Help needed please. Factory new RMT Beep Diesel.

P.S.- When I turn my throttle lever up to the half way point, the BEEP doesn't move.  I have to put the throttle all of the way up to get it to move at its crawl pace.

This means that I can't run the BEEP and another engine on my layout at the same time.   With the throttle all of the way up, the BEEP crawls, and the other engine runs full blast.

Thx,

Mannyrock

You say it has two motors--it sounds like the RMT Bang. I've got two and they run about the same speed as my other engines.

@Scotie posted:

You say it has two motors--it sounds like the RMT Bang. I've got two and they run about the same speed as my other engines.

The Beep also has two motors   The Beep runs slower than most but it shouldnt be that different

Actually Scotie, the BEEP does indeed have two motors.  They ain't big ones, but they're there.

Here's the chassis of mine when I was installing the ERR CC-Lite board.

@Mannyrock posted:

P.S.- When I turn my throttle lever up to the half way point, the BEEP doesn't move.  I have to put the throttle all of the way up to get it to move at its crawl pace.

This means that I can't run the BEEP and another engine on my layout at the same time.   With the throttle all of the way up, the BEEP crawls, and the other engine runs full blast.

Clearly, something is amiss.  Normally, the BEEP is fairly speedy.  I know mine will scoot around the layout at a pretty quick clip.

Thanks for the information--seems like an odd design for a single truck engine.

I've got two Bangs and I love them, perfect on my O31 and O42 curves.

I have three and IIRC they do run slower than a typical conventional engine. The short wheelbase and pick ups do cause stalls occasionally. Has it been cleaned and lubricated?

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

I have three and IIRC they do run slower than a typical conventional engine. The short wheelbase and pick ups do cause stalls occasionally. Has it been cleaned and lubricated?

You obviously have a vastly different definition of "slow" than I do. Here's a bog stock BEEP right out of the box running with about 9 volts on the track.

Mine don't run like that John. It's been a while since I've had one on the rails. I'll try them later today.

That was a conventional one that is right out of the box.  My command ones will also run at similar speeds, but I was trying to illustrate operation with one that should be very similar or identical to what Mannyrock has.

In the short time that RMT was blowing them out and then O-Line Reproductions was selling them cheap, I grabbed a few of them.  I have plans for some double-headed consists with a couple of sets.

Thanks for that video John.   Mine runs at 1/4th that speed.    I ran it for 15 minutes, thinking this might loosen it up, but it had no effect.  This one was made in China.

Interesting to me that when I took mine out of the box, the bottom of the loco is really wet with oil.  Don't know what this means.

I guess that I could try to fully lube it, and otherwise fool with it, but my problem is that if I'm going to return it, I've got to return it pretty quickly  on Ebay.  And, I really don't want another "project" on my hands.

I would have been better off buying a used one in VG+ condition from a Member of this forum.  Lesson learned.

Mannyrock

That was at a fairly low track voltage, though they do top out at not much faster than that.  However, that's faster than I normally run anything on my RR, so it's fast enough for me.

I think they were all made in China.

John, yours runs VERY nicely! I'm beginning to wonder if there is/was a manufacturing problem with some of these. I have one that also runs slowly. I'll have to look at it more closely when I get the layout up and running. That may be a while...

Mannyrock, suggestion: Set the BEEP on its side and apply power with alligator clips. See if both wheels sets are turning and at the same speed. Just a shot in the dark.

Chris

LVHR

Hard to day what happens over in China.  I just stuck both of my command equipped ones on two loops and went to full throttle, they both had similar top end speed as the video I previously posted.  I don't recall ever having any of the half dozen or so I've tinkered with have a slow running issue.  I also have chassis pieces, extra wheels, etc.  I actually have removed the traction tire from my command versions so they have better outside track contact, with only one wheel touching, going through many switches is iffy with the traction tire.  These were never designed to pull a big load anyway.

If I do a dual-headed configuration, I can keep the traction tires and run all for of the little motors off one motor control, that should give them more pulling power.

@Mannyrock

@gunrunnerjohn

I just tried all three of my BEEPS and they don't run like John's either. Here's a video at 12v and then at 18v. At 9v it didn't even move.

I also have a bunch of K-line Plymouth's that run at about the same speeds.

Hope this helps with your decision on returning.

Bob

Wondering if someone wired the two motors of Mannyrock's in series???  I had a conventional WBB GG-1 upgraded to RS (no command) and, while doing it, the tech asked if I wanted to slow it down by wiring the motors in series as discussed here frequently.  It runs great, more like RSJB's, not John's.

I bought all of mine used. I haven't opened them to look but now inquiring minds need to know so it will be on my bench later today.

I bought two off of Walter when he had RMT, and both are speedy like John’s.

Bob, thanks for that video.

When I turn my 1033 transformer up to its max of 16 volts, my BEEP runs at about the same speed (or a little less), than yours is running at 12 volts.

I can remember when buying something new in box was a joy, . . .not a frustration.

