I Would Hate to run a Train Store...

I am just happy that we have dealers in our hobby like Charles Ro & Charlie Nassau. It is a tough job and they serve us well.

I would hate to have to put up with people like me...

Rusty

Corporate goals dictate trying to offer only what is most profitable, nothing more.

When we fold, and buy a plush mobile or other item in the name of convenience, or availability only,  the value of your complaint is lowered to a whisper being drowned out by a sales pitch.

I see, and agree but our "I cant wait" society doesn't get the whole "customer should hold out" approach a well as they used to.

IMO Still a large part of any market/business/product,  efficiency, the highest possible, reliability, again the highest possible, and best value/price, Not necessarily lowest price, but best product for the dollar spent.

There is always something to be said about the guy running the store. Personality is as much a part of a business as are the bricks and mortar that are used in the building.  IMO 

 Mike CT

Any job where you deal with lots of people is challenging. Everyone these days knows their "rights" and unfortunately a small number seems to think that includes the right to be obnoxious. There is also that "I want it yesterday" mentality to deal with.

Some people have the personality, demeanor and charisma (and necessary business sense) to be successful, others don't.  

I think running a train shop could be fun. Yes, the road isn't always going to be smooth. I think, it all comes down to what you put into it. I think if you dedicate yourself to the business you will do just fine.  

Jim,

IMHO you set the standard....

As for running a Train Shop,

• low margins
• changing technology
• competing for shrinking disposable income
• an internet presence an almost necessity

Very difficult to do it all well...

Gilly

Train stores, in fact hobby shops in general, are slowly disappearing from the scene. We just lost a great one, Franciscan Hobbies, which had been a fixture in San Francisco for 65 years closed its doors in January of this year. We are loosing them at a rather alarming rate. Look in the back of Model Railroader from thirty years ago and compare the number of brick and mortar shops listed today.

Problem is, I don't think kids get as excited about trains when they see them on a website, as they do when they see them running in person, hear the whistle and smell the lovely scent of burning smoke fluid. That does not bode well for the future of our hobby. Can you say video game...?

So would I.  I had the chance to buy an LHS - twice (different ones).  I passed both times, partly because I determined it is a difficult job that never leaves you alone, and partly because my wife told me she would kill me if I did.

There are still many outlets to purchase trains, some have closed but many of them  exclusively sell online. New dealers do come and this year Steve "Mr Muffin" Nelson opened a train store to serve the community. Some of the bigger stores like CharlesRo. Nicholas Smith, Joe Gryzboski and Trainland are still thriving. We will always have retailers that sell trains but the local Hobby Shops are the endangered species. Few young people do anything where manual dexterity is required. That's why we are on our way to third world status.

3 cheers for the store guys!

I cant pull off the hobby mixed with business. Tried it twice, made money, but I wanted to keep everything. Dragged me too deep caring so much about everything! It eventually ruined the fun of those hobbies somewhat. Trains? I won't risk it  

I always thought it would be fun to have a train store. Until I started talking to the owner of my LHS. My LHS is basically a one man operation. He puts in many 12-14-16 hour days. I'd say about 12 is minimum. The investment involved ($$$$$$$), hours put in and dealing with the public would be a real challenge and just about consume your entire life's activities. Then as we have discussed here many times, many folks go to the shop to look at things, then go buy them on ebay for a cheaper price (usually because of something being wrong with the item). When they don't work they take them to the train store and expect free advice or even free repairs to be provided by the store.

As C.W. Burfle (sorry if I mis-spelled that) just said in another thread, 'When your hobby becomes a business it ruins everything' (or something like that). After talking to my LHS owner over the last several years, I think this is very true. It would be no fun at all.

I am glad that there are some who can make a go of it.   But its not for me.

I've been involved in a number of hobby-related businesses. It is a vast amount of work and usually not all that profitable. I don't envy hobby shop owners. It's tough to make it in any small business, and retail is one of the hardest. What a lot of people don't seem to get when they go into business is that the business end of it is as important, or more important, that simply knowing your product and having good customer relations. I used to do consulting for a gun business whose owner knew everything about buying and selling surplus military weapons and nothing about cash flow, profit and loss, etc. He wound up in bankruptcy court. Fortunately he didn't owe me all that much and I was able to get some of it back as a bad debt tax write-off. 

Jimmy, you were one of the best.

BAH! My wife and I just bought a 2015 Chrysler 200.  Compact, affordable, fine handling.  Plushmobiles died 20 years ago.

As for the Local shop, it still exists and is thriving.  But not on your street: Its on your computer screen.  Great prices, great selection, delivered to my door.  Look at the advertiser ribbons topping this forum.  How many of those are small businesses making their way in this new world?

I do miss the walk in shop.  I also miss steam engines and my seafaring days.  But new traditions and excitement always arrive in place of the old.  Its life.  Bemoan it not, but live it! 

