LionChief 0-6-0T here

Just left Trainland with the Reading model in tow. 😁😁

Can't wait to get it on the rails later. 👍👍

Bob

I bought a 2020 version but it had problems with derailing on Atlas O-54 turnouts until I re-gauged the wheels. I run it conventionally but still don't think it runs well, especially at slow speeds. Watching it run provides a good example of "dynamic augment," the vertical pounding effect due to dynamic imbalance (and mechanical sloppiness) of the rotating/reciprocating machinery.  As a New Haven fan I considered buying the latest version but decided against it due to my experience and also due to price.

MELGAR

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have to believe they're the same as the 2020 run, they sure look and run the same.  However, there are no parts listings for those either.

Shoot like to get another engineer figure to personalize.  Then know for Sure how to get to the cab to exchange the figures.

Ron

If memory serves me right, @PRRronbh, the cabs are tight on these. I don't think the figures even have legs. Getting to them isn't too hard though.

@PRRronbh posted:

Shoot like to get another engineer figure to personalize.  Then know for Sure how to get to the cab to exchange the figures.

When you take the shell off, the whole center of the cab is a big cavity, you just reach in and can easily access the figures.

@PRRronbh posted:

Shoot like to get another engineer figure to personalize.  Then know for Sure how to get to the cab to exchange the figures.

Ron

I just had mine open today (tried to 3D scan them with my phone - failed).  There are 4 screws that hold the shell on.  Two in the rear, on the exterior of the locomotive.  Two in the front, behind the coupler on either side of the leading pickup roller.  It may take some effort to pop the shell off, and there are 4 hand rails in the front to watch out for when removing/reinstalling the shell - two down to the front, two down to the cylinders.

There are two plugs between the shell and the board - one large for lighting and one small for the handrail antennas.  Make sure they are fully seated before you reinstall the shell.

@MELGAR posted:

I bought a 2020 version but it had problems with derailing on Atlas O-54 turnouts until I re-gauged the wheels. I run it conventionally but still don't think it runs well, especially at slow speeds. Watching it run provides a good example of "dynamic augment," the vertical pounding effect due to dynamic imbalance (and mechanical sloppiness) of the rotating/reciprocating machinery.

Melgar it sounds like one or more of its driving wheels are "out of quarter."  The crankpins on opposite sides of each set of driving wheels have to be at EXACTLY the same angle relative to each other, otherwise you end up with the behavior you describe.

If you removed the wheels from the axles to re-gauge them, they might have gotten out of quarter (easy to do when you remove wheels from axle), or perhaps it came that way from the factory.  The good news is, since these locos have a "bottom plate," for a modest cost you can order three new wheelsets from Lionel and replace them yourself.  That should definitively address any issues with gauging and quartering.  Heck, for the cost of shipping I would order a set of side rods as well and compare them to what's on there.  Experiment, swap things around until it smooths out.

I wish it were always this easy.  With the majority of locos in 3-rail O, you would be looking at buying a whole new chassis!

@Ted S posted:

Melgar it sounds like one or more of its driving wheels are "out of quarter."

If you removed the wheels from the axles to re-gauge them, they might have gotten out of quarter.

The wheels/axles/rods are not out-of-quarter. I did not remove the wheels to adjust the gauge - just applied distributed pressure to the outer faces of the wheels to reduce the gauge.

Two photos show phasing of the rods and driving wheels. In forward motion, the left (fireman’s) side driving wheels lead the right (engineer’s) side driving wheels by exactly 90 degrees. In a real locomotive, the right side would lead by 90 degrees, so the model is incorrect in that sense, but it has no effect on the model’s operation.

The rod assemblies seem to have very wide tolerances. Not the best thing for smooth operation.

MELGAR

@PRRronbh, a Lionel P/N is cs-6208530055-p.  I did a search for dockside on Lionel's website, then looked up the parts for Reading Docksider 6-28613 and found this engineer figure.  The figure is most likely the same

John, PSM and ZEKE thanks for the replies.  Today I going to see a lady 10-years my senior she in a admitted living/ rehab center.   After breaking her foot had to be moved into a rehab which in this case is also an assisted living.  A few weeks ago she fell and broke a Femur.  I want to get up there every week so she dose not feel forgotten!

