Has MTH conceded the Advanced Steam features to Lionel with Visionline Products ( Steam Whistle, pop off valve steam, dynamo, blow down, cylinder steam ) ?

I'll take a highly accurate, highly detailed and decent running locomotive from any manufacturer over any command system any day of the week.  I don't have a bias against any manufacturer than can meet this requirement. 

Features are almost irrelevant to me anymore outside of good running qualities and prototype accuracy.  Sound is kind of fun.  Command can be fun when it works correctly, but I could take it or leave it.  Not a big fan of smoke.

My favorite controller is still the MRC Model 77 Gold top DC hard wired cab controller that has a separate throttle and brake controller with full momentum.  Honestly the closest controller that felt to me what it might be like running a real train.  When you had the momentum on and had to put the brake into emergency, it still plowed through the rear of the train you missed on the track ahead of it.   It just came to a stop sooner than the service or quick service settings. 

My opinion of course.  Everyone has different preferences.  Nothing wrong or right in this hobby. 

Jonathan,

Agreed, and very well said.

MELGAR

No one has mentioned Sunset/3rd Rail as yet. I believe their approach to O gauge gives a good indication of what many buyers are looking for: high quality, accurate paint schemes, prototypical details, scale size, good sounds, smooth running. And no "advanced steam features." True, they are not inexpensive. You pays your money and takes your choice.

MELGAR

I personally have no skin in the SCALE Steam high end features game.

I own nearly every PW steamer except the Hudson, my only other Steamer is a Brass Williams J upgraded to Proto 3. I am very happy with it, it pulls like a champion of that era, and does not overheat on the grades at the club pulling 20 plus cars. 

I like the looks of Vision Line but personally would not spend a quality paint job for my car for one.

I have fun with the features I have and can RUN trains.

MELGAR posted:

No one has mentioned Sunset/3rd Rail as yet. I believe their approach to O gauge gives a good indication of what many buyers are looking for: high quality, accurate paint schemes, prototypical details, scale size, good sounds, smooth running. And no "advanced steam features." True, they are not inexpensive. You pays your money and takes your choice.

MELGAR

A good point. However many people WISH 3rd Rail offered the advanced steam features. I know there are many on this forum who would ALSO be MORE INCLINED  to buy 3rd Rail Steam , as opposed to a Lionel Visionline Engine, IF they had Advanced steam features. I'd still buy a 3rd Rail any day, but it would be so cool to have the newer Lionel features. 

That being said, I have NO PREFERENCE , as to one manufacturer vs the other. I do have a few 3rd Rail steamers, and I absolutely love all of them. They are my FAVORITE manufacturer. I have 2 GGD sets on order, and can't wait to get my D&RGW L-105 4-6-6-4 in GREEN

But if you were to tell me that  Lionel was coming out with my favorite locomotives in Brass hybrid, with advanced steam effects or a visionline version with all the bells and whistles, you better believe I will be buying it. Why? Because NOBODY else is making steam engines exciting like Lionel is right now.

And if all the above is true, then MTH is mainly catering to those who don't want all the bells and whistles, and want to pay less money - just calling it like it is. 

With all that being said, I love the MTH quality and just WISH they at least tried to offer people that DO want the features. 

David

I'd rather have it painted the correct color or spelled correctly over a smoke feature any day of the week.

MichRR714 posted:

I'd rather have it painted the correct color or spelled correctly over a smoke feature any day of the week.

Good for you, so would I! BUT, its not about the paint, its about features or no features. 

VintageClassics posted:

MichRR714 posted:

I'd rather have it painted the correct color or spelled correctly over a smoke feature any day of the week.

Good for you, so would I! BUT, its not about the paint, its about features or no features. 

My point is you can't have both with Lionel these days which is unfortunate for us enthusiasts.

MichRR714 posted:

VintageClassics posted:

MichRR714 posted:

I'd rather have it painted the correct color or spelled correctly over a smoke feature any day of the week.

Good for you, so would I! BUT, its not about the paint, its about features or no features. 

My point is you can't have both with Lionel these days which is unfortunate for us enthusiasts.

That is very true, unfortunately. As with the false green color on the Visionline Rio Grande 4-6-6-4s.

Vintage Classics,

       Yes I do believe MTH has conceded the advanced smoke effects such as whistle steam, cylinder steam, blow down steam etc as well as other effects such as a swinging bell to Lionel. However I have not heard MTH throw in the towel or make any concession statements either, I do not think at this point in time pursuing these effects would benefit MTH. 

