Garbled Sounds from NIB "Spirit of the Union Pacific"

As an addendum (possible cause?), PSX units are in place between the track an TIU channel.  TIU is a new Rev L.

I would call MTH for the best information getting your engine back on the layout and running correctly.

Dave

david1 posted:

I would call MTH for the best information getting your engine back on the layout and running correctly.

Dave

Good idea!  I will attempt to speak to a technician today. 

However, I will also make every attempt to not send it to them for repair, as the last engine that was DOA took over 5 months and multiple attempts to repair.  I would much prefer sending it to my dealer.

I'd consider trying a reload of the sound and chain files as a start.

Scott,

Remove the PSX devices temporarily and see if things improve.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Scott,

Remove the PSX devices temporarily and see if things improve.

Barry,

I will perform this test first and if necessary, perform a reload of the sound & chain files.

My dealer's technician stated there are known issues with the PSX and advised the same test but I am struggling to understand how the PSX could cause this problem.  It only occurs with a select few new PS3 units and the PSX has been outstanding in limiting the damage caused by the sporadic derailment.  Perhaps I will be eating crow tonight! 

The PSX-AC needs to be on the input to the TIU channel. Try Barry's suggestion and remove the PSX's. If that works relocate the PSX-ACs to the input side of the TIU.

I have PSX-ACs on my TIU channels on the entering side (between PH-180 bricks and TIU) and everything works fine. They have been there for at least 4 years now with no problems. I have never tried them on the outputs of the TIU, but others here have reported problems when trying that. However, I don't remember what specific problems they reported?

If that doesn't work, then as GRJ says, it could be the sound file. Might be that anyway, but removing the PSX sounds like an easier thing to try first. 

1) I by-passed the PSX ...no effect.  Performed a factory reset - no effect.  I then re-examined the wiring configuration and realized the PSX is wired between the Z4000 and the TIU, so my original post was in error.  Reinstalled the PSX back into the circuit.

2) I accessed the MTH site and downloaded the chain file.  During the DCS load to the engine, a few sectors were slow in loading but overall a successful load.  When done, the engine initially sounded correct.  When I hit engine start-up, it then made a high pitch noise so I killed the power before deleting the engine.   Turned power back on and the engine made the beeps etc, then normal start-up sounds.  Deleted the engine from the application and reloaded.  When I hit engine start-up, the engine went silent then made the high pitch sound followed by the garbled screeching. 

3) Concerned that I did not follow the DCS Companion instructions exactly, I repeated the reload process and the instructions exactly (TIU off, etc).  Reload was successful but I also noticed there were 3 or 4 sectors that were slow in loading.  Normal sound came on, then when engine start-up was pressed - no sounds but smoke kept running.  Garbled noises returned.  

Could there be a loose board or is it suspected to be damaged?

I defer to the more knowledgeable GRJ, Barry, Stan etc.) from here.

Sounds like you were ok with your PSX where it was. At least mine have been trouble free in that location and most of my engines are PS3 diesels. 

RTR12 -

Have you experienced this issue on any of your new PS3 engines or am I just lucky?

Unfortunately, I guess you are just lucky?

I have not experienced this on any of mine. I will defer to the more knowledgeable again here, but I was wondering if it's possible that the sound file itself could possibly be corrupt? I have not had this problem, just a wild guess. I have had very few problems with any of my new MTH engines and nothing like this at all.

 I have a recently purchased 0-8-0. For a week it had no chuff and the most horrific sounding whistle I've ever heard. It was new and before I send anything back I like to run it as much as possible to see if there are any other issues that need to be taken care of.  It ran fine as far as speed and control.  Started it up one night and everything was fine. The chuff was there and the whistle sounded correct. It's been running fine now for months. The other night I had a similar experience to yours on startup. It seemed like it was trying to make every sound in the file all at once. I shut it down. Left the layout powered up and re tried it later. Started up and has been fine since.

Okay...I'll bite...what is a PS...what does it do?  Should we all have PSXs installed??

SD60M posted:

Okay...I'll bite...what is a PS...what does it do?  Should we all have PSXs installed??

Basically a modern day circuit breaker that responds in nanoseconds.  There is one per throttle and they are placed between the power supply and TIU channel.  Any derailments, short circuits as a train is going thru a switch, etc, and the unit trips.  There is an option to install a buzzer to notify you the unit has activated.

They may be pricey, but it pales in comparison to the cost of repairs to modern day train electronics.  I am very happy with the product.

http://www.dccspecialties.com/products/psx_ac.htm

What position is the DCC DCS switch in?  Any other possible interference?  Why only let the dealer run it 1 foot???  Go to dealer layout and run it.  Does problem go away?

Occasionally directly after a reload of the Flash and or sound file, primarily sound file, you may get garbled and loud sounds.  Power off.  Wait 30 secs for processor to fully shutdown and restart.  Should be fine.  I have never seen this issue or had customer ask about this.  So I would be interested to find out why you have this problem with multiple engines.  G

You might contact MTH Monday, they could have a corrupted file on their end.

ScottM posted:

SD60M posted:

Okay...I'll bite...what is a PS...what does it do?  Should we all have PSXs installed??

Basically a modern day circuit breaker that responds in nanoseconds.  There is one per throttle and they are placed between the power supply and TIU channel.  Any derailments, short circuits as a train is going thru a switch, etc, and the unit trips.  There is an option to install a buzzer to notify you the unit has activated.

