Gifted Lionel O27 Trains - Repairing The One Stuck in Reverse

good find.

I had someone selling one and gave it to me.

it started a train give away at our AGTTA show in June and Dec.

The tender is for the 241. They are both postwar pieces.
As I recall the 241 is a scarce piece.
Very nice gift

The other items are modern era.

Maybe not as scarce as I thought, bears further investigation:
Here is what Tandem Associates has.

The 241 scout engine is not that valuable and is from around 1965 according to Greenberg's guide. Personally I like the tender that comes with the scout engines.

The set that uses DC can be converted to AC but you will loose direction control. You need to put a bridge rectifier between the electric pick-up and the motor, the bridge rectifier converts the AC to useable DC power to the motor. Or you can wire in the bridge rectifier to the track power hook-up, as long as you don't run the DC set on AC only.

Lee Fritz 

Thanks everyone.  No matter on rarity, just think it's neat to save them.

Cheryl and all, here is a reference:http://www.tandem-associates.c...onel/lionelident.htm
This reference is clear and easy to understand!
Ralph

RJL posted:

Cheryl and all, here is a reference:http://www.tandem-associates.c...onel/lionelident.htm
This reference is clear and easy to understand!
Ralph

You can wire the DC engine with a manual reverse using a DPDT switch. I don't know much about the 241, but I have its cousins 239 and 237. They are good engines. 

The 241 scout engine is not that valuable and is from around 1965 according to Greenberg's guide.

I guess scarce was an overstatement. I took a look at the Greenberg guide and saw that they do not list it as being particularly hard to find. It is listed for a bit more than some of the other scouts.

I still think they are much less common then engines like the 244, 246, 237, 1060, 1061, and 1062. I see those engines all the time, but I rarely have seen a 241.

There are a couple of scouts that do book for considerably more than the typical one, but the 241 isn't one of them.

C W Burfle posted:

The 241 scout engine is not that valuable and is from around 1965 according to Greenberg's guide.

I guess scarce was an overstatement. I took a look at the Greenberg guide and saw that they do not list it as being particularly hard to find. It is listed for a bit more than some of the other scouts.

I still think they are much less common then engines like the 244, 246, 237, 1060, 1061, and 1062. I see those engines all the time, but I rarely have seen a 241.

There are a couple of scouts that do book for considerably more than the typical one, but the 241 isn't one of them.

FWIW I doubt this one is worth much, as the casting is pretty rough on it, tool marks, flashing, etc..  I'm just glad I saved them from the trash

The 241 only came in Uncataloged Sets issued 1965-66 time period, and the major retailer was J.C. Penney, along with a few lesser known distributors.  It was never offered as a Lionel Cataloged Set, but it really isn't what you would call rare.  The tender most often used is what you show as the 1130T streamline tender, which is very common.  If it runs, then it was a great save from the trash pile, as some do wind up there for no good reason for trashing it.  From Schmid's book, there were a total of eleven different sets that used the 241 as the lead loco, if you are wondering.

Charly posted:

Thanks everyone.  No matter on rarity, just think it's neat to save them.

The DC loco can be equipped with a basic electronic E-unit, like the ones used in low-end Lionel sets (and often available for little or nothing as leftovers from command conversions).

Although I haven't done it or seen it done to these particular switchers, it should be possible to shoehorn a basic Lionel reversing board into that unit. Only dilemma is that the e-unit if bought new, may actually cost a little bit more than the loco is worth

Very nice gift. Enjoy 

C.W.,

I think the hard-to-find scout engine that you may be thinking of is the 240 that came with the Sears military set. I remember Bob Royer from the UTA hunting unsuccessfully for one for years. I don't think I ever saw one either.

Jim

Nice! The 241 looks to be in pretty good condition. I bet with some cleaning and lube it will run. Lionel also made the DC switcher in AC versions so I'm sure it could be converted.

expensive,rare or not,glad you got them instead of the trash man.

Charly posted:

RJL posted:

Cheryl and all, here is a reference:http://www.tandem-associates.c...onel/lionelident.htm
This reference is clear and easy to understand!
Ralph

Charly,
First off, I'm sorry for misspelling your name.
As for my reference post, you are welcome.
Sometimes there are some Lionel '0' &'027' gauge items not covered, also there was another reference:  "Lionel Post War Library," but for some reason was taken off-line.  
This:  "Lionel Post War Library" was also informative and had photographs of the items, described.
Enjoy,
Ralph 

this site?

http://postwarlionel.com/

Have not tested the DC loco yet, but the 241 runs F/B no problem.  The 8040 however only runs in reverse. lol.  Thanks for all the interest.  I think they're a neat little bunch, D)

The 8040 runs reverse only, and not at all when the lever is moved.  I am not well versed in  PW repairs, is there a simple fix?  Just curious.  Thanks.