One point seeing your info am concerned work on this small engine because I have BIG paws!

Ron

@MELGAR posted:

The rod assemblies seem to have very wide tolerances. Not the best thing for smooth operation.

I replaced the rods on both of mine with the old conventional model's rods, problem solved.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I replaced the rods on both of mine with the old conventional model's rods, problem solved.

I did the same on my earlier LC+2.0 version, I agree it worked quite well.

Was this a random problem? Seems that some had a "wobble" issue while running but not all. I didn't notice any smooth operation issues the last time I ran mine that I recall. What P/N side rods do I need incase? Sorry if it was already posted here.

Brad

John and PSM I take it both of you have taken your 0-6-0T apart.  Is the engineer figure attached to the frame casting or the Cab/Boiler casting??  If the frame casting is there enough slack in the two wires to reposition the two casting such that I could get to the engineer figure to repaint the cap, head and face wit grey bread and mustache and also part over the jacket in a lighter blue?

Ron

@PRRronbh posted:

John and PSM I take it both of you have taken your 0-6-0T apart.  Is the engineer figure attached to the frame casting or the Cab/Boiler casting??  If the frame casting is there enough slack in the two wires to reposition the two casting such that I could get to the engineer figure to repaint the cap, head and face wit grey bread and mustache and also part over the jacket in a lighter blue?

When you remove the shell, the figures sit on a shelf with a big hole in the middle.  It should be easy to remove the figures for whatever painting adjustments you desire.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

When you remove the shell, the figures sit on a shelf with a big hole in the middle.  It should be easy to remove the figures for whatever painting adjustments you desire.

John thanks for all the info>

Ron

So I have a 0-6-0 conventional Santa Fe. Would it be crazy to put a LC2.0 board and speaker in and convert it?

With the Lionel parts sale coming up it may be worth the investment.

Thoughts?

Cause I need more projects too....🤣🤣

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

So I have a 0-6-0 conventional Santa Fe. Would it be crazy to put a LC2.0 board and speaker in and convert it?

With the Lionel parts sale coming up it may be worth the investment.

Thoughts?

Cause I need more projects too....🤣🤣

Bob

As an admitted techno-peasant, I can’t speak to the complexity of the conversion, but as a command control aficionado, I’d say it’s worth the upgrade (I have two of the LionChief + 2.0 versions - the BEDT and a New Haven). Look at the bright side… an upgrade will keep you off the streets and out of trouble

@RSJB18 posted:

So I have a 0-6-0 conventional Santa Fe. Would it be crazy to put a LC2.0 board and speaker in and convert it?

With the Lionel parts sale coming up it may be worth the investment.

Given that the street price of the current versions is around $300 for the LC+ 2.0 versions, I'd just shop for one of those.

@Apples55 posted:

As an admitted techno-peasant, I can’t speak to the complexity of the conversion, but as a command control aficionado, I’d say it’s worth the upgrade (I have two of the LionChief + 2.0 versions - the BEDT and a New Haven). Look at the bright side… an upgrade will keep you off the streets and out of trouble

The 0-6-0 has become my favorite engine. I was running both last night and had a brain fart......

The bodies and drive trains are same (the motor in the old one is different) so the non-techno-pesasant in me got to thinking....

@gunrunnerjohn- true. Like I said just a brain fart. Besides I have more than enough projects going as is.....

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

The 0-6-0 has become my favorite engine. I was running both last night and had a brain fart......

The bodies and drive trains are same (the motor in the old one is different) so the non-techno-pesasant in me got to thinking....

@gunrunnerjohn- true. Like I said just a brain fart. Besides I have more than enough projects going as is.....

Bob

I have both as well Bob.  I got the older one used for $75 and bought the newer one used on the forum.  I didn't like the smoke puffer on the older one, but it works much better after a modification I did.

If you want a few of the silicone o-rings I bought contact me using my profile and I'll mail you a few.  I have too many.