They may be pricey, but it pales in comparison to the cost of repairs to modern day train electronics.  I am very happy with the product.

http://www.dccspecialties.com/products/psx_ac.htm

I will second your thoughts here, also my reason for getting the PSX-ACs. I am quite pleased with my PSX-ACs as well and no blown electronics so far.  I added the alarm (on PSX) and all of the indicator LEDs near my layout power controls. 

This maybe different, but I remember something like this happening before. MTH released a corrected sound set.

Maybe you are reloading a corrupted file over and over? I would get in touch with MTH and see if they can research this further if they haven't started already.

At any point, when you do finally load a chain file, the board will reset itself and make a beeping noise. Disregard that and any slow loads. As long as it finishes fully, you should be good to go. I would have guessed only the sound file would need changing? I guess it depends on what's actually wrong?

 It could even be a wiring defect for all we know right now.

Thanks for the replies on the PSX set-up.  Any chance you could post a photo of what this set-up looks like?  Some of us (me) probably need that.

Thanks in advance.

This morning I tested the engine and the nasty noises remained.  I then loaded a different sound file & presto bingo - success!

Next, I reloaded the original sound file that was previously unsuccessful but this time it worked.  Powering the system on & off several times and it still performing.

Next step is to continue checking it over the course of time.

Thanks to everyone for the input!  I would not have thought to try a different file and it makes my day to think I don't have to return it for repairs.

BTW; The attached video is of a different engine that had the same problem (as well as a few others).

"    ScottM posted:
    I just took delivery of a 20-20953 "Spirit of the Union Pacific" and immediately experienced horrific noises after loading it into DCS and initiating start-up (see attached video)."

My experience with the 20-3714-1 O Scale Premier 4-8-8-4 Big Boy Steam Engine (Oil Burner) With Proto-Sound 3.0 (Hi-Rail Wheels) was very similar to yours.  I returned to MTH for repair and they loaded the "correct sound file" and returned it.
(The engine and factory foam packing were damaged during the return shipping as if it was dropped on it's nose.)

It still didn't work right in DCS mode and they paid for return shipping and promised to expedite the repair.  I returned it in big bubble wrap on or about May 5th and haven't heard anything.  The tracking number did show it arrived.

I really wanted to run the Quillable whistle with my tablet.

Here's a couple of pics one PSX-AC and LEDs in benchwork. The PSX is mounted on the back of the transformer cart, LEDs in layout fascia above the cart. The manual should be available at the link above in ScottM's post. It will show jumpers, wiring and connection details. I forget which LED is what on the layout? Guess someone needs to do some more labeling...

SD60M posted:

Thanks for the replies on the PSX set-up.  Any chance you could post a photo of what this set-up looks like?  Some of us (me) probably need that.

Thanks in advance.

Attached is my PSX set-up.  It appears the units are a different vintage than RTR12's.  In either case, the blue object is the add-on buzzer that must be purchased separately.  The in-feeds are from the transformer throttles, the outputs go to the input side of the TIU channels.  

My friend recently received a brand new Steam 2-6-6-6 C&O RaiKing PS3 engine and it did the same thing after start up.  Crazy sounds that were terrible.  His dealer got a replacement from MTH and the new one is fine.  So there must be some type of problem with the PS3 files.  

That's why I recommend downloading and reloading the sound files.   It's also easy to try a different sound file as a test to see if it's the specific sound file or some locomotive fault.

What does the PSX do. Is it needed? 

Dave

It is a fast-acting electronic circuit breaker.

Is it needed?  Some say yes; some say no.  I would say not on a circuit powered by a PH180, whose internal breaker is fast.

That's what I thought

I use a fast acting fuse on all channels. No need for the PSX IMO.

Dave

My PSX-ACs are probably 5 years old or so now. One difference is that I added all the terminal strips. Tony's Train Exchange had a terminal kit back when I got these, which I also ordered at the time. They could very well have been revised since I got them?

How do these "horrible sounds" make it through the rigorous "pre-sale" testing that all MTH engines are reported to undergo...you know, removed from the packaging from China, put on a test track, fired up and tested to make sure no problems are shipped to consumers? 

Does MTH still go through that process?  I am always amazed at how no engine that I buy from MTH ever looks like it has been un-packaged and re-packaged.

Is this QC step still a part of the game??

I would assume the engines get tested at the factory.

I don't think MTH could stay in business if every engine was unpacked in the U.S., tested, and then repackaged.  Not only because of the labor involved, but also the handling damage that would inevitably occur. Furthermore, what would be the required duration to find such issues? 

I am not suggesting that getting a defective unit is acceptable, but I am very relieved to know that this problem was a file download/processing issue that can be remedied by the informed consumer.  This is preferable to having to return a NIB unit to the dealer or to MTH for defective electronics.   

The next step is to understand how the code gets scrambled so that it can be prevented at the factory.  While this piece of the puzzle is beyond my skill set, I am confident there are those on this forum that are more than capable.

ScottM wrote, "I don't think MTH could stay in business if every engine was unpacked in the U.S., tested, and then repackaged.  Not only because of the labor involved, but also the handling damage that would inevitably occur. Furthermore, what would be the required duration to find such issues?"

Well, for the record, that was the MTH party-line...I did not dream it up.

SD60M posted:

Well, for the record, that was the MTH party-line...I did not dream it up.

Didn't know that! 

I'm sure they audit incoming product but can't see 100% inspection unless there is a known defect that was discovered after product release.