Is Williams fast becoming the New (old) Lionel?

The crossing signal is a good, practical and often used prototypical idea, but I have an older Williams BL-2 Western Md dual powered A-A that has just a horn with no bell.  The horn on these A units is very good sounding with programmed multiple "toots" and includes a slight echo type at the end of the play.  I'm not sure if this is TrueBlast1 but the chip has ISD printed on the top.  FWIW, I still believe the current TB2 bell sounds more like a blacksmith or farrier shop than a train bell.  Nonetheless, Williams/WBB makes a good product for almost any budget.

I'm not fretting - not in the market for WBB. I'm glad these trains are available for those who want them, but I'm addicted to command and cruise.

The point is that, regardless of who discounts them and how much, Bachmann has chosen to put MSRPs on their engines that are through the roof (and, frankly, unrealistic). I can't imagine why they've chosen to do that. You'd think looking at the catalog would scare away many potential buyers. And it's likely the majority of potential buyers may not be aware of the existence of on-line discounters.

So why would a company set MSRPs that are dramatically different from what some dealers are selling them for? If this is an indication of the direction their wholesale prices are heading, it could spell big changes in how Williams is positioned in the market.

I really like the WBB product line. Their stuff looks good, runs good and is priced right for the average person.

To go back to the opening question of this thread my answer is yes WBB is the new old Lionel. 

In the past two years I have bought more WBB engines than those from other companies. Four WBB, one Industrial Rail by Atlas, one MTH, two Lionel MPC and a post war Lionel.

I would love some PC passenger cars to run with my WBB PC GG1 or F3s. I finally got the Porthole Caboose for my WBB GP38 pair. I would love a miss-matched set like the N scale Kato PC cars that company made last year. One silver, one brown and two green. I would be over joyed to at the very least get a set without domes.

I do like that the WBB offerings seem to be around for a little while so it is not just a flash in the pan after a sometimes long wait. A buyer can think over weather they really do want an item before it is gone forever or at least to ebay.

As far as first true WBB engine made under Bachmann control I would say that really I would consider the Peter Witt trolley to fit that role. I know some people really bit back on them about limited prototype specificity but it really is a beautiful model at a great price.

I haven't bought any WBB yet.  However, the 3 Williams diesels I have are the only contemporary locos I own that have not caused trouble.

I too, love the horn sound - very realistic and simple to use.

I'm waiting on these. Glad to see WBB went with the blue!

Wow! Cool! I had not seen this confirmed yet.

 I know I'm in. They will look great with my WBB B&M BL2.

All the engines I've bought in the last few years have been Williams. I have nine of them now. I was pretty loyal to Weaver in the past with my engine money, if for no other reason than feeling good about buying US-made engines, although their quality and service is top notch too. They just have not expanded their line in a long time and I've bought all the engines in the road names I run that they offer. Williams keeps making stuff I want however. My latest was a CNJ F-3 diesel and dummy set. I even like the stamped rails on the geeps! There are plenty of other makers out there producing more realistic (and fragile) engines for those who want them. I say If it ain't broke, don't make it breakable!

I can get 2.5 UP Heritage units for the price of a TMCC/L unit. And will not go into Gomez Addams mode 6'down the track!

Interesting thread.  The E-unit are very good and robust from what I have seen.  True blast works well also.  I did get to work on a Scale Hudson that was Williams by Bachmann and I was not impressed.  Looks like the tender mold is being over used, kind of like the early remake of Plasticville.  I do think you get value for your money, but these are not $399 engines, they really are the $199 engine you can get them for.  G

I'm in for a Boston & Maine F-3!  I only buy locos in northern New England schemes now.  Don't pull a Lionel or MTH and cancel it.  I'm sure it will sell!  It's not just another model of the same old thing.  Great job Bachmann!

The only WBB unit I have is this E7 I repainted for Seaboard Air Line:

I also added wire handrails and grabs, 5-chime horn, wipers, LED Headlight (bottom, the top one should be a Mars light but I don't have one installed), the ERR Cruise Commander and the MRC Sounder.

