Rich Melvin posted:

...

You have no idea how much of your privacy you give up when you set up your Faceplant account.

...

actually i know exactly how much, zero.  well, maybe 1%, ... my first name is my real first name, my last name isn't.  i bypassed every other question or option when signing up.  nothing else is required other than a normal sounding name.

there are plenty of ways old friends can find me, i have a Facebook account only to visit commercial sites that are on Facebook and to comment on articles where they take Facebook logins.  do i get junk email?  i'm not sure ... it goes right into the trash.

overlandflyer posted:

Rich Melvin posted:

...

You have no idea how much of your privacy you give up when you set up your Faceplant account.

actually i know exactly how much, zero.  well, maybe 1%, ... my first name is my real first name, my last name isn't.  i bypassed every other question or option when signing up.  nothing else is required other than a normal sounding name...

When you log into FB, they put a tracking cookie on your computer. It's part of the login process.  That cookie tracks every web page you visit and logs that, along with your IP address. It does not matter that you used a "fake" name when you signed up for FB. You used your real name and address to get your internet service at your home didn't you? And your name and your account is tied to the IP addresses that are used to provide you with internet service. THAT is what FB logs.

Just because you didn't answer the FB questions correctly means nothing. That's why they don't require you to provide accurate information there. They don't care. They can find you via your internet service provider.

Rich Melvin posted:

That cookie tracks every web page you visit

I assume you mean every page you visit from Facebook and that’s why you shouldn’t click on all those “cutesy“ click-bait memes your friends think tell them their future, how intelligent they are, etc., not to mention those that promise riches, love and lord knows what all.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Rich Melvin posted:

That cookie tracks every web page you visit

I assume you mean every page you visit from Facebook...

No, DoubleDaz, FB tracks EVERY WEB SITE YOU VISIT...including this one!

FB is not alone. Google, YouTube and thousands of other sites do the same thing.

Rich, wouldn’t the cookies get to be huge files and wouldn’t batteries die? Also, why does my iPad report FB battery usage time as 1:58 on screen and only :57 background for the last 24 hours when I’ve been googling, etc., a lot longer than that just this afternoon without connecting power?

Rich, I think you’re only somewhat right. Here’s what Consumer Report says about it. To be sure, FB gets a lot of data.

https://www.consumerreports.or...ure-not-on-facebook/

DoubleDAZ posted:

Rich, I think you’re only somewhat right. Here’s what Consumer Report says about it. To be sure, FB gets a lot of data.

https://www.consumerreports.or...ure-not-on-facebook/

Yup. That's how I thought it worked. 

It's not a cookie FB puts on your machine, it's a snippet of code that is added to the page of publishers that allow FB to do so.

Some groups have asked FB to change it back to when you had to hit the "like" or "share" buttons to enable FB's servers. As far as I know, FB has been unresponsive.

Regardless, I'd miss out on a lot of good stuff without FB, and they're not getting any critical information.

Wow! I was not expecting this response but then again I don't spend a lot of time researching this type of stuff to know if it's good or bad. The internet itself is good for me mainly to look at reviews on books I might be interested in (I buy a lot of American Railroad books) and buying other O scale items as it all comes from the USA.

I am known as a "Loner Modeller" over here in West Australia I don't have a lot of contact with other modellers probably because American O scale in this State is almost nil apart from myself. I thought Facebook might be a way of expanding my knowledge but looking at these messages and talking to a good friend last night on the phone to America I am having second thoughts even though he told me there is a very good O scale site on facebook with many people in it that I know he also knows me well enough to say I could get frustrated with facebook and think about it before joining.

The thing that concerns me is I might have to work at it to get the best results and that almost rules me out straight away because even though I am long retired I have many interests which include my family and I know that I would not have the time or patience to monitor what I am sending or receiving properly sounds a bit like Morse code doesn't it (sending receiving).

Anyway the bottom line is I have decided I don't want to join it I'm happy being here with no hassles one thing I might do is rejoin the NMRA I liked their magazine and miss it a lot.

