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How long a train can you pull with postwar Lionel cars?

AceAceOGR Forum Member
I've been putting my MTH 4-8-8-4 Big Boy (1998 PS1) to the test to see how many cars it can pull. I currently have mostly postwar (1945-1969) Lionel cars which roll harder than newer products. I'm finding that 30 cars is about the limit before coupler pull-aparts become a recurring problem. I lube the metal wheels and axles sparingly, and maintain coupler alignments to avoid height mismatch. I put lighter cars towards the end of the train, naturally.

I have a floor layout generally around the perimeter of a 23'x 23' room, 054 curves with 072 easements, conventional old 3-rail track. One 90 foot circuit around the room has three straight sections about 20 feet long each, one horseshoe curve, 720 degrees of curvature. It's flat except for a short 2% grade about four feet long, about one inch climb (over the bottom sill of an interior wall), in the middle of a 20-foot straight run. "Bowstring" derailments are infrequent on this layout, with a train up to 30 cars.

I found that the old die-cast Lionel couplers typically have a horizontal parting line in the middle of the coupler pulling face, which tends to make couplers gradually pull over-and-under on a hard pull. Careful filing with a small jewelers file to flatten the coupler pulling faces will diminish this problem.

The sheer weight of the cars and the older wheelsets make for a hard pull, and I don't want to push the engine much further. I'm using old RW and LW transformers, no ammeter. Also wonder how much abuse the traction tires can handle.

Newer (after 1969) Lionel cars and plastic trucks with pointed axles typically roll much easier, so I want to get more of those for my long train experiments.

My 1951 Lionel 2343 F3 loco with dual motors and magne-traction has pulling capacity similar to the Big Boy, it seems.

I would be interested to hear the experiences of others in this area. I've been in HO for decades, heavy-duty O gauge 3-rail for just a couple years.
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gg1mangg1manOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER
Hi ACE, couplers coming open is an age old problem in our hobby. Some people put a small black tie wrap around the coupler arms to stop this, but that will put a real kink into any yard work you may wont to do.
As for the drag of the Post War cars try WD40 on the wheel axil mounts, then blow it out with canned air. This will clean them out but WD40 is not really a lubricant so when dry use a little Lebell oil or white grease in the wheel sets.
Be careful not to get the WD40 on the cars, I never had a problem with it but it dose have the ability to break down some compounds like Liquid Nails and roofing tar. So it is probably best to do some spot checks with it.

Another problem I found with Post War rolling stock is bent axials. Make sure there is no wobble in any of your wheels when the cars roll down the track. I find the best way to check for this is to look at them strait on as you push the car back and forth.

I would also make sure that the wheel faces and track are clean as well. Dirt will not only effect electrical contact but will also create drag.

As for the pulling power of the scale MTH Big Boy, I would bet from fifty to a hundred cars on a flat strait run is very possible.
Good Luck and have fun, I hope the above is helpful to you.
Len2Len2OGR Forum Member
It also makes a difference which type of truck, wheels, and axles are on the car.

If the wheels spin on the axle, or the trucks are die cast and the axle spins in the casting, I find a shot of dry graphite now and then works better than oil. It doesn't attract and hold dust the way oil will. On the stamped sheet metal trucks I use a bit of white lithium grease applied with a tooth pick.
gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
I've pulled over 40 cars on a level track with a SD-80 dual-motored diesel, and I only had one problem coupler that I had to fix to get reliable operation. I doubt I could attack any grades with that const, but it ran fine on level track. Note that none of these cars had pickups for power, which does add some friction, they were all semi-scale PW cars.
B brucefclarkOGR Forum Member
Ace When I had a MTH Proto 1 Big Boy I pulled 93 modern scale cars on the club layout. The engine and caboose were about 6" apart - boy could you see slack when you reversed the engine. I could carefully back the train around the layout. Most of the newer engines have a strong enough motor but not enough weight on the traction tires to pull really long trains. I am always rebalancing engines to get the manimum weight on the traction tires.

Couplers:

Old Lionel - the tolerances got so bad in production that the couplers would pull apart with out the knuckle opening. If you have old Lionel couplers put the cars at the eng of the train.