I think the 8040 has a manual reversing switch. If so, there are two common problems. One of them might be affecting your engine.
Locomotives with manual reversing or two position e-units have a double wound field (two sets of field wires). Only one field wire is used at a time.

Sometimes one of the field wires is touching a ground. So when the two position e-unit or the manual switch is in the position to select that field, the engine runs because only one field is active. But when the switch is in the other position, both fields are active. One through the switch, and one through the accidental ground. When both fields are active, they counteract each other and the motor does not run.

The other possibility is that one of the field wires is broken, and is no longer connected to the switch/e-unit.
It could be broken in other places too.

Here is Lionel's explosion diagram on your 8040.

Thanks, that helps.  Will check it out. 

I have a 8040 loco which was given to me in pieces. I put a bridge rectifier and manual reverse switch on it to run on an AC-powered O27 layout.

I also have postwar Scout locos mechanically similar to your #241. They will run just fine on DC power (better, perhaps) if you have an adequate transformer that puts out at least 30 watts DC. It might be easier for you to run them all on DC. You could just use a bridge rectifier on the output of an AC transformer.

The stuck-in-reverse problem could be a broken wire or failed switch. That is fairly easy to fix with basic electrical skills.

The #241 is a fairly ordinary and commonplace Scout loco. The only thing that might make it "rare" is the number and superficial details.

By this statement...

"I have a 8040 loco which was given to me in pieces. I put a bridge rectifier and manual reverse switch on it to run on an AC-powered O27 layout."

I am getting the impression that the 8040 is a DC locomotive.  Is this correct?

Charly posted:

By this statement...

"I have a 8040 loco which was given to me in pieces. I put a bridge rectifier and manual reverse switch on it to run on an AC-powered O27 layout."

I am getting the impression that the 8040 is a DC locomotive.  Is this correct?

I'm trying to remember just what I did on my 8040. It has been a while since I worked on it. Mine came in pieces and didn't include an e-unit or reversing switch or whatever the original equipment might have been. In the 1970's I believe Lionel was making some cheaper train sets that ran on DC.

I think the 8040 has a universal motor that runs on either AC or DC, but it has better speed control and runs quieter on DC so I put a bridge rectifier in it. As I recall it made jackrabbit starts so I also put a string of diodes in it to drop the voltage. Or maybe I just put a string of diodes in it instead of the bridge rectifier. In any case, it runs well for me now.

Maybe someone who has one in original condition can tell you more specifics. They are fairly easy to work on if you have basic electrical skills.

I have a Marx tender on Lionel trucks behind my 8040 loco.

See the drawing above. It has a universal (AC or DC) motor.

C W Burfle posted:

I think the 8040 has a manual reversing switch. If so, there are two common problems. One of them might be affecting your engine.
Locomotives with manual reversing or two position e-units have a double wound field (two sets of field wires). Only one field wire is used at a time.

Sometimes one of the field wires is touching a ground. So when the two position e-unit or the manual switch is in the position to select that field, the engine runs because only one field is active. But when the switch is in the other position, both fields are active. One through the switch, and one through the accidental ground. When both fields are active, they counteract each other and the motor does not run.

The other possibility is that one of the field wires is broken, and is no longer connected to the switch/e-unit.
It could be broken in other places too. 

Charly, can you see if your 8040 motor has different colors of field windings in the motor, like red and green? That would be an obvious indication of a double-wound field. Lionel used double-wound fields on some motors so a simpler reversing switch could be used. The exploded-view diagram appears to show a simple double-throw single-pole switch for reversing a double-wound motor. Mr Burfle's info should help you figure out the problem.

It would help if you took the shell off the 8040 and posted a photo of the chassis and motor. There is one screw through the top of the boiler, I think that's all that holds it together. The drive rods can remain attached to the wheels. Note how the crosshead parts slide out as you lift the shell off the frame.

Ok Gents, thanks for all the info, will post some pix over the weekend, am busy this week.  Appreciate all the interest, .  Everyone have a great week!!!