      As GRJ said MTH’s steam whistle is awkward to use and if they did put it into more than two of their O gauge steam engine I am sure we would be hearing a lot more complaints on the forum.

      Two thing that bother me that has been stated by some is that MTH is problem free. I have seen a lot of MTH issues at our club since I have been a member. I cannot say if they are better or worse than Lionel’s issues but problem free? That’s a stretch. 

       Also as far as price I paid $600 for my Pennsylvania Lines H10 that came with a steam whistle and a swinging bell. The list price was $800. MTH’s H10 had a list just under $1000. I like the steam effects so I do not mind paying a little more for them. I am sure someone is going to say Lionel’s H10 was really a H9 but if you can accept a third rail you can overlook a lot of detail oversights.

      If you like MTH engines that’s fine, I like Lionel Legacy and TMCC stuff so that is what I buy.

JohnB

Norton posted:

KD nailed it. Some of us would rather have solid items that work out of the box. Let Lionel and their customers support the shipping industry. Keep it simple MTH. Less to break means fewer headaches.

Pete

I could not agree more....

JohnB posted:

Vintage Classics,

       Yes I do believe MTH has conceded the advanced smoke effects such as whistle steam, cylinder steam, blow down steam etc as well as other effects such as a swinging bell to Lionel. However I have not heard MTH throw in the towel or make any concession statements either, I do not think at this point in time pursuing these effects would benefit MTH. 

      As GRJ said MTH’s steam whistle is awkward to use and if they did put it into more than two of their O gauge steam engine I am sure we would be hearing a lot more complaints on the forum.

      Two thing that bother me that has been stated by some is that MTH is problem free. I have seen a lot of MTH issues at our club since I have been a member. I cannot say if they are better or worse than Lionel’s issues but problem free? That’s a stretch. 

       Also as far as price I paid $600 for my Pennsylvania Lines H10 that came with a steam whistle and a swinging bell. The list price was $800. MTH’s H10 had a list just under $1000. I like the steam effects so I do not mind paying a little more for them. I am sure someone is going to say Lionel’s H10 was really a H9 but if you can accept a third rail you can overlook a lot of detail oversights.

      If you like MTH engines that’s fine, I like Lionel Legacy and TMCC stuff so that is what I buy.

JohnB

Hi John,

I am with you. I believe as you do. It seems MTH has made a conscious decision to NOT pursue these effects. Probably cost benefit ratio, etc.

That's a fabulous deal you got on your H10 engine btw... Great looking engine, and fabulous UP TO DATE features... 

Appreciate everyone's input.  All great thoughts, and ideas shared by all... Different sides of the coin... 

As I stated earlier, Sunset 3rd Rail are my personal favorite steam locomotive manufacturer. I enjoy both MTH and Lionel for their various, cool models. However, i still feel that currently, in 2019, Lionel, and 3rd rail, seem to be ahead IMHO. 

Awesome discussion guys, 

David

Lionel maybe ahead of the game in another adpect.  Lionchief 2+ and lastest Legacy can be controlled with a cell phone app.  They amost got it to the point that even George Jetson can run the trains without having to screem out, "Jane!" every 5 minutes!  Power up track, and are ready to run.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Lionel maybe ahead of the game in another adpect.  Lionchief 2+ and lastest Legacy can be controlled with a cell phone app.  They amost got it to the point that even George Jetson can run the trains without having to screem out, "Jane!" every 5 minutes!  Power up track, and are ready to run.

Yes, good point also. And with Bruk and others doing the Lionchief Mods on older steam engines, this might be the best way to go as far as styeam engine upgrades.

I still buy scale steamers from MTH despite that Lionel scale steamers are generally more feature intensive. MTH has done some outstanding models that Lionel has not yet made, and the PS3 chuffing sounds are good enough. Some of MTH's scale die-cast models are also better done than the Lionel version, mostly due to more rounded boilers on the underside part of the model. This is not a rule, however, since some of Lionel's more recent models have this refinement, such as the S-3 and Reading T1, whereas the Premier T1 does not.

MTH has conceded the "drawbar" technology to Lionel. MTH's wireless drawbar is troublesome, to say the least, and requires ad-hoc fixes to stay in place.