They are all small businesses. I would even consider Lionel and MTH small businesses, they are definitely not large corporations.

Unfortunately,

Similar to real RAILROADS, RAILROAD PROPERTIES, R.O.W's., hobby shops, dealing with model railroading, model railroad clubs, youth and adult interest, are all declining and are all but disappearing from society!!

This is a hobby which helps think, create, build and keeps people from getting into trouble, especially when there are plenty of prototype RR's. around!!!!

BUT!!!!!  the wheels of progress must continue to roll!!!!!!

Ralph

I live in a region - like most of us - where the so-called "LHS" was thin on the ground. We had them, but they came and went rapidly and were usually not very large. So my "hobby shop memories" are not really weighty. My "local" shops tend to be in Atlanta,

or maybe Miami if I'm in an MTH frame of mind. Ro gets some business. But it's one day

shipment from Atlanta to my house, and that's quick enough.

=======

drydock - yeah, if the Challenger didn't exist, I probably would have gone for a Chrysler

200S with 295 hp and AWD. I drove one (not the S) and was taken with it. Quick.

Agile.

It's also really good-looking.

Maybe in a couple of years... 

Again BAH! Railroads are Booming right now!  For how long, who knows, but all things go in cycles.

As for toy trains, little kids play with them.  Then come cars, girls, and families.  After which, old men play with trains.  Again.  Always has been, always will be.  Trains never kept a teenager out of trouble.  BAH!  

A small Mom and Pops store has to be brutal. Competing with the giants, internet, ebay and who knows what else.

I remember last Christmas I stopped at Train Express, now closed, it was early Dec and there was a LARGE sign on the front window that repairs would not be done for Christmas. Seemed everybody put stuff away broke and wanted it fixed before the special day. I was there while several people just beat up on the counter guys... 

Gilly and Bill T,

Thank you and Merry Christmas.

I don't have much sympathy for most hobby shops. So many are run like club houses. The guy at the counter would rather have a day-long running conversation with a pal about the theoretical layout he might build someday (and of course how it'll be better than anything that's ever been done before) than help people actually looking to buy stuff. I've left numerous hobby shops in disgust over the years, unable to get anyone's attention to buy anything because that one guy you see at every hobby shop is domninating the employee/owner attention without spending money there.

Yeah, not all are like that, but a great many are. Most of the ones like that in my area folded like houses of cards when the economy went sour recently.

My problem is my local hobby shop is anaything but local. The nearest one with any train stuff is about 50 miles North of my home. And of course, it is only opened the exact hours I work, so I can't go there on work days as it's way too far away to hit for lunch time. It's also closed Sundays, so I rarely get a chance to go there.

So, dealing online isn't so much a 'to heck with the LHS' mentality as it is often the only means I have to buy anything. If I had to rely on a LHS to get my layout going, I'd only have the benchwork and little else...

Rusty is right, and that applies to me.  But my point really is about a dearth of product.  There was a little shop, actually two of them, both now closed in a nearby city, where, when you walked in, the shelves were almost bare.  When I asked about it, everything was on backorder and overdue.   With nothing new to sell, how can anybody make a buck?   Every time Apple introduces a new $500 toy there is a line down the street....not sure, but suspect that has something to do with innovation.  IF you have

an LHS, have you seen a line down the street anxious to get in?  I think that is the

reason LHS's have vanished...nothing new to sell.  Maybe the market doesn't exist?

Maybe the days of K-Line and Weaver and Williams all over the shelves so when you

walked in there would be some road name item you had to have, are gone, with a

declining population of interested buyers?

And I have found the weird (to me) train marketing also applies to automobiles.  Dodge

Dakota pickups were catalogued for two years as available with V-8's and six speed

manuals.  Two years in a row I tried to order one, as a more compact pickup that would take less garage space and still tow a trailer.  Order rejected both years, and

none were produced (truck is no longer made, which is what they deserve).  Also was

interested, at another time, in a Toyota Solara coupe, catalogued with manual.  Tried

to get one..."Oh, that is not sold in this region!".  Huh?? (it was in the bleepin' catalogue)  I did test drive two, wrong colors, at the dealer in York while there. Guess York is in the "right region".  No plans to visit Toyota again. Running into similar problem with Korean makes....one was only offered for two years, and the other apparently has the Toyota problem, as it is impossible to find one with the right configuration to test drive, in this state.  (like the Dakota and the Solara, the car I am

driving is not made any more, either, so have to find something else)

We have visions of what we THINK it would be like running a train store from a hobbyist's perspective.  Train store owners and staff already KNOW what it's truly like dealing with the vast array of John Q. Public personalities walking through the door.  So I wasn't the least bit surprised when a worker in a train shop I visited two weeks ago told me that he already wished it was January 2nd!  

