines?

Odd are that the DCS App will only allow 3 engines, total. That's the way the function-limited free version of the DCS App works with a WIU and I expect that the DCS Explorer code in the free app would have that same limitation, rather than or in addition to, a DCS Explorer limitation.

Which makes me wonder whether there really is a three engine capacity issue, or if it is simply a business decision to limit the starter system to three engines? One can in theory run more than three engines with a 6amp z1000, no?

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Which makes me wonder whether there really is a three engine capacity issue, or if it is simply a business decision to limit the starter system to three engines? One can in theory run more than three engines with a 6amp z1000, no?

It is, I suspect, a bit of both.

 

On the one hand, 6 amps is just about enough power to operate 3 engines with smoke on and a modest number of cars on each.

 

On the other hand, MTH also limits the free app, which has no power constraints when working with a TIU/WIU combination, to 3 engines. That's a valid marketing constraint that's in place to get people to upgrade to the $4.95 Standard or $24.95 Premium versions of the app.

Ok, this is a point of confusion for me: I would be glad to upgrade the app--more than happy to--but my understanding is, if I am only running the Explorer, upgrading the app gives me no more features than I have now. Is that true? Is the advanced app only good for full DCS/TIU operation? 

If I can use more features on the Explorer by paying for an upgraded app, I would be more than happy too, and happy to live withing the three engine limit.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

will you be limited to 3 engines? Or will the app know there are 2 Explorers and allow 3 each - total 6 engines?

Odd are that the DCS App will only allow 3 engines, total. That's the way the function-limited free version of the DCS App works with a WIU and I expect that the DCS Explorer code in the free app would have that same limitation, rather than or in addition to, a DCS Explorer limitation.

This can't be a huge problem to fix - the limit should be based on "per Explorer" - not per Free app.

You’re correct. If you only use the app with a DCS Explorer, there’s no reason to upgrade to a paid version.

As far as running more than 3 engines per explorer, 6 amps really isn’t enough capacity.

Regarding simultaneously running multiple explorers with 3 engines each, I don’t see that as something to “fix”.

That would create issues with partitioning 3 engines per explorer so as not to exceed the 3 amp limit, and would also run counter to MTH’s desire for the explorer to be a DCS entry level device.

The DCS Explorer is an entry-level device. If you want more capability you should purchase a TIU/WIU configuration. You’ll get 4 times the DCS capacity and a ton more functionality for less than the cost of 4 DCS Explorers.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Regarding simultaneously running multiple explorers with 3 engines each, I don’t see that as something to “fix”.

That would create issues with partitioning 3 engines per explorer so as not to exceed the 3 amp limit, and would also run counter to MTH’s desire for the explorer to be a DCS entry level device.

The DCS Explorer is an entry-level device. If you want more capability you should purchase a TIU/WIU configuration. You’ll get 4 times the DCS capacity and a ton more functionality for less than the cost of 4 DCS Explorers.

 Then why would they include the MTH/HOME network switch if they weren't meant to work together?

I'd also like to know if the Explorers can join a WIU on a HOME network?

 Then why would they include the MTH/HOME network switch if they weren't meant to work together?

So that you can connect to the Explorer in Home mode and simultaneously have an Internet connection or also have a connection to a Lionel Legacy iCab or LCS app.

Alternately, if you have no home network you can connect to the explorer in MTH mode.

I'd also like to know if the Explorers can join a WIU on a HOME network?

Of course they can. Then, your DCS App(s) could each choose to use on or the other.

Hello all,

New to the forum. I read through this thread as I was also wondering if it was possible to power two separate loops of track with the DCS Explorer; however, I want to add more detail as to how I'd like to go about it before I actually commit.

I have two separate loops of Lionel Fastrack; one of my terminal tracks has the two-pronged fork connectors and the other terminal track has the regular wire ends. What I'd like to know is, if the red ends (positive/hot) are touching each other and the black ends (negative) are also touching while connected to the Explorer, will that cause any damage to my engines?

Thanks,

Mark

@Bruticus posted:

Hello all,

New to the forum. I read through this thread as I was also wondering if it was possible to power two separate loops of track with the DCS Explorer; however, I want to add more detail as to how I'd like to go about it before I actually commit.

I have two separate loops of Lionel Fastrack; one of my terminal tracks has the two-pronged fork connectors and the other terminal track has the regular wire ends. What I'd like to know is, if the red ends (positive/hot) are touching each other and the black ends (negative) are also touching while connected to the Explorer, will that cause any damage to my engines?

Thanks,

Mark

You can treat the two loops as a single track with them all together.  The real question would be, can you live with the 6 amp maximum power supplied and whatever DCS signal the explorer puts out?  How big are the two loops?

I think I can live with it. The larger loop is about 6 ft long and a little over 5 ft wide, so not very big. I'm also using a Z1000 with the Explorer.

Thanks,

Mark

Gee, I don't see any problem there, that's maybe 40-50 feet of track total!  My mainline is 140 feet and it's running on a single TIU channel with no issues at all!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Gee, I don't see any problem there, that's maybe 40-50 feet of track total!  My mainline is 140 feet and it's running on a single TIU channel with no issues at all!

Haha yup! I'm in an apartment so my loops are very much temporary and on the floor. Whoaa, sounds like a more ideal scenario than mine; one of these days I'll hopefully get there lol.

@Bruticus posted:

Haha yup! I'm in an apartment so my loops are very much temporary and on the floor. Whoaa, sounds like a more ideal scenario than mine; one of these days I'll hopefully get there lol.

Been there, done that.

Went for a slight upgrade.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Been there, done that.

Went for a slight upgrade.

Haha from modest beginnings to a beautiful, more permanent layout. Just a slight upgrade 😂

Here's what I'm working with:

Well, you can consider a modular layout with sections so you can move it.