MTH has also conceded to the robust sounds of Lionel's steamers. Its not a make or break difference, but Lionel still uses two- speakers in tenders that can accommodate them - and that is an awesome feature. But, not all tenders can hold 2-speakers.

MTH still has the best smoke units, but their lack of whistle steam IMO hurts their line-up. I cannot even play the variable whistle on my MTH steamers as activating it is a PITA. Pop-off valve, cylinder steam effects are not as fun so I don't see the incentive to incorporate those.

With that said, Lionel is pushing the price up and up on scale models, with some a couple of exceptions on small Legacy steamers.

I've always been more of an MTH guy, primarily because MTH's offices are within an hours drive of me and their products dominate the local stores and service centers. Granted, I've got quite a number of Lionel - Postwar and modern day Legacy. I love the features of Lionel - swinging bell and smoking whistle. Those are not deal-breakers/must-haves for me. Both companies produce nice stuff, but quality issues from one manufacturer have ended my purchases from them. 

I still favor MTH For a few reasons - They've apparently made some adjustments to the "lock up stopping" issue in conventional operation of PS3 steamers produced in recent years. I've purchased a few that are not bad at all in this regard. I'm also very big on the minor details MTH includes that Lionel does not. This is the chains on tender trucks as well as the small wire "ropes" running from the cab to the bell and whistle. I really like seeing those details. MTH has also produced a bit more variety of smaller locos with command control for use on small layouts, like what I have. 

I've got quite a few Legacy locos with the smoking whistle - nice feature and I can certainly live without it. One loco (Legacy UP Challenger) has the whistle right next to the smokestack so it is very difficult, if not impossible, to see the whistle smoke. 

Lack of Lionel parts concern me - MTH has been producing upgrade kits for years. I like to think there are plenty of PS2 and PS3 boards and electronics and qualified techs out there and sourcing and replacing would be pretty easy if something "went boom." I have not seen much in terms of Legacy electronic parts and techs. 

The long and short of this really is that each of the manufacturers are striving for us. No one is really on top unless we ourselves put them there on our imaginary pillars. Each offer something unique and they all have their staple features which we either enjoy or are okay with.

The main thing should be that they try to do the best they can with each thing they make, and push the envelope to give new offers to something they themselves have not seen before(that will spark our interest). I'm sure one of the hardest things we keep going on about are engines not made(yet) or road names that never get any love. We all realize that some things cost a lot of time and money to bring to market, so hopefully whatever they're cooking up, will meet our needs.

OK I'm a simple man, so here goes. I always said if I can't see a detail I don't need it!

One thing I have noticed, is that the Sunset Models are the best detailed, above and beyond all the other brands.  I love MTH and Lionel, but nothing like 3rd Rail. 

VintageClassics posted:

One thing I have noticed, is that the Sunset Models are the best detailed, above and beyond all the other brands.  I love MTH and Lionel, but nothing like 3rd Rail. 

I’m a long-term 3rd Rail and GGD customer and I agree that their detail is second to none in the 3rail O scale field. Also they offer some models that the main importers do not. For example, GGD is now the only source for aluminum passenger cars.

The only downside, as far as I am concerned, is the lack of operating features although what they do offer is now somewhere in between MTH and Lionel. This thread started out about smoke features and I can’t see 3rd rail adding whistle smoke or maybe even dynamo smoke (a simpler feature to add) because they are not essential to what I think most 3 rail scale operators who already buy 3rd Rail products want.

I am not fanatical about detail but I appreciate it when I see it. 

3rd Rail won't be adding those features.  It is not the primary market we serve as about 60% of the product is now purchased by 2 railers. 

Not judging either way on 2 vs. 3 rail, but the bottom line is 3rd Rail customers demand prototype fidelity over advanced features and that is what we offer better than anyone for the price range.  The 2 rail QSI boards actually have many more features than the 3 rail boards now simply because the ERR board is pretty much at it's limit for features.      

Back to researching variations on GP7s / 9s before Scott starts sending me "fan" mail. 

3rd Rail is dependent on Lionel if they want to add additional features. Lionel would have to offer them Legacy electronics to add more smoke or bell features. 

They could add more features to their DCC equiped two rail engines but I doubt many two railers are interested in them and the few that might be could add them themselves if they desired.

Edit, I see Jonathan beat me to it.

