How Many Visionline Big Boys Were Made?

D: All of the above. 

 

 

Well put.  Measuring the overall success or pitfalls of the hobby based on the number of sales on a single item (high-end or otherwise) would hardly be conclusive.  Wouldn't even register the slightest blip one way or the other.  If anything, knowing what the production numbers were would only be to the benefit of one's curiosity.

I'm not sure I understand, you said " I'm even happier they did not serial number each.."  and I asked if you know for sure that they did not give them serial numbers.  I want to know because when one registers a vision line loco the program wants a serial number.

 

lionel vision line

see my answer above on the serial number.

 

I intend to take advantage of all the vision line extras.

"I strongly disagree.  Exponentially.  Strenuously.  And then some."

 

Can I take it that you disagree with my position? 

I don't know how many were made, one thing is certain, as of 5PM today 12/29/14, there is a VL Bigboy in my house.

 

Brent

 

Thanks Berk, you are indeed a gentleman. This is what makes our Forum so much fun, we can have differing opinions and still respect each other.

 

Happy New Year to you.

Ohhhhh this has become quite comical lol

I do know that Lionel has made 2,000,000^ FT starter set diesels (at least it seems that way) compared to the VL Big Boy and there is NOT one is my house.

 

(No way in a very warm place would one negotiate O48 or O36 curves and since that is all my layout has.......yup, I am $2k in the plus.....maybe)

One of the interesting aspects of this is that for many who would like to add a Big Boy to their roster and can't justify an individual $2000 locomotive is that it will create a wider market for all of the Big Boys manufactured over the years.  Wasn't the first die-cast scale model the MTH with PS1? Williams had a brass 'Crown Edition' version several years before that I believe. MTH had one or two more as did 3rd Rail andLionel with a TMCC version and then the first JLC Legacy model back in 2007 wasn't it?

What are these early models bringing now on the 'used' market? One could be able to pick up one for a very reasonable price as these VL's spread out...

Actually, unless they stopped all VL engines have serial numbers..

If you could figure it out, you'd know exactly

Joe 

I would say enough were made to make many older kids happy this Christmas... and enough where made to keep Lionel in the black for a few years to come!

 

And that is really all that matters.... 

Not sure how many they made, but I can tell you Lionel is sold out.

I'm with ya on that statement, Larry!  It's nothing short of a terrific sales & marketing coup for Lionel that they got so many toy train enthusiasts to buy a locomotive that most will never, ever be able to properly appreciate 'cause they simply don't have the layout for it. That's the part that really boggles my mind.    And then, of course, we're talking $2K.

 

No disrespect intended to folks wondering whether the Big Boy can handle less than O-72...  But guys, let's step back for a second and do a quick reality checkpoint here... even O-128 isn't gonna completely eliminate the overhang isssue.    Still a LOT of overhang has been reported on those much broader curves.  Until you see this beast in-person, you don't really appreciate the accommodations that may need to be made to your layout in order to run it.  So don't even waste your time on anything less than O-72.

 

Last night at the North Penn O-Gaugers train club, more than a few tunnel portals on curves needed some "trimming" (and I'm being kind here, as "surgery" is the more accurate term ).  But even with all that work, another area of the layout simply had a retaining wall too close to the tracks to allow clearance for the Big Boy.  So the Big Boy didn't exactly make a full inaugural run at the club.    

 

Amazing steamer though!  And I'm sure it generated a significant chunk of revenue for Lionel.  Much more than I would have ever imagined, given a significant percentage of these Big Boys will likely spend most of their time on shelves or carpet railroads.

 

David

 

 

Well David, that's exactly why we designed our layout, with clearances for the BB and 21" passenger cars. Track centers, side walls, and tunnels were all checked using the Legacy BB and a 21" car as the guide.

 

I've never heard anyone say.... "well that Big Boy has entirely too much over hang", whether at home or the club.

 

 

What I can't believe is the fact that so many people that did not buy one, or are not going to buy one, have spent so much time and effort writing down their reasons why and trying to understand why all of us "fools" that did buy one.

 

My Dad and I both have Legacy BB's, and we both bought VL BB's, so I can only imagine how we are looked down upon. 

 

I didn't think it was possible to dwarf the UP 9000......but 30thStreet found a way to do so. 

 

Wow....that really forces things into "perspective" on just how BIG these locos were/are.....

Because in our culture the perception of craft and value is largely determined by what is hand made. The most critical parts of an engine in a Ferrari are made by artisans, a Ford or a Toyota are entirely made by machines. While this may be relative (there are things the hands can't make that a machine can certainly do), one can't deny that hands make wonders.

 

I have no idea how many big boys were produced, but my guess is that it's probably  more than everyone would like them to be.

 

Comparing the VLBB to a Ferrari is comparing apples to caviar.

 

The VLBB castings are made by machine, the circuit boards are made by machine, the wiring harness's are very likely made by machine (yes, there are machines that will do it) the wheels and gears are most likely pressed on their axles by machine, painting and decorating is done by machine.  The only handwork involved is putting all the machine made parts together, which does require a certain level of training and skill.

 

Rusty

Why should anyone look down upon you for enjoying the hobby the way you want? I'm sure someone out there purchased one of each Big Boy, and it will make an impressive collection... whether on display shelves or operating all 7 on a huge layout.