I would like to thank everyone here for their replies I really appreciate them I have read them all. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing just not for me.  You all take care and follow my Steel Mill threads here if you want to see what I get up to when I'm home working on the layout instead of looking at Facebook !  Roo.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Rich, wouldn’t the cookies get to be huge files and wouldn’t batteries die?

The cookie file is just a tiny snippet of computer code. It doesn’t change size. It simply tells your computer to send data to Faceplant every time you load a web page. Whether it’s done with cookies or pixels, the result is the same, an unwanted invasion of your privacy.

Facebook is a hackers paradise. Period.

I love seeing all the steam related posts on Facebook. An incredible amount of interesting information I would not have ever known about otherwise.

Facebook's tracking is a bit more insidious than simply placing a cookie on your machine. If you completely want to to kill it, install some sort of script blocker, such as uBlock Origin or NoScript; by default, this will prevent a webpage from loading any code that isn't HTML or loading content from another website. It will break your websites until you go through and manually approve what you want to allow the page to load. But you'll see all the other junk a website loads under the hood, and things pointing back to Facebook servers are often times there. As an additional bonus, it will kill off a load of ads, too.

Is any online site totally safe, secure, and suitable for everyone and every purpose! Nope! Not even close!

But if you're interested in taking advantage of the tremendous amount of information that is available today about virtually any subject you can imagine, and if interacting with others who share your special interests appeals to you, all you have to do is connect. 

Since I quit Facebook, the junk mail I get is a fraction of what it was, and the out-of-town robo-calls I get have been significantly reduced.

Roo posted:

…. Anyway the bottom line is I have decided I don't want to join it I'm happy being here with no hassles one thing I might do is rejoin the NMRA I liked their magazine and miss it a lot. ...

I respect your decision, but … I'm sorry to hear it.

Perhaps, in the future, you may be with someone that will join Facebook with you. I always remember that the internet has many "experts"  espousing misinformation and manufactured outrage/problems, often peppered with insults and name calling.

What you do is really cool, Roo. I follow along with all of your posts. There's an entire planet of modelers, in all scales, that would love to see your efforts. Both, as inspiration in their modeling, but also just admiration of something they will never be able to do themselves.

Happy Railroading

Jim 

If you knew anything about big tech and privacy lawlessness....

EBT Jim posted:

Roo posted:

…. Anyway the bottom line is I have decided I don't want to join it I'm happy being here with no hassles one thing I might do is rejoin the NMRA I liked their magazine and miss it a lot. ...

I respect your decision, but … I'm sorry to hear it.

Perhaps, in the future, you may be with someone that will join Facebook with you. I always remember that the internet has many "experts"  espousing misinformation and manufactured outrage/problems, often peppered with insults and name calling.

What you do is really cool, Roo. I follow along with all of your posts. There's an entire planet of modelers, in all scales, that would love to see your efforts. Both, as inspiration in their modeling, but also just admiration of something they will never be able to do themselves.

Happy Railroading

Jim 

Jim.

I haven't gave up completely. Next weekend we are having a family day out where 3 of my children (all on Facebook) will be there along with some other members and friends and at some time I am going to ask the same question. Of course I will wait for the right moment I don't want the day spoilt by endless discussions about Facebook!  Already I have the feeling what they will say ......... "Dad you would not have the patience for it, and we don't want to see you get angry".

I know my kids and they know me.  Roo. 

I was on facebook and did away with it I did not like it at all.

Roo,

I've been back and forth with the FB thing but in the end I haven't joined. A mixture of objecting to their MO and not wanting to get drawn into too much time spent online. But there are a few relevant public groups where you can see all the posted content and comments even though you're not a member, you just can't post.

If you haven't already seen it, there's a 2-Rail O Scale & Proto:48 Model Railroading public group on FB which has some excellent modelling and expertise from top-notch P:48 and Ow5 modellers. Perhaps you could review that for a while and see how it goes.   

I should add turn off (don't allow) cookies in your browser for the FB site or they'll track you online after you visit anyway, even though you're not a member. 

Pete

Don't do Facebook. Never have, never will.

I'm a very private person so Face Book is not for me.  OGR fills my needs nicely.

I look at FB about twice a month. I use FireFox with an add on called FB Fence that compartmentalizes FB from other browser activity. The other thing I would recomnend not doing is using the "log in using FB" that appears on other web pages--who knows what can of worms you've opened.