Pete

GG1 4877 posted:

but the bottom line is 3rd Rail customers demand prototype fidelity over advanced features

This statement is what makes 3rd Rail's decision to offer shortened passenger cars so strange,  but I'm getting way off topic.

As always ..... opinion.

This is one of those threads that makes the OGR forum so adorable.  So much drama on issues that only the manufacturers control.  I assume they're trying to build a quality product and make money.  They've made product and sourcing decisions in different directions that support their business plan.

To me, the elephant in the room no one appears worried about are the replacement boards/parts for these highly featured engines.  5-10 yrs from now what % of engines will have to settle for disabled features, an electronic e-unit, etc because of no parts availability?

I only own one fancy electronic diesel that came in a package deal that I couldn't refuse.  But if I had paid near retail or had a fleet of these expensive engines it would be a concern. 

Gotta Have Lionel Legacy or RailSounds Period. I recall running 5 or 6 Mth steam engines on my layout at the same time and the sound was generic at best.  When I run 5 Lionel Legacy/RailSounds  loco's at the same time I can Id them just by listening. I smile every time I run my trains, its like listening to a symphony. Legacy Engine Cab2 #99 and off we go. Makes my head spin in the dark.

  I do however have 10 maybe more MTH Premier Passenger consists. Beautiful cars with interiors & figures. I always purchase all the add on cars also. 7 or more makes me happy.  Many have been converted to LED illumination which makes them even nicer. I also like MTH's freight cars. Don't know how many of those I have. I still keep all the Railking Die Cast cars I collected over the years. Probably have more than 50 of those. Rock solid and Beautiful to watch, to me they just have great substance. I also Luv MTH Cabooses.  Nuff Said,

Gonna Go Run My Trains.,

Tom

GG1 4877 posted:

3rd Rail won't be adding those features.  It is not the primary market we serve as about 60% of the product is now purchased by 2 railers. 

Not judging either way on 2 vs. 3 rail, but the bottom line is 3rd Rail customers demand prototype fidelity over advanced features and that is what we offer better than anyone for the price range.  The 2 rail QSI boards actually have many more features than the 3 rail boards now simply because the ERR board is pretty much at it's limit for features.      

Back to researching variations on GP7s / 9s before Scott starts sending me "fan" mail. 

Thanks for that info... Very interesting info that now 60% of product is now being purchased by 2 rail community. 

Perhaps even of more interest is that those QSI 2-Rail boards have more potential,as Norton and Jonathan have pointed out, vs the 3-rail boards... very cool...

Thanks for all the cool models you guys do~ 

So, what is possible to modify with the 3rd Rail engines? I see Bruk on this forum does really cool Legacy Upgrades. Lionchief 2 with Legacy in a 3rd Rail? Is that the best way to upgrade your 3rd Rail?

ecd15 posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

but the bottom line is 3rd Rail customers demand prototype fidelity over advanced features

This statement is what makes 3rd Rail's decision to offer shortened passenger cars so strange,  but I'm getting way off topic.

As always ..... opinion.

To me, their decision makes perfect business sense as the main manufacturers are not in the 18” aluminum car market and there is clearly a demand for them. I trust that Scott Mann can and will execute the 18” cars in a way that is consistent with the quality of recent issues of scale cars.

VintageClassics posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

3rd Rail won't be adding those features.  It is not the primary market we serve as about 60% of the product is now purchased by 2 railers. 

Not judging either way on 2 vs. 3 rail, but the bottom line is 3rd Rail customers demand prototype fidelity over advanced features and that is what we offer better than anyone for the price range.  The 2 rail QSI boards actually have many more features than the 3 rail boards now simply because the ERR board is pretty much at it's limit for features.      

Back to researching variations on GP7s / 9s before Scott starts sending me "fan" mail. 

Thanks for that info... Very interesting info that now 60% of product is now being purchased by 2 rail community. 

Perhaps even of more interest is that those QSI 2-Rail boards have more potential,as Norton and Jonathan have pointed out, vs the 3-rail boards... very cool...

Thanks for all the cool models you guys do~ 

So, what is possible to modify with the 3rd Rail engines? I see Bruk on this forum does really cool Legacy Upgrades. Lionchief 2 with Legacy in a 3rd Rail? Is that the best way to upgrade your 3rd Rail?

