Lionel 1996 N&W Warhorse Set Mint in Box!

Great video. I still have some very fond memories of this set. For me I purchased the locomotive separately in 1999 or 2000 for about $550. At the time I would have been 15 or 16, so this was a HUGE purchase for me. 

While the scale J's that have come along since then are wonderful, there is something about the sound set in this locomotive that is truly special. An issue of Lionel's Inside Track from 96 or early 97 recounts how Lionel went out and recorded the locomotive not too long before it finished it's first excursion career in 1994. The sounds in the Warhorse J are some of the best in terms of the attack and release on the whistle, bell, etc. It was much simpler to put "raw" sound files into a locomotive back then, where as today the sounds need to be modified to an extent to play correctly with a quill-able whistle in the Legacy system.

This set really is a time machine. Thanks for posting the video. 

I don't know what you are listening to, but, that whistle on the Warhorse is awful! Even more so in the nose to nose comparo!

Enjoy your new  Warhorse set from 1996.

I have one, would never sell it.

I was confused at first and finally realized that the J on the right was the Legacy Pilot that I forgot you had. I marveled at the difference in size and details.

I want one...

Big Jim posted:

I don't know what you are listening to, but, that whistle on the Warhorse is awful! Even more so in the nose to nose comparo!

Agree 1,000%!  Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder... Or in this case, the ear.  

Having said that, I'm sure folks "collecting" MPC product would be more than happy to find a mint set like this to be enjoyed -- however dated that poor sound-set might sound to our ears.

David

Things sure do change in nearly 20 years. As much as I prefer scale locomotives, there is still a lot of charm from the postwar-sized locos, and the modern reissues can be found for very pleasant bargains.

The postwar-sized 746 type J would be great if brought back as a LionChief+ loco.

N&W 1218 posted:

 

Everything worked right out of the box.

Imagine that! 

Enjoy your set.

I have this set, and I believe I bought it off of David :-)

I love it, mine worked out of the box, and the whistle and sounds are recorded from an actual J hauling coal to Pittsburgh on one of its last runs...

Kevin

Nice video and layout.

I also have that set. The engine is in a display box and I just recently pulled the cars out of the box to drag behind the my Lionmaster 1218.

It doesn't look bad at all. At least to me.

John, mine actually did to. But I was definitely nervous reading the issues.

Larry

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ZWPOWER13 posted:

I have this set, and I believe I bought it off of David :-)

I love it, mine worked out of the box, and the whistle and sounds are recorded from an actual J hauling coal to Pittsburgh on one of its last runs...

I guess some of the guys don't like the actual J sounds.

"however dated that poor sound-set might sound to our ears."

Oh, please. For the times, it was excellent. It is much better than Protosound(1). 

I have one of these sets - my first TMCC loco, and I haven't "voluntarily" operated conventionally since. Finally I was driving the locomotive and not the track.

It runs abominably, though - always did. The gearing must be horrible. The over-speed then bogging - depending on where it is on the layout (I have no grades) - means that it sits on a shelf. I plan to attempt a can motor/ERR conversion one day. (...if time ever...).

Why do that fancy/schmancy on a low-end loco?

Because I turned it into a streamlined N&W K-2 class 4-8-2 years ago; scratch-built a tender (brass/styrene) for it, using the original electronics, frame, and added stretched truck spacing. A scale Lionel 2-axle truck on the rear (from a 2-6-6-2), larger, spoked front wheels (from a General!). I love the look. Hate the behavior. One day, one day...my re-numbering on the skirting needs some love, and, while I know it's not a 3rd Rail "baby J" 4-8-2, the size is closer to that than a Northern, and it has that look of the Lionel J that makes it my favorite PW Lionel steamer, bar none.  

ZWPOWER13 posted:

and the whistle and sounds are recorded from an actual J hauling coal to Pittsburgh on one of its last runs...

It well may have been, but, it doesn't really matter if it can't be reproduced. And, that is one very sick, as in ill, sounding whistle.

D500,
Nice job making that K2a.

Big Jim posted:

ZWPOWER13 posted:

and the whistle and sounds are recorded from an actual J hauling coal to Pittsburgh on one of its last runs...

It well may have been, but, it doesn't really matter if it can't be reproduced. And, that is one very sick, as in ill, sounding whistle.

D500,
Nice job making that K2a.

Wasn't that the idea behind the "Warhorse" series? Old, beat up, worn out and "sick" locomotives that were seeing there final days in service.

