Getting back into model trains after a 21 year hiatus

I had an early Lionel NYC RS11. nice running engine and eventually sold it a number of years ago for around 200. It’s tough to find anything in your price range as the new stuff costs so much. The used stuff 15 to 20 years old is selling almost at what their new dealer pricing was. But there are deals out there especially if they have a make offer option.

I’m pretty much all steam. But have a soft spot for Alco’s. Had a first production Atlas RS1. Great looker. Nightmare to work on and terrible runner without cruise. Sold it.  Their next versions had EOB and finally I believe they went with ERR. The used market pricing reflects the changes and even the early versions command around 300.

I purchased an Atlas RS3 in their Trainman line.Liked enough that the following week I purchased a second rd. number. These have ERR cruise. A little chunky looking but overall nice models that run well.

I know you don’t have DCS. But in my opinion. The best Alco on the market has always been the MTH RS1. Affordable. Some great sounds, 4 pickup rollers, easy to work on and close to the detail of a premier model at a Railking price. I have 3 of them and 2 on order. I would pretty much focus on only Proto 3 models. These engines seem to be produced often enough in a variety of road names there should be an abundance of parts or ways to keep them running. The only issue I know of was on one run the smoke unit tended to run hot. But there was a fix for it.

Weaver has produced models with TMCC or without. Williams Bachman has conventional RS3’s that aren’t bad looking. Trouble is if you need to add TMCC to an engine you perhaps buy for a song. You will be well north of 300 but the time your done upgrading it.

I thought of keeping an SP Daylight from my estate sale haul, but looked into TMCC conversions, and decided against it; this forum's posts helped with that determination, in that I'd spend a pretty penny and it wouldn't really increase resale value if I ever decided to part with it. I'd love some steam locomotives, but I'm more than happy with diesels only for now. I think my first steam locomotive was some crappy starter set 0-4-0 or 0-6-0, and the nicer stuff has always been out of reach. I'll admit, I'm spoiled and only want TMCC, so conventional is off the table for me. But glad you also have a soft spot for Alcos. It seems the market is flooded with EMD stuff, and you don't see much by way of Fairbanks-Morse, Alco, or even Baldwin (which I know were absolute crap in actual locomotives).

How do I know if an Atlas engine has cruise or not? This was one of the locomotives I was eyeing (but one that has the C&O road name, though I'd love an SP locomotive):

https://archive.atlasrr.com/OLoco/arc-otmrsd45.htm

This is the Lionel I was also eyeing on:

http://www.lionel.com/products...diesel-4611-6-28522/

I'd ideally want to run both locomotives as a lashup, so I guess cruise might not be as important if neither has it, though it seems like a nice feature to have. I'm not ecstatic about something that's a pain in the rear to work on, if the need presents itself.

Aren't MTH locomotives backwards compatible with TMCC, or do they require DCS to run?

Welcome to the Forum!

I have an assortment of ALCOs' from RS1's, RS3's, RS11's and even a RS27. Most have some form of command control. I agree that the MTH RS1's are one of the best ever done by MTH. I have 3 Lionel RS11's w/TMCC Odyssey, and they are all great runners.
One Atlas RS1 is in my collection. It has TMCC.

What control system do you have? Cab1L's will give you access to most Legacy features in the newer locos.

Take a look at the Lionel LionChief + 2.0, and any Legacy/Bluetooth engines. Lot's of features in the LC line engines.

Several of the auction sites are Forum sponsors and have good deals on a regular basis.

MTH locos will only run on DCS and with no new hardware on the market you would need to look for a used TIU and remote (at crazy prices). I use a Remote Commander to access basic functions of DCS locos.

Bob

Looking through Atlas’ archives is a little confusing. The heading at the top of the page that list features mentions the ERR cruise say on the RS1’s and 3’s as a feature. It’s the features of the current run. The very first RS1 featured no cruise. Cruise was added to the next models by using EOB. then eventually switching over to ERR. It’s really not clear as to how all or when it took place. I have an Atlas 0-6-0 switcher that has EOB. Dated at 2010 production. So I would think the ERR would be after that. I have 2 RS3’s with ERR. I believe the first runs of them had no cruise. I bought them from dealer stock. I think it was a 4 or 5 year wait from announcement to being made. I’ll see if I can take a picture of the box. Often times all the features are listed on the end flap. A lot of times people selling have no idea what the engine has.

The Lionel model should be a good one. Looks from the same era as the NYC I had. Nice engine in it’s day and still a good one. I just pushed my operating era back a number of years was the reason for selling.

@Paul Khoury posted:

Aren't MTH locomotives backwards compatible with TMCC, or do they require DCS to run?

Under command operation, MTH locomotives running under DCS can co-exist with TMCC (or Legacy) locomotives on the same track -- the two signal systems do not interfere with each other. The "compatibility" refers to the ability of the DCS Track Interface Unit (TIU), to send TMCC commands thru an adapter cable to the serial port of your Base-1, thus allowing you to run TMCC locomotives in command mode from a DCS remote.

Being that the TMCC base itself does not have the ability to send commands to anyone else's equipment, the only way to operate MTH locomotives with a Cab-1 is in conventional mode via the separate-sale Track Power Controller, which is basically a Cab-1 controlled transformer handle (MTH's TIU can perform this trick without any add-ons). Of course that rules out running them on the same track as locos running under TMCC.

---PCJ

@RSJB18 posted:

Welcome to the Forum!

What control system do you have? Cab1L's will give you access to most Legacy features in the newer locos.

Take a look at the Lionel LionChief + 2.0, and any Legacy/Bluetooth engines. Lot's of features in the LC line engines.

Thank you Bob.