I’ve upgraded a few of my 3rd Rail 3 rail engines with better speakers and different lighting features. To be fair, some of the ERR sounds available are nearly as good as Legacy (SP Daylight steamer sounds for example) but I have never contemplated trying to install Legacy boards in any of these engines. Not sure how far, if at all, they would be compatible with 3rd Rail’s horizontal drive train but in any case it would be an expensive option. Besides, I am none too keen on cutting up various brass components although to a limited extent I have done that.

Its now possible to upgrade many locomotives to Legacy as Lionel will sell you all of the boards required. This would allow you to put in added smoke effects assuming there is room and even a swinging bell but you won't get speeds that allow running with other Legacy engines except by luck as to do that the board has to be programmed for a specific driver diameter and gear ratio.

As far as Lionchief, that would be a downgrade. Neither speed control nor Railsounds are as good as ERR from the factory.

Pete

The biggest stumbling block to the added feature is mechanical, not electronics at this point.

GG1 4877 posted:

I'll take a highly accurate, highly detailed and decent running locomotive from any manufacturer over any command system any day of the week.  I don't have a bias against any manufacturer than can meet this requirement. 

Features are almost irrelevant to me anymore outside of good running qualities and prototype accuracy.  Sound is kind of fun.  Command can be fun when it works correctly, but I could take it or leave it.  Not a big fan of smoke.

This is how I also enjoy my trains.

There are some evenings where I'll open up the doors on my display cabinets, pop open a cold one, and just enjoy looking at my trains! 

Jim

Jim,

I enjoy them as static displays as well.  Sometimes you don't always have to run them to enjoy them!

I think MTH sees all the problems associated with all these new features and wants no part of it. From what I can see the 3 rail market still treats these new engines as toys. That means:  Do not read the instructions and if 20 drops of smoke fluid is good then a 1/2 pint must be better. When running a business, the bottom line still rules. An over abundance of warranty repairs certainly hinders the healthy bottom line. I don't think they are conceding business. I think it's good management. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The biggest stumbling block to the added feature is mechanical, not electronics at this point.

So, the Company JTS LTD used to upgrade the **** out of trains, they are gone.  Bruk seems to be able to get Legacy upgrades in older engines, and Gunrunnerjohn does upgrades to. Is it possible on a 3rd Rail Santa Fe 2900 class yo do some whistle steam and dynamo steam upgrades, or something similar to a PRR Q2? 

I love my 3rd Rail, but I want to upgrade the electronics and features.  I had considered Ps3 and MAX upgrades through JTS LTD, but they are gone...  Any thoughts on best way to go... I don't want to DOWNGRADE my electronics, as had been mentioned on this thread if a Lionchief 2.0 was used... just want cool steam effects in my 3rd Rail engines... that's all... 

Thanks!

VintageClassics posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The biggest stumbling block to the added feature is mechanical, not electronics at this point.

So, the Company JTS LTD used to upgrade the **** out of trains, they are gone.  Bruk seems to be able to get Legacy upgrades in older engines, and Gunrunnerjohn does upgrades to. Is it possible on a 3rd Rail Santa Fe 2900 class yo do some whistle steam and dynamo steam upgrades, or something similar to a PRR Q2? 

Thanks

Just my opinion but, I don't understand why anyone would want to butcher a beautifully detailed Sunset/3rd Rail model to add features, that subsequently spit smoke fluid all over that beautiful detailing.

Hot Water posted:

VintageClassics posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The biggest stumbling block to the added feature is mechanical, not electronics at this point.

So, the Company JTS LTD used to upgrade the **** out of trains, they are gone.  Bruk seems to be able to get Legacy upgrades in older engines, and Gunrunnerjohn does upgrades to. Is it possible on a 3rd Rail Santa Fe 2900 class yo do some whistle steam and dynamo steam upgrades, or something similar to a PRR Q2? 

Thanks

Just my opinion but, I don't understand why anyone would want to butcher a beautifully detailed Sunset/3rd Rail model to add features, that subsequently spit smoke fluid all over that beautiful detailing.

What can I say... I like my gals smokey and oily

Also, on a side note, a good point you bring up. JTS LTD offered upgrade services to 3rd Rail customers. Where these not popular, were many people hesitant to do upgrades due to their engines being brass vs diecast?

VintageClassics posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The biggest stumbling block to the added feature is mechanical, not electronics at this point.