A more significant problem with FB is only showing most recent posts rather than the whole thread as you would get on OGR for example. In an auto list I used to follow with many posts the original question seems to always get lost in the noise.

The Rockford O Scalers have had a Facebook page for a couple of years now with no problems noted.  If you decide to join Facebook, please consider checking out our page which features photos and videos of the layout.

   I almost quit this forum when the FB symbol first appeared.  Seeing it tempts me to daily to be honest.  It's in the top ten most offensive things I've seen here. 

(the whopper was my favorite burger ..I've had less than one a year average since the 80s after a bad experience and corporate appathy using other business policy as an excuse("but they do it" don't cut it as an excuse. I only want to know what the business I'm dealing with does). Sears, same thing after new century policy changes . I only swap out broken Craftsman now. I sooner buy dollar store tools)  ...then again, it has contributed more to the forum fiscally than I can, that's a definite I can't deny.

 I hate it when folks link to it without warning us too. Considering some of the content on FB, and some of the links to other sites with questionable material that get deleted, I don't see a flat playfield.

I don't have many friends left alive. The majority are under 50 and not members either. Most that are, only are so they can connect to younger family.    The attitude of most folk under 30 is that you can't possibly live without FB.   I.e. like any other fence, the view varies differently on both side; gather your info objectively, with some salt, and decide for yourself if the risks are worth the reward. 

 Might I suggest a Lifelock subscription before you do begin though. There is ALWAYS a backdoor when it comes to computers. That comes from a family computer/areospace engineer. (I kinda knew that. I know more than many;  but I'm a tech dinosaur really. So to hear it from them and know they wait at the bank every payday to transfer funds out of the direct depost account asap, is a nice reassuring affirmation I'm not overly paranoid) 

  I've joined and dropped FB three times this century. The last time was just because folks claimed the privacy was much better now...(not)   I never stayed for more than a week or two either. Far to much drama, far to much soliciting beginning within hours of joining, far too many freind requests from people I never met..(I never even posted. How do they know my interests without extreme tracking?)(I hate personalized search too. Boolean was real, the results are far too commercial to be worth a poop today.)

  I mostly blame FB for my having to change my ph# which was basically the same here since 1958.  I've gotten 3 solicitation calls so far this year. All from local health businesses, likely because I gave another business my phone number....my new doctor.   My last number, the selling of my number to health care solicitors was more obvious, likely done by my health insurance company. (I block it if I call now, and don't release it for callbacks anymore. It may kill me; but the stress of releasing it might anyhow.)

  Finally, after some research, I'm not convinced that the verdicts in court cases over the theft of the FB idea as a whole were correct. Even with a total about-face of policy, I don't know if I could support the platform due to the CEOs earlier reputation. Kinda like Apple vs MS; besides the operations, I trusted "Quiet Bill" more than "Showboat Steve" (meeting them and watching Bill do binary while I played with W-beta floppys, I cancelled my coding classes and focused on 3 old command line laguagesllangu. Bill especially deserved all that money. "Driven to change the world" barely covers it. 😉  

Darn I hoped "spellwreck" was still sleeping 😕

We have a Facebook page as well as an internet site at Reading Society of Model Engineers, and feel both have done well to promote our interests in the railroading hobby.  I also find my personal Facebook page to be of assistance in finding others with RR interest as well as information and inspiration.  Even if they do track my personal spending preferences, they must be perplexed at inability to match my spending habits with their big advertisers.  Of course, I wouldn't mind if Atlas O, Golden Gate Depot, or similar were to email me with purchase suggestions.  Naturally, you should carefully consider what others have said in this thread if you are in the witness protection program.

I thoroughly enjoy facebook. It lets me stay connected to old friends and see what they and their families are doing. I'm a big ww2 warbirds fan and the main organization that flies those planes is very active, from the winter maintenance, to restoration videos, to videos at airshows

Not sure how people get  robocalls due to FB.   I've been on Facebook for at least 14 years.   Never a robo call.

You just have to go thru all your settings.  A pain at first.    My personal FB has just my family and band members as friends.   I even use my Google Voice phone number with it. NO ties to my "real" number.