I don't do the whistle/horn/bell thing much, but I do love the diesel engine rumble (and steam chuff on steamers).

I added Kadee couplers to this engine and fixed the pilot.

I don't know how other WBB/Williams engines compare to this one, but if they're anywhere near the quality of this one was BEFORE I made my mods I'd say they're well worth the price.

Very nice work Bob!  I really like seeing locos of railroads not usually offered by the major manufacturers.  That's not to say that I don't own a few Santa Fe and Pennsy locomotives.

BAR, Thanks!

I have a 3rd Rail Seaboard E7 on pre-order and I'm looking forward to it arriving, hopefully in the next 2-3 months.  The details 3rd Rail is adding to each E7 to match the actual prototypes are going to make it a "have-to-get" item.

With all the stuff I did to the WBB E7 (started as an un-powered unit) the final price wasn't much less than what the 3rd Rail engine is going to cost.  But if someone is looking for a basic, well-built, sturdy engine the WBB is the answer.

Any more pictures of these Williams locos?

I just received my 20th WBB locomotive and have number 21 on order from Ma & Pa Junction as I type.  Among my WBB engines, I have GP-9's, GP-38's, F-3's, F-7's and FA-1's.  These are without a doubt some of the most attractive, reliable and affordable engines in my collection. 

Like several others who have posted, although I also have Lionel TMCC and MTH PS2 engines, more and more I prefer to operate conventionally and with sounds turned off.  WBB is ideally suited for this environment. 

And I'll also heartily agree with the previous posters who noted that with WBB, you are making a tradeoff between sophisticated electronics, sounds and scale detailing for something that runs right out of the box every time, is extremely affordable and looks good on any layout.

As a result of the quality of their products, the strength of their warranty and the reliability of their dealers, WBB has created a very loyal customer in this toy train collector/operator!

Curt

Outstanding job on the Seaboard E7 Bob. Can you imagine the gawkers and traffic tie up if that beauty passed through Hamlet, North Carolina today!

I have the Williams E-7 from a few years back in Southern livery,converted to TM/RS by Lil Choo Choo Shop, but have not operaated it since. It ran great in conventional and looks good parked with my SRR E6s and E8s.

Very nice Bob.  Do you want to paint a Post War Texas Special Shell, or at leas the roof!  How is the other project coming?  G

I basically buy WBB cheap dummies to run with expensive MTH PS2 engines.

 Other than the thick railings on a few models, the details and graphics look great!

WBB has some nice stuff when it trickles out one in a great while.

They have never been aggressive or innovative enough for advancement in the market place. So the answer to the question is YES.

The conventional mode speed reduction pulling long trains around curves drives me nuts.

I’ll stick with MTH DCS for power units to provide constant and realistic speed.

So if you don’t mind being stuck to the transformer handle, they can’t be beat.

Thanks guys!!!

Dewey,  That would be awesome.  From the books I have read they always seemed to have crowds gather whenever the named trains came into town.

I was too young and dumb to pay attention whenever they came into town back in the 50s-60s, now I wish I could go back and see them.

G, I'd have to take a look at what's involved, will let you know.

The Weaver Ten-Wheeler/Vanderbilt Tender project is on hold.  I got some part number out of the PSC catalog that Keystoned Ed let me look thru (and viewed his MAGNIFICENT PRR layout), but I decided to try getting the catalog myself so I could take my time and make sure I order the right parts.  Last time I looked PSC STILL did not have the catalog available.  I had it and a part on order at P&D, but cancelled when it became apparent that the catalog was going to be later than anticipated.

I'm almost afraid of the 3rd Rail E7 coming in.  I have a feeling it's going to be such a beautiful model that I'll have to re-configure my layout to enjoy all that beauty pulling a streamlined train   Maybe I can obtain the right-of-way to build an around the ceiling track

What are the "scale" or close to scale engines in the WBB lineup?  The E7 is very close in overall size and placement of details.