So, the Company JTS LTD used to upgrade the **** out of trains, they are gone.  Bruk seems to be able to get Legacy upgrades in older engines, and Gunrunnerjohn does upgrades to. Is it possible on a 3rd Rail Santa Fe 2900 class yo do some whistle steam and dynamo steam upgrades, or something similar to a PRR Q2?  

Whistle steam is somewhat complex to very complex to design.

The dynamo effect is much simpler.  It's either On or off....and is typically right in front of the cab.  You don't have to vary it's output or sync it to anything.....from a modeling perspective.  There is no corresponding sound to go with it.

So long as there is room in the loco, it's the simplest of steam effects.

Berkshire President posted:

VintageClassics posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The biggest stumbling block to the added feature is mechanical, not electronics at this point.

So, the Company JTS LTD used to upgrade the **** out of trains, they are gone.  Bruk seems to be able to get Legacy upgrades in older engines, and Gunrunnerjohn does upgrades to. Is it possible on a 3rd Rail Santa Fe 2900 class yo do some whistle steam and dynamo steam upgrades, or something similar to a PRR Q2?  

Whistle steam is somewhat complex to very complex to design.

The dynamo effect is much simpler.  It's either On or off....and is typically right in front of the cab.  You don't have to vary it's output or sync it to anything.....from a modeling perspective.  There is no corresponding sound to go with it.

There sure as heck should be "sound to go with it"! Haven't you ever heard that spool-up whining sound whenever the dynamo is first started? The dynamo then whines all the time, until the locomotive is "shut down".

So long as there is room in the loco, it's the simplest of steam effects.

Hot Water posted:

Berkshire President posted:

VintageClassics posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The biggest stumbling block to the added feature is mechanical, not electronics at this point.

So, the Company JTS LTD used to upgrade the **** out of trains, they are gone.  Bruk seems to be able to get Legacy upgrades in older engines, and Gunrunnerjohn does upgrades to. Is it possible on a 3rd Rail Santa Fe 2900 class yo do some whistle steam and dynamo steam upgrades, or something similar to a PRR Q2?  

Whistle steam is somewhat complex to very complex to design.

The dynamo effect is much simpler.  It's either On or off....and is typically right in front of the cab.  You don't have to vary it's output or sync it to anything.....from a modeling perspective.  There is no corresponding sound to go with it.

There sure as heck should be "sound to go with it"! Haven't you ever heard that spool-up whining sound whenever the dynamo is first started? The dynamo then whines all the time, until the locomotive is "shut down".

So long as there is room in the loco, it's the simplest of steam effects.

 

There should be...but no one has ever attempted to add that sound feature on a model, as far as I know.  That's why I included "....from a modeling perspective".

Every model is a comprise....and I know you're not big on steam effects.  But I like good smoke units running through the stack/stacks at four chuffs and the dynamo effect.  I'm less than impressed on the other steam effects.

Berkshire President posted:

Hot Water posted:

Berkshire President posted:

VintageClassics posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The biggest stumbling block to the added feature is mechanical, not electronics at this point.

So, the Company JTS LTD used to upgrade the **** out of trains, they are gone.  Bruk seems to be able to get Legacy upgrades in older engines, and Gunrunnerjohn does upgrades to. Is it possible on a 3rd Rail Santa Fe 2900 class yo do some whistle steam and dynamo steam upgrades, or something similar to a PRR Q2?  

Whistle steam is somewhat complex to very complex to design.

The dynamo effect is much simpler.  It's either On or off....and is typically right in front of the cab.  You don't have to vary it's output or sync it to anything.....from a modeling perspective.  There is no corresponding sound to go with it.

There sure as heck should be "sound to go with it"! Haven't you ever heard that spool-up whining sound whenever the dynamo is first started? The dynamo then whines all the time, until the locomotive is "shut down".

So long as there is room in the loco, it's the simplest of steam effects.

 

There should be...but no one has ever attempted to add that sound feature on a model, as far as I know.  That's why I included "....from a modeling perspective".

Every model is a comprise....and I know you're not big on steam effects.  But I like good smoke units running through the stack/stacks at four chuffs and the dynamo effect.  I'm less than impressed on the other steam effects.

Sure they have, every time you start up an MTH steamer, you hear the dynamo wind up, give it a try.  That's an easy sound to do.

The only MTH Steamer I have has been converted to TMCC ....so I don't know what sounds they typically make offhand.

But I gladly stand corrected if that's the case.  Either way, add the Dynamo Steam Effect!!