Kline Scale TMCC Hudson Problems

The command control in these two is sketchy at best. I had Gunrunnerjohn upgrade both of mine (5343 & 5344) to ERR with Cruise and his other smoke, chuff and lighting upgrades and it’s 1000% better. Beautiful models though. 

Mike

Thanks for the help because the smoke unit in that engine also doesn't work so I can get two problems fixed at one time

Go for it, Kline electronics have out lived their usefull lives.  You won’t regret it

Actually they came with all Lionel electronics. Nothing sketchy about them.

Symptoms suggest its not receiving the TMCC signal. Either the antenna came loose, the Radio Board is loose or the contacts are dirty or the R2LC is bad.

Pull the shell off the engine, check for loose wires and reseat all the boards. Then report back.

Pete

So Gary, I should buy the thing from ERR.

Pete where would the antenna be, would it be in the tender

The antenna are the railings on the engine. It should be insulated from the boiler. It enters the boiler at the rear and each railing has a wire soldered to it which get connected via wire nuts to another wire that goes to the motherboard the R2LC board is plugged into. You will lose signal if the antenna is shorted to the shell or if the wire gets disconnected from the R2LC. 

The stancions on the boiler are insulated and both ends of the railing should go through plastic grommets. Sometimes the grommets get lost and the railing shorts to the shell. 4 screws at the corners with get the shell off the frame.

Pete

I check those and they are in the holes but if it was the Antanna nothing would work but I can blow the whistle and the bell with no problem 

That rules out a lot but there is still connection between the radio board and the motor driver which is the other board in the engine plus it could be another problem on the radio board. Try reseating all the connectors before sending the engine out.

Pete

I tried resting the engine to factory reset but when you said something between the radio board and the motor. could that be the tether because the locomotive would work but then I take it to my local club then bring it back then it starts having the speed control problem. This makes me think that the tether has a lose wire in it and it has to be at a certain spot for it to work right.

The tether has nothing to do with the speed or the engine running. It only carries the signal for sound, rear coupler, and rear light. If the engine works Ok at your club but not on you layout it may be a problem with your command base or your connections to the track. Does the headlight blink or stay bright when you address the engine?

Pete

It has done this at my club too. I just tried it up there a week ago and I had this exact problem and the headlight does flicker when I address it

Brian

So could this mean there is something wrong inside the locomotive and not the tender

Yes.

What would it be inside the locomotive

Both of mine ran fine, a little rough, but ran okay but just not as smooth and responsive as the later electronics or the ERR boards. Maybe sketchy wasn’t the right word. 

Mike 

Yeah because my Hudson has worked before just a little rough. What boards did you add to your hudsons

Main PCB is / could be loose. Antenna maybe pinched as that starts inside the engine. I had Alex M completely upgrade my CCII Niagara with the EER unit mentioned above, fixed the smoke unit. Works like a charm

What is a Main PCB

You can replace the motor driver with a Cruise M but that won't fix the poor TMCC signal issue. That has to be resolved first.

Pete

So what should I order to fix this problem

I was going to add the cruise  control at some point. So I should order the Cruise M motor and a R2LC Board

sorry I am not an electronics person

Thanks for the help Pete and Mike

Hay Rugsy,

 One of the guy's in our group, The Raritan Valley Hi-Railers, has a K-Line K-4 Pacific which now runs great and a real looker to boot ( this response may address the signal issue). About a year ago, he was having issues with the loco and was getting really bugged with the problem. I have a DCS certification for repairs and I've dabble in Lionel issues, more of Lionel than DCS. Mostly I do it for the guy's in the group. I offered to take a look at the K-4, took it home, and for a half hour was trying to diagnose where the problem was. Here's what I discovered with it. K-Line uses the hand rails, just like Lionel's older models do. There are insulated grommits that go through the outside of the cab to the inside of the cab, to keep the handrails from touching the boiler body. All the stantions on the boiler are insulated, except the two in the center. The two in the center (one on each side) are metal connected to the handrail ( which is the antennae) and the stantion passes through a rubber grommit, with a wire attached on the inside, which goes to the antennae wire on the mother board. Might be wire nutted! I put an ohmeter on the handrail, after taking the shell off, then to the wire attached on the inside of the metal stantion and got some high resistance readings on both sides, plus the stantions seemed loose over the handrails. The only thing that could be done was to take a small file to the handrail and metal stantion so the surface would be clean for some soldering with 60/40 solder and dabbed a little Rosin paste on the filed joint prior to soldering. Prior to the repair the headlight blinked sporatically, which is a sign of a weak signal, but now stays on steady. Also you may want to take the same ohmeter and see if either handrail (check each one seperately) is grounding to the boiler body, if my suggestion doesn't reveal loose metal stantions.

I don't know if your model is similiar to the one that I repaired, but you have a head's up on where to look, if it is similiar. Happy to say that I've turned a sour puss into a happy camper.

     Steam Forever

            John

But the thing is that it doesn't work in conventional mode either. I run the locomotive at 15 volts in conventional mode but on my z4000 it says that ever 5 to 10 seconds it drops down to 12 to 14 volts for like a second and goes back to 15 volts. If it was in conventional mode would it work just fine if it was the antanna

I know for a fact it has nothing to do with my legacy base because I run my legacy k4 on the base no problem

I am just wondering if anyone else had this problem

I have the same Kline Hudson you do...………...It was all messed up in conventional, acted ok in command (legacy) with a light consist, put any real load on it and it would do stupid things. bad driver was my problem. ERR cruise M fixed that problem, and GRJ's smoke parts fixed the dated smoker.....hope that helps..

Thanks so I should add a cruise M motor

Cruise M won't fix this problem by itself. Its a signal issue that has to be resolved first. You seem to be reluctant to pull off the shell. At least two of us have told you about checking all the things related to the antenna and radio board.

To replace a board you will have pull off the shell. Why not do that first before spending money on parts.

Pete

rugsy3 posted:

Thanks so I should add a cruise M motor

ERR cruise M is a better motor driver board. If your not sure on how to properly diagnosis the issue, send it to one of the pros on here that can help you. some of us keep parts stash handy, so its not  so bad to do repairs like this. I have a Lionel driver board that I know is good, and I keep it handy for quick diagnosis jobs, Its just a simple TMCC one, so I don't care if it gets smoked.....if it fixes the issue on something else, then I'll go ahead and install the ERR components. Kline scale equipment is very nice stuff, but I swear sometimes I think Lionel used second rate electronics in them!...all 3 of my NYC Kline scale pieces are now ERR equipped. and all three have fan driven smoke units....one has GRJ's smoke equipment in it....the other two are on the list …...once the backshop gets the back log of routine PM work out the door!..

Where is the best place to order these parts

Rugsy3, as others have posted, diagnose the problem first. you will be frustrated beyond belief if you throw parts at something and it don't get fixed! My problems and corrections can only be limited to suggestions, each case can be different, like Pete said, check your signal system .....If you are uncomfortable around electronics, perhaps you can get help from your club?? To answer your question, look at 3rd Rail on the web. They now sell ERR products.