Legacy N&W J whistle steam poll

True, but does it have a swinging bell?

Isn't the bell recessed and the clapper a air ringer? Or am I being stupid?

Dead on accurate. The bell on the J, I believe, is tucked up somewhere around the lead truck. 

Well, THAT's just bad!!! No swinging bell,,,,,I'm not getting one.

Oh no! Why did I buy the new J? No swinging bell, no whistle steam, what did I do?  Do I need help because I did buy it? Oh my!!!

No you need help for mocking those who chose not to buy it because of those missing features. Enjoy your loco. 

Gee, all this time I thought simulating what the steam loco does made it more interesting.

Seeing the "steam" come out of the whistle is cool, you see.

It's one of the reasons we love steamers.

So . . . . . 

Hopefully Lionel reads this.

Please excuse the bold letters.

They will be easier for the marketing people at Lionel to read.

No whistle steam----No credit card steam  

Hey Eliot.....sounds like you are a little "steamed" about not having the steam!!

Alan

Come on guys, I'm just kidding. Nobody likes the extra features more then me like whistle steam but it will not stop me from buying engines I like if they don't Have those features. 

As I have explained many times previously; unless it is fairly cool/cold outside, modern steam locomotives, especially those with superheated steam whistles, don't actually exhibit visible steam vapor exiting the whistle.

Jack,

I'm certain you are correct.

Not a shred of doubt in my mind.

it just so happens that on the Munoz Lines it is really, really cold when the steamers are running. When the "whistle steamers" are running it must be really, really cold because I can see the steam coming out of the whistle. So . . . .  When I go downstairs and I feel the cold just creaking my old bones, why I run right over to the layout and I fire up those steamers to see the whistle steam. It just shivers me timbers to see that whistle steam on those cold, cold days here on the Munoz Lines.

Did I mention it must be really cold because I can see that whistle steam !

Whooooooooooo, wooooooooooooooo

whoooooosssssshhhhhhhhhh

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

There seems to be some disfunction going on at Lionel and the "dropping" of a popular feature like whistle smoke and pricing the engine even higher. Whoever writes the descriptions of the products, is not in sync with reality of what has been delivered. For example, the Gensets. The later ones with out the smoke features of the first one, are still advertised as having them. Kind gives one a bad taste of the company credibility in general and unfulfilled expectations are just another similar issue.

It's becoming a take what you can get for major prices, and fix it yourself hobby. I do have to say that Mike and the repair facility have been very responsive, but the company has created the environment requiring it.

Just my take...

cjack

Part of the issue is the cost and work of re-tooling and existing tool to add these features.  I spoke at some length with Mike about this. 

I believe as new tooling is done, most likely, if no other mechanical issues persist, then these feature will be implemented.  Remember these are fairly small production runs so the cost of using existing tooling without modification is a plus to consumer and the manufacturer/importer.

Perhaps true, but most folks wouldn't give a hoot.  It's all part of the magic that goes into how we create our imaginary model railroad worlds, and the last things we're gonna worry about are the laws of physics and how they apply to steam whistle vapors.   Let's get real.

Bottom line is it's a cool feature that was delivered throughout much of 2012, and it's noticeably missed in the newest steamers.

cjack really hit the nail squarely on the head.  It's all about perception.  You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out that Lionel dropped the ball on this feature, and we're now paying more for less.  

True... Overseas manufacturing in China doesn't come without its share of increased complications today.  So it's just EASIER for the importers to simply churn out stuff with as few tooling changes as possible.  It's the KISS principle.  We get that.  What's a little tougher to stomach is all this coming on the heels of the blow-out deals where some terrific steamers could be had for $699-$799 WITH the feature.  Now we're back to $1100+ WITHOUT the feature.  And if we believe the rumors, we may not see this feature again except for select Vision Line products, which by definition  have premium price points. 

David

On the other hand, maybe Lionel simply had WAY TOO MANY warranty issues with the "smoke out of the whistle" as well as the "smoke out of the cylinders" features (and the swinging bell also), and made a management/business decision to drop those features?

Absolutely.  No one would want a "prototypically invisible" whistle steam effect (come to think about it, nearly all my steamers have that already!).  Everyone wants a thick, energetic and very visible steam stream. 

