Legacy N&W J whistle steam poll

I don`t care about the whistling steam feature. I don`t use smoke much because smoke is smoke and it is all toxic. I love the locomotive though.

I would of bought the 611 if it had the steam feature.(I have a MTH 611 w/ps2)

 

UPDATE-I have decided to order the Lionel #612.

 

I'm on the fence on the SP 4-8-4's,I may end up getting all three Lionel offerings AND the MTH Black GS2 #4444. 

 

I have the Santa Fe 3751 with the working steam whistle and it's a show stopper! It's just fun,fun,fun!!

 

 

I have one steam whistle Legacy. It is a really great feature. It does influence me to buy it. 

>>I would have ordered both J's if they had the working steam whistle. 

I would have ordered one or two SP GS2's if they had a working steam whistle.

(Still on the fence on this one,MTH is offering these GS2's for $$ less w/PS3).

 I have the Santa Fe 3751 with the working steam whistle and it's a show stopper! It's just fun,fun,fun!!<<

 

The problem as I see it is residual value. 

Over the past four of five years with collector interest fading and repetitive production increasing, folks are becoming more selective about their purchases. I believe models that include newer features today will hold better value then those without tomorrow.

BTW, I'm happy you 're enjoying your SF Northern.

After looking over both catalogs, MTH & Lionel and finding nothing of interest, I just ordered one at a great price. 

Joe. 

I do like the whistle steam and I have the RS5 611J so it's a no buy for me on the new j. The whistle on the J I have is awesome so why buy the new one with just legacy. 

I've ordered it already.  I actually didn't pay any attention to whether it had whistle steam or not - I don't use the feature often although I agree its fun. 

 

Same thing goes for the GS-2 I ordered. 

 

I would have bought both the J and the Mohawk immediately if the steam whistle feature was included. As it stands, I am still considering whether to purchase or not. Probably I'll end up getting them, but with the steam whistles, it would have been an automatic order. I have really enjoyed the feature on the recent locomotives I have bought (and it is a noticeable omission on the others).

 

Bruce

I will be ordering the J. The whistle feature is not that big of a deal to me. After looking back at the past couple of catalogs the NKP 765 did not have any of those features and it listed at $1399.99 and it is a great locomotive. The 1225 Pere Marquette Berkshire listed out $1419.98 without any of these features another great locomotive. Both of these are now very hard to find as will be the J in the future. While the Railsound 5.0 does sound nice the Legacy sounds in my opinion is much better. Just my two cents.

If Lionel had released a J's in an number other than 611 and 612 I would bite. I have 5 MTH J's and I think they are 602,604,605,608,611.Hey wait a minute!!!

I need at 612!!! Sending email to my dealer!!!

 

As far as the SP GS2 /GS4 goes,I have the definitive GS4,the recent 3rd rail offering.IF MTH had offered it in any number than 4449,I'd bite. The Lionel GS2 daylight is 4115-Maybe.

 

I'm on the fence on the Warbaby GS2's May get all three 2-Lionel and 1-MTH.

I ordered the 612. I am a little bummed out it doesn't have whistle steam but not so much to not purchase it, this gives me the 606, 611, and now the 612.

I've ridden behind the 611. Stood beside her on several occasions. I know the sound of her breathing as she sets idle or she is at track speed passing by a grade crossing. Of all the engines that I most want to own and run on my Blue Ridge Mountain layout it is the J. I'm standing firm on my decision and passing on these latest offerings of the model. If the engines had steam chest blow down and whistle smoke I probably would have purchased both of them and they would have been the centerpieces of my layout. Unfortunately so far to date the only centerpieces I have are from other road names. Santa Fe 3751, Union Pacific 3967, New York Central Grey & Black Vision Line Hudsons, and a lonesome N&W Mallet. Good Luck selling these engines Lionel. The market is saturated with Js already. We don't need another fancy shell with just a sound and operating system upgrade. I'll run my pair of 606s until a worthwhile offering comes to your catalog.

I have declined to purchase this J based solely on the fact that it does not have added steam effects.

 

Had I not already had a J, 606, I might feel differently but I just cannot justify the purchase without getting more bang for my buck.  Sure the RS are hopefully better and Legacy control is a plus but that alone is just not enough.  As I stated in the other thread I understand Lionel's position so I hope they understand mine.

I'm ordering the 611 J as a set with the passenger cars.

 

Alex

I was definately in.

 

I beleive This would of been one of Lionels largest  volume sales.

 

 this is the first catalog i remember  since i was a kid that offered zero excitement in everyway,  huge let down for me .  Hopefully they will find a way around what ever the problem is for the next catalog.

 

 

I am still getting one. I'm sure the sounds will be amazing. I would have liked the whistle steam but it is not a deal breaker.

Cancelled mine today.

I really want a 611, and I can live without the smoking whistle, but since it is part of a set, whether I can swing it or not (pre-order wise) depends on when they expect to ship.

 

Andy

Not a big deal for me to have the whistle steam or bell swing or blow down. I would rather them spend the money on greater detail and better sound even though it is great now. I decided not to buy a new J because I could pick up the RS 5 version for half the price and this was before the catalog even came out. 

 

I think some of you guys put too much into what those items listed above really add to the enjoyment of your trains. I have some engines with whistle smoke and I like it but not a deal breaker when buying newer engines.  I want the engines to start to rival brass when it comes to detail not these add on's that few of us use or want.

Andy,

 

They 611 and 612 are expected to ship 2/13 but the passenger cars are due in June

And David I think some of you put too little into those items listed above.  Different strokes for different folks.

The new electronics and the "sequencing" of sounds are pretty much worth having more than the new smoke effects if I had to choose one. I don't run the smoke all the time, but I do of course run the sound sequencing all the time.