The reason I keep Facebook is because of our music pages.   Marketing our band on FB has paid huge dividends over the years.   The demographic that hits the most engagements is the 45-55 crowd, with fully 70% being women.

all of my family members live nowhere close to me, so we can keep up in realtime thru FB, as far as sharing pictures and other life events.

Does FB have issues?  Of course it does.  As with anything, just be careful...just like you have to be on OGR orany public online presence.   

Also, these days most "kids" Use Instagram and Twitter, and keep FB as a backup.

Twitter is nice with the character limit.   We (the band) market on all three platforms, and it works.

I've been on Facebook for a couple of years after avoiding it for more than a decade, basically to join a private/moderated group (Original Mini Truckers) to reconnect with some people I ran with in my truck club/car club days. I set it up so I have to accept a friend request for someone who wants to friend me. I've since joined a couple of O scale/O gauge groups, one related to micro layouts, and one related to industrial/shelf layouts (all private/moderated). I don't get a lot of annoying E-mails, messages, or notifications on my phone or computer (used my GMail e-mail address). I don't put out private information and don't post a lot of comments. Facebook is pretty much what you make it, but having worked with computers for so long, my view is there is very little privacy left.

Where a lot of people mess up is they post every single thing they do on social media, then wonder why the house gets broken into while on vacation, etc. If you don't want the general public to see it, don't post it. I do have some issues with targeted marketing, but sadly that comes with the territory of YouTube/Google, Twitter and Facebook/Instagram. They watch what you're watching and offer content to match your interests. That's a business decision as a lot of it is for you to see ads from sponsors. It becomes a personal decision how much you're willing to tolerate in this area.

No way....they produce enough hot air to power a large city....and enough B.S. to fertilize the Bronx botanical garden.... 

Ads? Facebook is a free site, like here. I tolerate them because it keeps the site free for us to use. 

OK I know most of you blokes probably know this but I'm usually 10 years behind everyone when it comes to the internet.

I just found out you can check out facebook forums without joining....... I googled "Facebook O scale" and came up with a lot of top modelling way above my head, top stuff just could not keep up with it, at 76 years old I can't change my "Mr Average" modelling style so it looks like I failed my first facebook test, guess you blokes here will have to put up with me stumbling  along at the bench or the layout at least it doesn't depress me I'm happy doing what I do I know my place. I just hope I haven't done anything silly to tie me into the book.

Roo.

In my case, I find pop-up ads more related to my Google searches than my Facebook groups. Anyone want to suggest not searching for anything?

Roo posted:

...I just found out you can check out facebook forums without joining...

Yes, you can look at certain FB pages without joining. However, as soon as you go to ANY FB page, FB sets a tracking cookie on your computer, whether you have logged in or not! And from that point on, FB knows about every web site you visit.

Would you like to know what Faceplant CEO Mark Zuckerberg really thinks about you? CLICK HERE.

Rich Melvin posted:

Roo posted:

...I just found out you can check out facebook forums without joining...

Yes, you can look at certain FB pages without joining. However, as soon as you go to ANY FB page, FB sets a tracking cookie on your computer, whether you have logged in or not! And from that point on, FB knows about every web site you visit.

Would you like to know what Faceplant CEO Mark Zuckerberg really thinks about you? CLICK HERE.

It certainly gives you something to think about. I better go out and buy some tape! Roo.

I tend to agree with Rich about FB (hint,I don't have an account). Arguing Google does similar things is not a defense, that is like the kid telling his parents they shouldn't be upset he is vaping bc all the other kids are doing it,too. It also ignores that with google it is easier to protect yourself and your exposure is different than Facebook depending on how you use google's products.

Put it this way,FB's basic philosophy is they can do anything they want and then says 'well,it is legal'. FB does everything they can to probe what you are doing,even if you figure out your privacy settings you are exposed. Everything you post on FB is theirs,every message,every photo,everything is theirs and their basic business model is to exploit that. Tracking cookies basically is like having a bug planted on your computer, they are getting information on you and selling it, it is why ads pop up bc you wrote something in an email,you surfed for information elsewhere.