You can't beat criuse control in an MTH or Lionel but I found when you wire a williams in series and have a consistant voltage around the track you can set a williams to speed and it will keep going even around curves with a load. If you have voltage drops in the track it will of course slow down. I also run conventional from my DCS remote off of a variable channel on the TIU.

Chris

I think your last comment struck me as to how much variety the hobby has in operating and how it translates into the sort of wide set of schemes there are to accommodate them, there being there's no right or wrong approach. However, in comparison, I really dislike constant speed control as a personal preference. I like throttling up and down like the prototype to counteract the resistance of a pull on a curve. Otherwise, I suspect I would get bored pretty fast with "automated" driving. This is not a criticism of others preferences but I was struck how different mine are from the apparent majority.

I really really prefer cruise because over half of all my track is running at a slope - usually only 2.5% but occasionally more, including one long 1.5% 72" half circle. 

Diesels, if wired in series, will react okay - not perfect but not too bad on all but one bad slope.  But some of the WBB steamers are geared such that they really react with bad speed changes up and down slopes and in curves.  The new Baldwin 10-wheeler is geared much better -- its not as good as if it had cruise, but nearly. 

Note: some are "more scale" in detail than others...

F3's

F7's

FA1's

PA1's

GP38's

GP9's

Scale GG1's

EF-4 Rectitiers

NW2's

Baldwin Sharks

BL2's

Trainmaster's

Amtrak Genesis

Peter Witt Streetcar

4-6-0

Scale Hudson

Rusty

Real trains slow down when pulling long trains through curves too.

I agree, however when using DCS and 3 other trains operating on one track, the smooth constant operation is just more appealing.

I use TMCC Conv., and a MTH IR for one loop.

REAL trains have the engineer constantly making throttle changes.  Working your train either by handle, red knog, or grey switch seems a truer way to operate a tran.

After reading this post I get the feeling that we have become a bunch of "armchair" layout operators. I find it more enjoyable having to work the throttle (transformer) by hand, run the horn and control the speed and direction the way the real railroads are run. That's just my preference but I am probably in the minority. . 

I prefer handling the throttle too, just like an engineer.

The guys at my job who run locomotives by remote control are known as RCO's rather than engineers.

There is something to be said for both. Handling the big handle on a transformer has a nostalgic feel to it like when you were a kid. Some like a higher tech remote control but either way there is no wrong answer.  What ever makes you smile and enjoy the hobby is what really counts!

RCO = Radio Control Op?

Although I enjoy MTH and Lionel command I also enjoy some of the scale offerings from WBB. I have 4 scale gg1's converted to TMCC and cruise and a pair of Sharks converted to TMCC and cruise. Great engines and they will run forever. 

Hi Dennis,

Think about what you want for your guitar and amp, I can trade brand new trains, old trains, post war trains, buildings or scenery.

I'll see you at York!

Thanks Sean from Doherty's

Lets take this one off forum. dlagrua@comcast.net.

Since I got into O scale a couple years ago I've bought several WBB engines. I like the diesels and I'm not a diesel guy . I bought the NS exec's and a set of ACL E-7's I put TMCC in both and they're great runners and pullers. I also bought a Lehigh Valley Berk and it runs good and pulls good but I just can't get past the flywheel sticking out in the cab. I won't convert this one to TMCC I'd be a waste of money IMO.
O scale is the only scale I've ever dealt with were the motor sticks out into the cab on steam engines.
If it wasn't for that I'd be their best customer. That and the Tab in slot driver like the ones on the new 10 wheeler coarse I was already bias because I have a Legacy 10 wheeler. Stick a rivet in it Bachmann the extra 2 bucks isn't going to break anyone.

and figure out how to add backhead detail.

The price point is also becoming an issue as it is with Lionel but I knew when Bachmann got there hands on williams. I think they're just to big a company to really care much about one scale of the whole hobby.

David

As much as I like conventional operation for its simplicity and reliability I still wish that someone would invent a cruise control board for the older Pullmor A/C motored units. The way I see this done is with a sensing circuit that would require a board that would measure current draw and use this reading to raise or lower the running voltage. This control mechanism could possibly be done at the transformer end.