John

I converted one of the original Docksiders to TMCC a long time ago, I've since sold it.  One sticking point of upgrading the conventional one is giving it electrocouplers is a major PITA!  I finally got a rear one fitted, but after that experience, I decided that a front coupler wasn't in the cards.  Couplers, fan driven smoke, better sound, there's just too many things to upgrade for it to make sense to upgrade the conventional model, at least IMO.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I converted one of the original Docksiders to TMCC a long time ago, I've since sold it.  One sticking point of upgrading the conventional one is giving it electrocouplers is a major PITA!  I finally got a rear one fitted, but after that experience, I decided that a front coupler wasn't in the cards.  Couplers, fan driven smoke, better sound, there's just too many things to upgrade for it to make sense to upgrade the conventional model, at least IMO.

the EC's would have been an issue.

I'll crawl back under my rock now.......

@RSJB18 posted:

So I have a 0-6-0 conventional Santa Fe. Would it be crazy to put a LC2.0 board and speaker in and convert it?

With the Lionel parts sale coming up it may be worth the investment.

Thoughts?

Cause I need more projects too....🤣🤣

.....The 0-6-0 has become my favorite engine.....

Bob

I have that same Santa Fe conventional version (from the first production of the docksider). I've mentioned this before, but it runs like a sewing machine, whereas the Rio Grande LC+ docksider I got doesn't seem to run as smoothly. I changed the rods, too, to see if that would help, but it didn't seem to make a lot of difference. It's ok, but was a little disappointing considering how well the conventional Santa Fe runs.

@breezinup posted:

I have that same Santa Fe conventional version (from the first production of the docksider). I've mentioned this before, but it runs like a sewing machine, whereas the Rio Grande LC+ docksider I got doesn't seem to run as smoothly. I changed the rods, too, to see if that would help, but it didn't seem to make a lot of difference. It's ok, but was a little disappointing considering how well the conventional Santa Fe runs.

Try putting the rods from the Santa Fe conventional model on the LC+ one.

@breezinup posted:

I have that same Santa Fe conventional version (from the first production of the docksider). I've mentioned this before, but it runs like a sewing machine, whereas the Rio Grande LC+ docksider I got doesn't seem to run as smoothly. I changed the rods, too, to see if that would help, but it didn't seem to make a lot of difference. It's ok, but was a little disappointing considering how well the conventional Santa Fe runs.

Exactly why I mentioned an upgrade. It runs great, even after taking a swann dive to the floor after it got bitten by a shirt sleeve.....can't say I love the conventional whistle tho....🤣🤣

I have one of these little engines as well.....LC+2 Docksider.

I completed the modifications that John noted, namely fixing the chuff rate and changing the side rods.

There was a noticeable improvement however it does not run near as smooth as my Polar Express LC+2.

The first speed step is just okay, not smooth but second speed step is more acceptable.

Just the nature of this small engine.  I have also watched many YouTube videos and noted that many did not run smooth at the first and sometimes second speed step.

Acceptable for the price.

@RSJB18 posted:

can't say I love the conventional whistle tho....🤣🤣

Maybe it's just because I grew up with the conventional one, but I prefer it to the ones on the LC+2.0.  I wish it was one of the 5 options.

@PSM posted:

Maybe it's just because I grew up with the conventional one, but I prefer it to the ones on the LC+2.0.  I wish it was one of the 5 options.

Here's what a real 0-6-0T sounds like, at least one example.

@breezinup posted:

I changed the rods, too, to see if that would help, but it didn't seem to make a lot of difference. It's ok, but was a little disappointing considering how well the conventional Santa Fe runs.

Here's one of mine after I put the new rods on it.  I didn't really expect much more given that this has the back-EMF LC+ 2.0 board, overall I'm pretty happy with it for $200.  Important point, this does have cruise, do once it's moving it's pretty consistent in speed.  The very low speed isn't great, but that's probably more the gear ratio and electronics.

It's also dragging my magnetic debris pickup car, the large magnet actually creates a lot of drag simply attracting it to the track.