Whistle steam is a neat feature, as is the swinging bell. But they do not make a difference in my buying decisions.  I only buy locos that are on the list of locomotives I want but do not yet have, a list down to less than a dozen now.  I will buy a new, scale, Legacy or PS3 model on that list regardless of whether it has these features, and I will not replace a unit I already have with a new one just to get these features.  So, in that sense, it's not relevant. 

But I'd still rather have, than not have, both . . .

If that's the case, it creates a dynamite opening for MTH to start including some of them and steal business away from the Lionel steamers.

That's a good point gunrunnerjohn - MTH had whistle steam on their Gauge One Triplex several years ago, surely they could adapt that technology to the larger steamers?  It might help them catch up for the loss of sales these past two years on Premiere steamers that were unavailable.

No thanks... I'll pass on the orange koolaid this time around. 

Ironically, I think that's EXACTLY why Lionel introduced the feature... as a differentiator over MTH's steamers which were long held in high regard for their detail and voluminous smoke units!

Little did Lionel (or any of us for that matter) know that MTH would run into MAJOR manufacturer/factory issues that would pretty much keep them out of the U.S. steam market for almost two years.  So combine that with the fact that overseas production in China these days seems like the wild, wild west... and it was probably just easier for Lionel to eliminate any mechanical re-tooling requirements "just" for whistle-steam on its latest steamers.  It's easy enough to make ANYTHING sound like a business decision... but given where we are these days economically, it seems more likely they removed the feature simply because they felt it wasn't "needed" while MTH steam was off to the sidelines -- albeit temporarily.  And Lionel also has a major leg up on MTH now with Legacy Railsounds.

David

I can't believe that MTH can't improve the sound of their stuff with better speakers and acoustical design.  They might have to do some work on the sound sets as well.  Surely, the electronics is up to the task in the PS/3 boards.  If not, shame on them!  Give me the extra features, Legacy quality sound, and competitive pricing, and I can be an MTH convert in a heartbeat.

For me,  all these fancy features are trouble waiting to happen. Without exception, all my Legacy equipment has had to returned to Lionel for malfunction of these "extra" features. I think more detail and reliability are more Important  than a steaming whistle or a moving bell.

And I still say that some of my new PS3 locomotives are right up there in the sound department with Legacy, and I have always preferred MTH`s steam sounds to Lionel.

Robert

I live for trouble Robert.

Me too John.  The features for me have been pretty much trouble free.  I want 'em!

I've only had issues with a couple of the Legacy locomotives right out of the box.  A couple more have needed maintenance after some running, but nothing out of the ordinary.  I left the PW conventional camp when I came back to the hobby and saw the TMCC/DCS/Legacy stuff, I knew that was where I wanted to be.

I am with you Marty.  I want the smoking whistle, swinging bells and whatever cool feature Lionel can dream up.  These features enhance what I perceive to be the play value and motivate me to purchase engines that have them.  Conversely, I am less apt to buy feature-less engines that retail at prices in line with what I paid for feature rich engines.  The reality is I have more engines than I need (like I need any of them) and I will only buy engines that I perceive to have a high play value.  This is true for my purchasing and may or may not be how anyone else decides to purchase....to each their own.

....and walk on the wild side.

Don't worry about it. Obviously you were making a joke, but some folks even take jokes seriously.
Nothing like a good mock to clear the air!

This does appear to be a great time for MTH to drastically step-up their game with the (supposedly) enhanced capabilities of PS3 as  far as sound quality goes. True, there have been several posters who say their PS3 sounds are better but many have said the opposite. The difference should be 'clear' to all hearers!

I've liked our MTH steamers but the chuff sounds are almost identical in the ones we've had. I'm talking a Premiere Santa Fe Northern and a RK Ten-wheeler - the chuffs are too close. Hopefully MTH will do what it takes to move up here and soon.

Of course!

If MTH would really "up their game", I would hope that would kick Lionel into coming back around to offering more of the stuff we want to buy as well.

I agree...because I guess it wasn't obvious by using the term "mock" my joking intention wasn't thoroughly perceived as well.

Don't worry about it. Obviously you were making a joke, but some folks even take jokes seriously.
Nothing like a good mock to clear the air!

The limitations of ASCII, sometimes the subtle expressions don't come through.

To add my name to the list of those who have already voted......

Lionel....No whistle steam...no purchase

Steve

Meanwhile, down in Roanoke today, bIg news:

Http://fireup611.org/donate/

Yippee...make a donation today...I did. i want to ride behind 611!!!!

Well you will miss out on allot of great engines and already have missed out On some like the class J and Mohawk.