David

A good LHS is like a treasure chest you want to dive into, a bad like a seizure you hope to crawl out of. I've been to both for sure.

One place that comes to mind was both, or somewhere between, depended on the day, and the year. The owner ran it alone at one time. 

 Then a new manager, friendly, attentive, didn't know enough about trains really. But I bet everything ran better because of her. It looked better for sure.

 One day, a youth was there, nice, knowledgeable, fresh with ideas and options. No loyalty but to that which works well, or pleases. But a foamer, so intense with enthusiasm he scares folks off sometimes, I'm sure if it.

The owner put me through "the test" of waiting, and the "is this person worthy of trains" questioning often enough that I only bought what was necessary, or just easier "right now". 25-30 miles away, I still visited 4-5 times a year. But until the rest of the family came to work around him, I really didn't buy there. Heck, I remember him not wanting to sell me a light bulb for a spotlight, or shack or something, because it wasn't the right bright one, but I wanted a dimmer one. It was why I was there for crying out loud(well really because Grainger was closed). As I left the closing store empty handed, disappointed, but trying to keep good spirits still, Mom & Jr said goodbye and slipped me one. Shhhh! It was just a day, or two, or three before Christmas And pleased me enough that I spent more after for their sake. But I did begin ignoring the owner outright. If he was alone I looked around a bit, nodded at best, and left silently. I never put another dime directly in his hand.

My LHS is 3 hours from my house. But we are at my daughters house for Christmas and thus my LHS is 5 minutes away. Grandkids were a bit on the wild side....so I decided to drop by the hobby shop to get out for a minute. 

The place was hopping. Lots of folks....a few I overheard them say they were buying their first train in years for under their tree.

My dealer covers all scales and price range. He was busy but a good busy....and gave me a small Christmas discount. 

Running a train store comes with the same headaches any brick and mortar retailer faces. My son is a manager of a national drug store chain. He has as many if not more issues with supply line and ugly customers. When their supply of a certain mediation rubs low....people run up to him....blaming him personally for the issues. So no matter what you do....you will have problems.....at least trains are fun most the time.

This made me smile.  I miss chatting with you on the phone...Merry Christmas!

Jeff Davis

You have to remember that it is not a job but a way of life and then all is well!!!

The owner put me through "the test" of waiting, and the "is this person worthy of trains" questioning often enough that I only bought what was necessary, or just easier "right now". 25-30 miles away, I still visited 4-5 times a year. But until the rest of the family came to work around him, I really didn't buy there. Heck, I remember him not wanting to sell me a light bulb for a spotlight, or shack or something, because it wasn't the right bright one, but I wanted a dimmer one. It was why I was there for crying out loud(well really because Grainger was closed). As I left the closing store empty handed, disappointed, but trying to keep good spirits still, Mom & Jr said goodbye and slipped me one. Shhhh! It was just a day, or two, or three before Christmas And pleased me enough that I spent more after for their sake. But I did begin ignoring the owner outright. If he was alone I looked around a bit, nodded at best, and left silently. I never put another dime directly in his hand.

And this, boys and girls, is one of the primary reasons that hobby shops are vanishing from the landscape. I'm sure I've never been to the specific store mentioned in this post, but I've been to a few just like it. I'm most of you have, as well.

There's a hobby shop south of me that has really good prices on some On30 stuff and a nive general selection of other hobby related stuff as well.

Problem is, the train counter is run by a guy who, simply, won't shut the [bleep] up. You have to endure his long winded theories of whatever he feels like saying. Tell the man you've heard his theories on how all NG modelers (except him, of course) make their curves way too tight in comparison of real railroads? Won't matter. He'll start with something else. I swear, I've been tempted to go in and pretend to be deaf or just talk in German and pretend not to understand English. I doubt that'll matter then, either.

I actually don't go there nearly as often as I probably would if he wasn't there. He's THAT annoying and simply not worth the long drive there to endure him.

He's actually losing them business, at least from me. I was in the area two weeks ago and wanted to buy another AMS On30 coach, as they have crazy good prices on them with no sales tax, but I just didn't wanna deal with this guy.

I MUST take exception at the author of this threads comments. I concede that people in business want our money, but it is a choice to buy/purchase trains and not an obligation. The train store I deal with, they are awesome people. A family run business that offers trains at discounts across the board and they bend over backwards to help everyone. Including me.

Comparing the automobile business with that of model trains is like comparing the proverbial apples and oranges. The two have nothing what's so ever in common. The fact that we spend our money is a good thing. For it helps the economy and improves the lives of many people. Oh I have my doubts sometimes, but that rest squarely on the shoulders of we the people. For it is we that people that caused this debacle whereby everything we want is now made in some third world country for mere pennies on the dollar and yes, we the people/consumer pay through the nose for such items. Essentially we brought this upon our selves. Think back when Lionel first came about. They were an American company with American values. They charged very little for their trains by comparison to todays prices. Sure, the items were not has nice perhaps, but I sure read allot of members up in having pre war Lionel trains and they cannot stop talking about how nice they are.