They also basically allow third party people on the FB world and allow them pretty much unlimited access to your data, and likely still are, Cambridge analytics was not a bug in their code (I know that for a fact, I know people who work for third party developers,FB openly told them they could get unlimited access to user data). If you go on facebook go in knowing that you are on their to be exploited and used, that it is designed to make it impossible to keep your information from others, that they deliberately make it so if you don't check constantly you lose what you want to see then to find it exposes you to all kinds of tracking and ads that are almost malware, you can't assume good intent and keep that in mind when using it. You can use a fake name on there, but because of their intrusion into your computer or phone, I guarantee you they know your real name,it isn't even difficult. I have friends (unlike myself) who are experts at things like big data and data mining,at how much 'metadata' is a joke in terms of privacy, and you get the point.

Take a look at how FB was founded,take a look at what they do vs what they say, and it isn't pretty,as are neither Zuckerberg or Sandberg,personally I think they are almost sociopath like in not caring about what they do

I am not saying FB isn't worth it, there are some great things on there, groups, companies have sites on there (though I try to avoid companies who only do facebook,if they don't have a website I try not to use them,not that a website can't hack you),just be aware of the potential cost of using it and that they not only aren't your friend, they also might be actively helping those who are worse. Again,this is true of social media in general and Google is no saint, but FB IMO is not worth the risk personally, and the convenience of knowing my cousin's 2nd wife is now an ex in realtime doesn't matter to me

Facebook....Is it worth it?

NO

I found FB to be rather boring most of the time, I do not have a account however my wife does and also has stock in it,  I asked her to get rid of it but noooo,  it will make money she said.  I am not a fan of any large tech companies, I believe they have far to much power.

Nev, do you like sea urchins?  I tried them once in a restaurant near Grand Central Stn in NYC when i was on vacation.  Haven't had them since.  Friend told me I should try Fb so I set up American O-Scale in the UK as a closed group and I've also let the kids contact me and share what youngsters call jokes.  

Still enjoying life, member of several O-scale, D&H, Ludgershall groups, etc.  Try it you can always never use it ever again!

Jason

I've been on it since 2009, and the benefits outweigh the burdens for me. I use it primarily for keeping up with family, and for membership in the numerous FB groups that reflect my disparate interests, including 3 rail trains. You just need to be aware of privacy management. As for privacy online, no such thing exists, and even the major credit rating bureaus and banks have been compromised. Its likely that our"private" info is out there everywhere. So much for the modern world.

Lots of correct and incorrect info on this thread. Even by people I would expect would know better. 

I am an IT Security Solutions Director by trade. Do I use FB? Yes, but I know what I'm doing and have systems and controls in place to protect me and my privacy. I could scare the socks off people if I wanted to, but it comes down to personal education, tolerance for risk, and privacy. It's not just FB. The whole world has changed. AI and ML are pouring over videos and audio of you and your family. Anyone have an Amazon Alexa? We do. But if you don't know what you are doing I would think twice about putting a live microphone in your house. So you really have two choices... 1. Get educated and take precautions or 2. Don't participate. Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, you really won't have a choice anymore. Your data is being gathered and sold today.

Here is a fun example... I was in the office building where I used to work. I don't have access to their Wi-Fi any longer obviously, but since I forgot to "forget" that network on my iPhone something interesting happened. When I got home and got onto FB (On my PC, not my phone) I got a message asking me to give information about my former employer. It said "We see that you recently visited XYZ". So because my phone recognized the SSID for that Wi-Fi and associated it to my phone, even though I didn't actually connect it knew where I was, and then passed that information to FB. There is more going on behind the scenes than most people realize...

I started and manage the 2R/P48 group, S Scale group, 3R to 2R conversion group and a few others. I find that our posts are far deeper and more hands-on than over here. Sort of the way this site used to be in the early 2000's. Sharing video, photos, etc... is much easier on FB. Not to mention how well it integrates with mobile devices. I can attend a show and stream live video to my group from my phone. Pretty cool.

Can it be used in a safe manner? Yes. Is it safe/private right out of the box with no education/settings/controls/3rd party apps and hardware? I'd say probably not. Is it changing everyday? Yes, and you have to keep up with it.