I have already ordered the 611 set, I want the passenger cars more then anything. I have the RS5 611 from a few years ago. I could not swing buying the passenger cars at that time, the B&O and SP daylight cars took preference then.

 

If they would have offered the cars separately I would have just ordered them. I also have the GS-2 daylight with RS5, so the 611 is the only steam engine from the Vol. 2 catalog I ordered. And I have to agree the Vol. 2 catalog was somewhat of a disappointment to me.

I would bet that there will be set breakups around.

 

Can't say that it's always important but it was for this engine.

More detail would always be nice (within reason as technology warrants)... but please don't assume you speak for the rest of us regarding the steam effects.  As I indicated in the other thread, there's a price-point at which any of us would probably ante in for this J (for whatever reason we'd want it).  But at the published prices, most who would purchase it now should do so knowing they're paying a premium price for nothing... just a price increase that's gonna get passed along and chewed up along the way.

 

So let's see... first we have engine-specific towercom/crewtalk for a couple of years that's considered standard across the line.  Now it's generic gibberish that gets duplicated across dozens of locomotives.  Then we get a taste of cool steam effects (whistle steam, steam-chest, etc...) for a couple of production runs, which seems to set a new standard for steam features.  Now it's already considered "too costly" to include.

 

Does anyone else notice a pattern here?  I thought so. 

 

David

And the sad part is, not more details just the same tooling for the last one.  No back head cab detail either.

Iam with marty NO j for me.

I will not be ordering because of the lack of features. I spoke to Lionel at York and was told the cost of adding whistle steam to the old tooling was the issue. All you are really buying here is a re-run of the older model. I guess that's ok if you don't have it, and if they sell out it's definitely the more profitable way to go for Lionel since they are priced as if they have the new features. I told them what I really want to see is a steam engine with all of the premium features - Whistle Steam, Blow-Down, Cylinder Steam, Self Adjusting Drawbar, Ashpan Glow and maybe one new feature like a built in video camera just so it can wear the Vision label. They asked me what I would pay and I told them $2000. I may be waiting a long time, but I would rather wait and pay more for an engine like that than purchase any of these.

They dont understand that these new features is what most of us want..I cant get over the s3.. Its beyond me 1000 bucks and yet the J is more with less features...

I agree with Marty and apparently many others.  I will not buy an engine at a premium price with NO extra smoke features.  I passed on the ATSF Berk, and I will be passing on the SP GS-6.  In a year or two if they are blown out I may pull the trigger on the purchase.  I agree with Patrick H, I found nothing in this catalog exciting.  Here's to a Vision Line Cab Forward in 2013....Come on Lionel redeem yourselves!

You forgot to mention the really expensive hudson with a fair share of electronic goodies packed into antique, incorrect/poorly detailed tooling. Have your cake and eat it too... no way.Judging by the way "hudson experts" rave over the detail of the k line version, can you imagine the result had Lionel aquired the hudson tooling like it did the k4, berk and mikado. It really could have been the "best hudson" the hobby has ever seen, and better justified the $1500 price tag. Bad time to be dropping the ball while Mike Wolf has his hands full in Europe,it only a matter of time before we start seeing more MTH steam.

Yea that is my gripe with the vl hudson to.. I still bought it though.. The vl challenger is money though.. The best steam engine period ...

I understand why people complain, but I'm not going to add to those complaints.  

 

I think I have them all: the V Hudson and the V Challenger are great. But I have all the latest Legacy steamer models, too, and like them.  I also have a recent MTH European PS3 steamer that is fantastic.   And some of the Lionel conventional steam locos - Atlantic, Shifter, are just superb.  The industry is doing a good job, I think.  We can't have every new feature on every new loco . . . 

 

I've ordered the J and the GS-2.  Hope they live up to recent experience.

Lee I agree to a degree but this J is now just a rehash of a RS5 engine.  It could have been a home run but it is just a stand up double.  The J is an icon.  I only wish it was treated as such.  I'm moving on though and looking for my next Lionel steamer...with whistle smoke effect.  LOL!

 

We can't have every new feature on every new loco . . .

You would be wrong.  I know of at least 6 folks locally all jazzed up about the 611 set.  They had pre-ordered even before they were announced with the LHS.  When it became apparent that the J would not have added steam effects they all cancelled.

 

Some folks are starting to find those features a must on some of their engines so it makes sense that they would change their minds once the J was announced not to have them.

 

If you say you wouldn't buy one because it doesn't have steam effects more than likely you weren't going to buy one anyways.

We have but three Legacy steamers and like them all. The K4 is almost as small as the Mikado yet it has whistle steam. The S3 Milwaukee Road has steam blow-down and great ambient sounds, three whistles, and the close drawbar. It's my favorite. Would rather have whistle steam than the blow down effect however if given a choice. The little Mike has neither but is a nice steamer nonetheless.

All three have the awful 'generic' cab chatter with the obnoxious engineer's voice (I was born in Brooklyn too)

 

Would love to have a great J but we'll pass on this one too due to the lack of features.

 

Didn't MTH's Gauge 1 Triplex has whistle steam several years ago? Did it also have a swinging bell?

Wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last.

Huh??? 

 

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  Sorry.

Sure it does, thats exactly how Lionel feels

Lol looks like I got under someones skin. Doesn't matter what you have seen them go for or whether you think they got a bad deal. They wanted it so they bought it. The 611 isn't as common as the 606 and usually brings more money on eBay. But $6-700 is the normal going price on a used engine. 

Simply put, people that want a legacy J will buy the engine regardless of smoke effects. Its a simple business decision for Lionel. I stand by my comment that people who want this engine will buy it even without whistle effects.

Now then, let the wolves come and attack.