Mannyrock

I think I may have a clue.  I took two older ones out from the original RMT stock years ago.  They run much slower, and I'm sure it's the electronics as my two command ones that run plenty fast were created from the same vintage models.  The ones that came later with the tether had totally different drive boards and that must have made a big difference in their top speeds.

These were about a foot apart and after a run around the layout once (140 feet), they had joined, but individually they run at the same speed as you see.

Guys, thanks for all of the ideas.   I bought this unit for a relatively cheap price on E-bay, being $85 plus $20 shipping.  (Thought I had scored a bargain!)

This price is about 1/3rd to 1/2 less than I have seen other new in box BEEPs being listed.

So, I have a strong suspicion that the Seller knew that there was a problem with this engine.   Although the carton flap did not look like it had been opened, the extra oil on the bottom of the engine makes me think that someone tried to get this thing running at regular speed by oiling it up.

If I had any expertise like you guys in diagnosing and fixing mechanical and electrical problems with locos, I might keep it and try to fix it.  But, for me, it would be just shooting in the dark, and most likely never being able to fix it.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

Something is going on here;

Here is the item description for another BEEP currently on the Bay, for a cheap price of $80 plus shipping. 

A very nice, very likely never run, RMT-4223 Pennsylvania PRR #8005 Dual Motor Powered GP9 BEEP Diesel for O/027 gauge made in ~2011.

"  The gearing, traction tire and dual motors might not make it fast but it is strong for it's size!"

Plainly, this Seller has a unit that doesn't run right, and he is covering it with this wording.  Notice he doesn't say it is new in box unused, he says it is very likely never run.

So, something is going on here.    I think that somebody unloaded a bunch of factory seconds or defective units at cheap prices out to these Sellers, and now they are dumping them out to the public.     If they are selling them at $80, then they probably only paid $40.    I don't believe that any retailer could have gotten a fully working, correct, NIB BEEP for a mere $40.

Mannyrock

John,

Thanks very much for that second video.  Mine runs at about 1/3rd the speed as your slower units.  (It is agonizing to watch!)

Mannyrock

Send it back.

Done.

Thanks John and all others for your help.

Mannyrock

I bought 3 when they first came out.  2 motors and barely crawled.  Lesson learned.  eBay got em.

The last video I posted is the two slow ones I have.  All the other BEEP locomotives I have, command or conventional, run pretty fast at full throttle.  Those slow ones have the old BEEP electronics, that's the bottleneck in those units.  The later units had a much larger reverse board that was able to supply full current to the motors.

All my beeps always ran like "bats out of ****".

Is it possible that some have hardened grease?

Mine don't have any hardened grease, the older reverse board just doesn't have the "oomph" to drive them to full speed.  I found one of the original reverse boards in my parts boxes, blast from the past.

This is the original wimpy reverse board.

This is the newer and much more robust reverse board.  The BEEP models with the tether to double-head them have this board.

The BEEP models with the new board will fly, the ones with the older board are much more sedate.

Manny rock, don’t give up on them, they’re neat little engines, and seem to be what you’re looking for. I even added a sound unit to one of them, but then removed it to put in a Lionel 44 ton switcher that I painted into a Lackawanna engine. Good luck, Artie

Mine are also sedate runners:

I don't know what the voltage was on that run, other than it was a Z-1000 at the time.

---PCJ

With that many cars it's not surprising they don't run super fast.

The "slow" Beeps sure look better than the newer, faster ones.  Of course, that's what a throttle is for, I guess. Are the newer ones even capable of not running at Warp Speed?

John,

I think you are on to something here with the boards. I'll have to open mine up and see which board is inside. Presuming it is the "wimpy"  board (Can I have a hamburger and pay for it Tuesday?) where can I purchase the non-wimpy version? Has anyone tried installing a Dallee or other brand board in one of these? I looked at the RMT website, but I see nothing about being able to buy the boards separately.

Chris

LVHR

Here's the two slow BEEPS pulling a tank train.  I had to help them with the grade, they couldn't make it on their own.

When I added my 3rd jackrabbit BEEP to the mix, it really helped!

I'm 99.44% sure that replacing the reverse board in earlier BEEP locomotives will cure the speed issue.  They're still very light little units that don't have much pulling power, but you can add more weight.  I added about eight ounces of lead weights to my command upgrades, but without traction tires they still aren't pulling fools.

WIMPY! WIMPY! WIMPY!

Also wondering if the Dalee boards would make a difference.

Any decent reverse board will really make a difference.

Ok, but John and D500,  how do you find the later BEEPs, with the factory installed better board?  Is there a number designation, such as a product number, or an identifying mark on the unit?  I really like the looks of the BEEP, and if I could get one that would travel at a decent speed I'm pretty sure it would pass over the track switches without the dreaded pause.  A slight hickup is OK. 

John, when you bought your later made unit, did you know you were getting a later unit, or was it just luck of the draw?

I don't need much pulling power.  My trains average about six short cars.

Mannyrock

Those aren't Beeps!  This is a Beep!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Any decent reverse board will really make a difference.

Thanks John. Learn something new here all the time. I just accepted the speed as normal, but I was planning on doing some Dallee installs soon so I'll add my BEEPs to the list.