"I didn't really expect much more given that this has the back-EMF LC+ 2.0 board, overall I'm pretty happy with it for $200.  Important point, this does have cruise, do once it's moving it's pretty consistent in speed.  The very low speed isn't great, but that's probably more the gear ratio and electronics."

For $200, but the current ones are $315 (cheapest street price). Your comments about possibly the back EMF board or gearing or electonics affecting the performance was interesting. Sounds kind of like the impression is that the performance is fine, although not outstanding, which is my view.

Here's a video of my conventional Santa Fe conventional "Swiss watch" taken in January. This isn't a demonstration of slow speed running, obviously, but it does do very well at slow speeds. My Rio Grande LC plus version gets use as well, although it's not as smooth a runner.

Breezinup,

Your post shows why I always buy conventional.  :-)

Mannyrock

"$315 (cheapest street price)"

Small difference but preorder from some places like Charles Ro was $299.

@Mannyrock posted:

Your post shows why I always buy conventional.  :-)

Is it that you always buy conventional, or always run what you buy in conventional?

There were several potential "issues" mentioned in that post.  Which specifically are your reasons for sticking exclusively with conventional?

By extension then I assume, because of all manner of new-fangled remote control being found on all recent stuff, you avoid purchasing nearly everything produced within the last 30 years -- at all costs.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Lots of totally conventional stuff still being made, or available NIB at reasonable prices.  I have learned that the best running ones have dual can motors, and flywheels.  Williams in particular.

Lionchief 2.0 engines were supposed to happily run in conventional,  and were so advertised.  But lots of folks reported problems on this board in trying to do that.

So, I passed them by.

I know that lots of folks don't mind buying complicated things, and then constantly fiddling with them, adjusting them, modifying them, and tuning them, . . .  but to me it is just a big headache, not fun at all.

So, I just stick with what works right out of the box.  And if it doesn't, I send it back the next day.

Fortunately I have several other absorbing hobbies, plus my regular work, to keep me busy.  :-)

Mannyrock

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Here's one of mine after I put the new rods on it.  I didn't really expect much more given that this has the back-EMF LC+ 2.0 board, overall I'm pretty happy with it for $200.  Important point, this does have cruise, do once it's moving it's pretty consistent in speed.  The very low speed isn't great, but that's probably more the gear ratio and electronics.

It's also dragging my magnetic debris pickup car, the large magnet actually creates a lot of drag simply attracting it to the track.

John,

I thought you modified it to 2-chuffs instead of 4?

John

@Mannyrock posted:

I know that lots of folks don't mind buying complicated things, and then constantly fiddling with them, adjusting them, modifying them, and tuning them, . . .  but to me it is just a big headache, not fun at all.

I have minimal problem with most new stuff, although there are clinkers. Conventional stuff is not immune from issues as well.  Also, I get all the latest wizzbang features with my command engines.

If you're happy with conventional running, there's no reason for us to try to talk you out of it.  I ran conventional for years, and I vastly prefer command operation.  All my conventional stuff is gone or converted to command.

@Craftech posted:

John,

I thought you modified it to 2-chuffs instead of 4?

John

I did, that was a video before the mod.  I did both of mine.

@Landsteiner posted:

"$315 (cheapest street price)"

Small difference but preorder from some places like Charles Ro was $299.

That ship has sailed, of course. They're $315 at Ro presently. Even at $299, that's 33% more than what GRJ was basing part of his evaluation on.

In any case, I (and many others) don't preorder, but prefer a wait and see approach. There have been too many instances of the as-produced version being significantly different from the cataloged version, particularly involving paint variations. I suppose with primarily black engines, that risk is small, although sometimes other issues lurk.

Point taken about the current pricing.  But there is this. Still the least expensive command equipped steam locomotive in three rail O gauge, I believe.  And one has the choice of operating using TMCC/Legacy, Bluetooth via the app or the universal remote.  So I think the value is there, even if not quite as much of a bargain as pre-pandemic.   Or it can operate conventionally, obviously, although not with all the features available in command.  Everything else has increased in price too, with rare exceptions.  Toy trains have gone up quite a bit, almost without exception.