 

Some of us are simply expressing an element of surprise that Lionel sold as many of these as they apparently did.  My tunnel-surgery comment is very real though, and if folks didn't plan for this monster, they'll have some work cut out for them -- pun intended.  

 

As for the price point, Lionel priced it where they did because they can, and folks will still buy it.  It's like folks paying $1.29/each for an individual bottle of spring water at the grocery store check-out counter.  Who hasn't done that?  Yet when we buy an entire flat of 35 bottles, we pay less than 10 cents per bottle for the same water.  How's that for an apples-to-oranges analogy?  

 

Seriously though... That's why I said this was such such a great sales and marketing coup for Lionel.  They generated excitement and enthusiasm for a product and folks jumped on board despite the fact that $2k is a lot of money for many people.  Heck, for some folks this may have been their only purchase of the year.  And that's perfectly understandable if it was.

 

David

I bought one is it awesome yes and it is really big . Was it worth 2k probley not would i buy it again yea ..

My friend's wholesaler knows since they purchased more than any other Lionel customer including Lionel's big 10 direct retailers.

Great job on the diorama! This is the nicest one I've seen for the display of a model train.

 

Jim

Are the VL-BB's worth 2k?   YES, because that i what the majority of people paid for them. Are the worth $2,700?  NO, because there are several for sale on ebay for that price and thay have not sold.

Bottom line - something is only worth what somebody will pay for it,  It dosen't matter if it is a Lionel Big Boy or a share of Apple stock.

On this forum I can believe this......

 

What I can't believe is the fact that so many people that did not buy one, or are not going to buy one, have spent so much time and effort writing down their reasons why and trying to understand why all of us "fools" that did buy one.

On this forum there are many contributors and posts that are informative and helpful. BUT there are just as many or perhaps MORE that are negative and just downright mean. Some justify or rationalize their negativity with thesis-long tirades, but in the end some forum members simply cannot abide by the simple rule of...."If you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all." 

 

I suppose you have to take the bad with the good.  Luckily for this forum guys like Laid Off Sick, Alex M, Gunrunner John and Matt post regularly!  They are trying to tip the scale to the positive side, and I appreciate them for it!

 

Doug, your vl big boy and your layout are both frickin cool!  

 

I enjoying hearing all views. You get a much better prospective on how things are. I don't know why someone has to buy a product in order to give their view. I am glad people buy the new stuff. I buy most of my stuff like new or new old stock so it is good for me. I could have bought the new big boy but for me the extra features don't mean that much and its more stuff that can go wrong. John

Agree. I forgot to mention that if I was to spend $2000 on an engine, I would personally get 3rd rail's L-131

c.sam you are correct. My last mth bigboy ps1 I paid 400. bought the first lionel bigboy new in box for 800. williams 10 years ago new for 650.currently trying to get jlc bigboy . John

Comparing the VLBB to a Ferrari is comparing apples to caviar.

 

>>The VLBB castings are made by machine, the circuit boards are made by machine, the wiring harness's are very likely made by machine (yes, there are machines that will do it) the wheels and gears are most likely pressed on their axles by machine, painting and decorating is done by machine.  The only handwork involved is putting all the machine made parts together, which does require a certain level of training and skill.<<

 

Pretty much accurate..  But, after watching the TM video on the building of the Hudson years ago, its probably why I still cherish that engine so much.  And it was made in America to boot...

We may never see that high level of hand labor in the building of a Lionel model again..

BTW my guess is....Less then 800 total, maybe less.

Joe 

  

 

Exactly, well stated. The so called 'book values' really don't mean a lot, nor does the MSRP.

I think buying a $2000.00 train is crazy, so I have no plans to buy one. I also think that my money is my money, and your money is yours, so if you bought a big boy, and you're happy, then all is right with the world.

 

Jeff C

I imagine this could be figured out via poll, and maybe a pallet count at a few of the larger dealers.  Maybe there is a non disclosure.  Regardless, demand is the other side of Supply.  From what I have seen even folks without layouts have bought these.  So with a higher demand, even if supply is higher it may still be a good value for those that think that matters.

 

 

Don't we all have more trains in boxes under the layout than we ever could run or display?  G

 

To follow up on the question as to how many of the new Big Boys were made I can say that around 1,500 with the 4014 being made more of. Anybody want to know what the dealer cost is? This I know for a fact as far as one wholesale price to dealers that buy from wholesalers is.

sure, post it here.

New question:

 

Will the Lionel success of "preorders" of high price O scale models lead other manufacturers such as MTH to follow this lead? This might allow for more individually detailed models (engines with specific road numbers) being offered.

 

Seems like importers of brass models have been over the years taking preorders as well on specific road names and road numbers.

 

 

If you're referring to BTO, then Lionel is actually pretty late to the game.  MTH and Atlas-O have been doing it that way for years now as standard operating procedure for many products.  It's just that Lionel used a bit of smoke-and-mirrors to give the impression BTO was a consumer-oriented model, when in fact, Lionel is building to dealer orders... just as MTH and Atlas-O have been doing for portions of their product lines.

 

David

 

To bigdodgetrain:

 

$1,670.00 is the wholesale cost from wholesalers to dealers. The big 10 dealers who still buy directly from Lionel pay less than that. The cat is out of bag sort of.