Once everything went overseas, that was that.

Train stores are awesome. Some owners can be jerks, but most, I am sure want your patronage/business and will do what ever it takes to earn it and keep it. I doubt anyone that gets into the business of trains, does so on a whim. Most do so because it is fun and provides a service to others.

If you find a great train store, consider it a blessing. If you come across one that is not so great, well then move on.

Pete

Yes Pete, there is a huge difference between retailing trains, and being a manufacturer of them. And then there is a huge difference between comparing other mass produced products and model trains, of which are not an essential and overall is a small market. O gauge is dwarfed by the HO market, and there are products that have not even been produced in HO, where there is clearly a far greater financial incentive to do so.

Then, like it or not, the 3-rail market is divided between the much larger 'toy' segment of the market and the much smaller but devoted scale market. If the scale market was REALLY so BIG, then there would not be a BTO program, would there?

Anyone who thinks the train manufacturers don't have a clue is totally free to start their own company and show the others who really knows the market. All the train company CEO's have explained how expensive tooling and product development is, and how long it takes just to BREAK EVEN... not make profit... just break even. I believe them before arm chair experts.

But then again, I'm sure Lionel puts the effort into things like Polar Express, Flyer starter sets, Peanuts, Coca Cola and the like because those things don't sell at all. Yeah, right.

I cannot go as far as agreeing that the HO market is greater than the O gauge market. Sure, there are perhaps more products, but I see most folks buying O and NOT HO. The reasons for that are as numerous as the trains themselves.

HO trains break to easily and are too small to really enjoy fully. They often do not have the same features available that O offers. O gauge is the middle ground in model railroading. I have tried them all except for S and Z. The HO market is great, but from my vantage point, I see more people spending their hard earned dollars on O.

Pete

I think ANY Business, depends on the Personality of the Management and Staff all the way down to the person who sweeps the floors... Good, Well  trained professionals and Courteous Sales Clerks, with Good Attitudes, make Tons of Difference in how we as Customers Perceive their Store.  Every Business has a different Way of dealing with their customers, and also different set of rules and regulations.  In todays market, the Owner of a small business must wear many Hats; Selling, Teaching, Demonstrating, Educating, Encouraging, Listening, and should have a Fully Functional Operating Layout in there Store.  Its not an easy job, but, it Could Be Fun if You make it Fun.

I would never say that I wouldn't run a Hobby Shop, but if I did, I would do My best to make my Store, Your Favorite Hobby Shop! Merry Christmas, I am in the top 2% of Honda Salesmen in the USA, I do understand what it takes to Please the Public.

Leapin Larry.....Happy Railroading

I have no idea where you're shopping, but I guess if you hang out in the O scale section of your local local hobby shop or go places that primarily sell O, then yeah, you'll see O being sold more.

But as for the overall hobby, HO is outselling O by orders of magnitude and has been for a very long time now. I'm not sure how anyone in the hobby can't see this obvious truth.

As for HO being too small to enjoy, well, that's bordering on Sheldon Cooper territory with that declaration...

I ran (and owned a share in) a hobby shop for several years, and it was a good experience overall.

 The above being said, the business itself (the financial numbers) sucks, especially for a smaller, mom and pop operation, and I don't see that trend changing anytime soon.

I wish anyone who is involved in the business lots of luck, it isn't an easy Way to make a buck.

Jeff C

I don't know what years you were trying to buy a Dakota with a V8 and a manual transmission, but I'm driving a 2003 Dakota with that combination. You mention a six-speed transmission and mine is five, so I'm assuming this was some years after mine was built. When I got my truck the dealer had to move heaven and earth to find it. It was the end of the model year so he couldn't order one, and none of the dealers on the computer inventory had one either. Finally, on the last possible day that I had to buy a truck, he phoned an off-the-grid dealer in the mountains of West Virginia who didn't bother to put his inventory on the computer. BINGO! Not only a sport cab 4WD Dakota with a V8 and a five-speed, but the color I wanted and every option I wanted except the upgrade bucket seats. It had the trailer towing package, cruise, etc. That was 11 years ago and I still drive the truck. It has over 100K on it and I plan to own it until if falls apart and then have it restored. 

Vintage 1960-1980's era HO is a bullet proof as 1950's era Lionel is. No electronics.

Fragile and poor running are not words I use for HO trains....I was in HO for 30 years before O. I have a bunch of HO trains that lived through a muddy flood....still run today.  O is the King of scales.....HO is the King of sales....

I think I would give it a try if the opportunity presented itself. At this point in time, it would have to be part time for another 4 years until retirement though. 

Don