New Lionel - better but have had some uncouple at higher speeds on the club module, which is slightly rough. The spring is too weak or the uncoupling plate is too heavy.

K Line - good but a few will come apart. the new plate seem better, but I have not run that many to bless them.

MTH old - The thumb tack was cast and too heavy - I had to rework most of them.

MTH middle - Lighter thumb tack good

MTH last - plate design - similar to Lionel in that some will come apart.

Atlas - thumb tack - about the best but have had a couple come apart BUT I do not like the looks of the thumb tack design not that the big ones use the plate design.

Coupler tests: do not use in long trains if the coupler fails these tests!!!

1. Couple 2 cars and try to pull them apart. The old Lionel couplers woud separate without the knuckle opening!!!

2. Drop one end of a car on a HARD surface. If the coupler opens from:
1" Fail
1 1/2" Marginal - will probably have problems
2" pass - will probably never open

The failure method of opening on rougher tracks and higher speed is that each bump will move the uncoupling piece ( thumb tack or plate ) slightly and the heavy train force/ friction on the knuckle and release part prevents the part from returning to a fully locked position.
RussellRussellOGR Forum Member
I have 2 Imperial Railking Big Boys from different years.
Either one of them will pull more cars than I can get on my layout without even noticing.
Max so far is 51 cars including old Crane cars and operating cars (heavy).

Couplers are a problem, some I shifted back in the train, some I ended up wiring shut.
One fix offered up in the past is putting orthodontal bands (small rubber bands for braces) on them, This stiffens them without making them inoperable.
A more available substitute could be o-rings, see your local car parts place.

If I didn't love my Protocouplers so much I'd replace them all with kaydee's
EO Eric OxnerOGR Forum Member
I have had a railking erie berk pull 35 to 40.And that the couplers start to pop open from the stress.I have had my railking ps2 up to 46 boxcars.But what i have is a mix of rolling stock.For me the key is to spread the weight.Runing a long train can be very tricky to.But i have fun with it.Its funny how these o gauge train can sometimes act like there real world counterparts.
FM Former Member
For those of us with smaller 027 layouts, using double headed 2018 and 2035 Lionel Postwar Steam Engines, I have pulled 23 postwar cars around my tight curved 027 layout. Besides keeping the wheels well oiled and the knuckle couplers properly adjusted, I would alos recommend putting the heavy freight cars toward the front in order to help avoid stringlining on tight 027 curves. Here is a video.




I also tried to see how many cars I could pull up a steep incline. In this video I was able to pull 15 freight cars before the train would stringline on the upper 027 curves.

AceAceOGR Forum Member
Many Thanks for the numerous replies and many good pieces of advice and information. I acquired most of my O gauge items within the last coupler years, all secondhand, many in marginal condition. Some of the cars had rusty wheelsets when I got them, and although I cleaned wheels carefully, I didn't pull all the wheels off to polish axles.

I've already troubleshooted visible issues such as bent knuckle pins and weak springs in couplers, misaligned and loose or damaged parts, etc. I used a light oil applied with a hypo-needle applicator on the older-style Lionel wheels that turn on axles, and now suspect it hasn't held up, and I probably need better lube to reduce rolling resistance. It certainly adds up with longer trains.

I'm thinking a home-brew dynamometer car to measure drawbar pull would be worthwhile. And I'll do some "rollability" tests on a variable-inclined track to evaluate individual cars when I experiment with different axle lube.

I have run quite long trains on my HO layout, even with sharp curves and steep grades. It's all about good standards for track and equipment, and good maintenance. But much of my O-gauge equipment is older than I am, with looser standards. Anyhow, it's all interesting to tinker with.

Thanks again for all the helpful contributions.

Those last videos were great, very nice layout and operation.
FM Former Member
quote:
Originally posted by laming:
Okay David From Dearborn:

Gotta' ask again: How did you do your front pilot for the double heading? Got pics/links/whatever so I can take a look?

Andre


Andre, my how-to article on adding a front coupler to Lionel postwar steam engines is in the December 2010 O Gauge Railroading Magazine.
Last edited by Former Member
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