In regards to what control system - CAB-1 and BASE-1 (the original one with DB9 to hook up to a computer). I thought of about upgrading to a Legacy base, but then I'd still need at least a CAB-1L. I do have a Legacy locomotive on order (always wanted an F40PH, and recently acquired 7 beautiful NIB Aluminum N&W passenger cars).

I looked at Lionchief engines, but when I read they are paired with their own dedicated remote, that was a deal breaker for me. The F40PH I got does have bluetooth/Legacy, but I wasn't planning on lashing it up with freight units. I've never had passenger cars or a dedicated passenger locomotive, so it was somewhat of a splurge. Plus, I love hearing the K5LA.

The new Base 3 is supposed to be released later this year. It will run all Lionel products with the smartphone app. Cab-1L remotes will work too.

Might be best to wait to see how it goes once the experts around here start using it.

@RSJB18 posted:

The new Base 3 is supposed to be released later this year. It will run all Lionel products with the smartphone app. Cab-1L remotes will work too.

Might be best to wait to see how it goes once the experts around here start using it.

If it doesn't break the bank, I might check it out later on. I just wanted something I could use with my existing setup. I was probably going to try the F40PH with my phone/app, but like I mentioned, I would run that as a single unit with 7 passenger cars trailing behind. I'd feel funny lashing it up, unless I stuck an N&W steam loco in front (kinda like you see on most all excursions these days on Class 1 mainlines).

@Dave_C posted:

Looking through Atlas’ archives is a little confusing. The heading at the top of the page that list features mentions the ERR cruise say on the RS1’s and 3’s as a feature. It’s the features of the current run. The very first RS1 featured no cruise. Cruise was added to the next models by using EOB. then eventually switching over to ERR. It’s really not clear as to how all or when it took place. I have an Atlas 0-6-0 switcher that has EOB. Dated at 2010 production. So I would think the ERR would be after that. I have 2 RS3’s with ERR. I believe the first runs of them had no cruise. I bought them from dealer stock. I think it was a 4 or 5 year wait from announcement to being made. I’ll see if I can take a picture of the box. Often times all the features are listed on the end flap. A lot of times people selling have no idea what the engine has.

The Lionel model should be a good one. Looks from the same era as the NYC I had. Nice engine in it’s day and still a good one. I just pushed my operating era back a number of years was the reason for selling.

Responding to the part I bolded - you got that right. Or, some of the locos I've also eyed, don't specifically state Odyssey, but while doing more reading (with lots of google searches pointing back to this site), say otherwise. At least Atlas has their archive section, though it's confusing; darn near all of Lionel's archive listings point to PDF manuals, and every single link is bad. I can't imagine how much space a couple of PDFs really took on their server... (total sarcasm here)

Welcome!!!!

Take your time... there is a lot to catch up on.  Is your RR empire setup and running to your liking at the moment?  What are you using for track and power?

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

Welcome!!!!

Take your time... there is a lot to catch up on.  Is your RR empire setup and running to your liking at the moment?  What are you using for track and power?

I'm not fully there yet. I ordered some O72 curves and have some 30" straight track sections. Previously, I used O27, with mostly O54 curves, but a lot of my straight sections have since got some rust on them. For the time being, it'll just be track on the floor. Eventually, it'll be something set up on plywood.

Thankfully, for freight and passenger rolling stock, I'm set there. Definitely interested in seeing what options I have for non-O27 switches, too.

You may want to grab some layout design software... there are several popular ones used by members that don't have a steep learning curve.  I use SCARM... and, like most of the others it has an extensive library of track from a multitude of manufacturers and it's free up to 50 sections so you can get your feet wet on the cheap.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

You may want to grab some layout design software... there are several popular ones used by members that don't have a steep learning curve.  I use SCARM... and, like most of the others it has an extensive library of track from a multitude of manufacturers and it's free up to 50 sections so you can get your feet wet on the cheap.

Just googled it and it looks pretty nifty. Nice it runs in Windows, since I would've been disappointed if it were another crappy phone app. I might have to check it out, especially for the future when I do something more exciting, layout-wise. For now, a simple oval with maybe two switches would be good (but again, I need to figure out what curvature of switches are out there).

@Paul Khoury posted:

Thank you Bob.

In regards to what control system - CAB-1 and BASE-1 (the original one with DB9 to hook up to a computer). I thought of about upgrading to a Legacy base, but then I'd still need at least a CAB-1L. I do have a Legacy locomotive on order (always wanted an F40PH, and recently acquired 7 beautiful NIB Aluminum N&W passenger cars).

I looked at Lionchief engines, but when I read they are paired with their own dedicated remote, that was a deal breaker for me. The F40PH I got does have bluetooth/Legacy, but I wasn't planning on lashing it up with freight units. I've never had passenger cars or a dedicated passenger locomotive, so it was somewhat of a splurge. Plus, I love hearing the K5LA.

Lionel's Lionchief line actually has three (3) different variations, Lionchief - Lionchief Plus (+) - and Lionchief Plus (+) 2.0.

Not all require dedicated remotes. The Lionchief + 2.0 engines will run off TMCC or Legacy command control and are very nice engines IMHO and, as was pointed out, all the Lionchief variations will run off one remote when the new Base 3 is available for purchase. You might want to check out the Lionchief + 2.0 NW-2 switchers in last year's Lionel catalogue.

In addition, all of them now run off Bluetooth with the free Lionel App. See the attached chart.

Finally, search for and check out the many fine layout designs that our Forum designers have posted over the years. You may find one that suits your needs.

The only Lionchief locomotives I consider are LionChief Plus 2.0 as they will run with my Legacy system and don't exhibit all the quirky control issues that I have with Bluetooth locomotives.  Also, I don't want to run my trains with a phone, I'm fine with a real remote.