Exactly.  I have this set too and it's a blast.  Also have an extra set of weathered hoppers,

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Big Jim posted:

I don't know what you are listening to, but, that whistle on the Warhorse is awful! Even more so in the nose to nose comparo!

Agree 1,000%!  Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder... Or in this case, the ear.  

Having said that, I'm sure folks "collecting" MPC product would be more than happy to find a mint set like this to be enjoyed -- however dated that poor sound-set might sound to our ears.

David

First, the "Warhorse" series was not "MPC" by a (large) number of years.

Second, the Warhorse series was one of my favorite Lionel series of the '90s.  Great weathering, pretty good runners, and, sound - well that's up to one's ears.  I like - and own - the entire series.

At one time I owned 24 weathered hoppers. Charles Ro sold them when he was breaking up the sets. 

Tired and worn, but still going, was the theme of the Warhorse series. There's something about a pullmor motor when runnng a train. Getting the momentum set on these engines is a trick but it sure helps especially going up and down grades. 

The framed photo on the wall at the beginning of the video is from the bottom of my original box. The lid had an elliptical shape with the date and Warhorse written in it. It also proudly read Chesterfield, MI! 

When I attended the Lionel sale in Chesterfield in 2001 I picked up at least 2 or 3 engine and tender shells from this set. If you look close, you can see a tender shell on a flatcar on the shelf as the set rounds the first corner in the video. They were selling of everything, so much a pound. They also had a lot of these sets for sale but Grysboski ended up buying the whole lot so I didn't get another set. I'll bet he's still got a set or to around the warehouse. 

tr18 posted:

Big Jim posted:

ZWPOWER13 posted:

and the whistle and sounds are recorded from an actual J hauling coal to Pittsburgh on one of its last runs...

It well may have been, but, it doesn't really matter if it can't be reproduced. And, that is one very sick, as in ill, sounding whistle.

D500,
Nice job making that K2a.

Wasn't that the idea behind the "Warhorse" series? Old, beat up, worn out and "sick" locomotives that were seeing there final days in service.

The looks, not the sounds. Did you pay any attention to the sound of the bell? The bell sounded fine.

Big Jim posted:

tr18 posted:

Big Jim posted:

It well may have been, but, it doesn't really matter if it can't be reproduced. And, that is one very sick, as in ill, sounding whistle.

D500,
Nice job making that K2a.

Wasn't that the idea behind the "Warhorse" series? Old, beat up, worn out and "sick" locomotives that were seeing there final days in service.

The looks, not the sounds. Did you pay any attention to the sound of the bell? The bell sounded fine.

Isn't that because the bell works by the fireman's hand pulling the cord? The engine is supposed to be old and weary, but the crew should be in reasonably healthy shape.

Big Jim posted:

ZWPOWER13 posted:

and the whistle and sounds are recorded from an actual J hauling coal to Pittsburgh on one of its last runs...

It well may have been, but, it doesn't really matter if it can't be reproduced. And, that is one very sick, as in ill, sounding whistle.

D500,
Nice job making that K2a.

I recorded the sounds for this model from the 611 in Ohio, not on a coal-hauling run to Pittsburgh. The whistle and other sounds are supposed to sound distressed, that's the point!

Great to know Rudy! Thanks for adding to the meaning of this set. 

rthomps posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Big Jim posted:

I don't know what you are listening to, but, that whistle on the Warhorse is awful! Even more so in the nose to nose comparo!

Agree 1,000%!  Beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder... Or in this case, the ear.  

Having said that, I'm sure folks "collecting" MPC product would be more than happy to find a mint set like this to be enjoyed -- however dated that poor sound-set might sound to our ears.

David

First, the "Warhorse" series was not "MPC" by a (large) number of years.

Second, the Warhorse series was one of my favorite Lionel series of the '90s.  Great weathering, pretty good runners, and, sound - well that's up to one's ears.  I like - and own - the entire series.

Well, that's what I get for not typing "MPC/LTI" (like I normally do when talking about stuff back in those days).    I recall selling my Mint N&W set to Mark (ZWPOWER13) here on the forum -- still shrink-wrapped in the box if I'm not mistaken.  That was probably part of my very first OGR for-sale listing I posted about 5 or 6 years ago when I sold most of my MPC/LTI stuff.

Glad you like the series.

David

Railsounds posted:

... The whistle and other sounds are supposed to sound distressed ...

That is quite the "understatement", Rudy -- even for a set made in 1996!!!  Thankfully, Railsounds has come a L-O-N-G way in 20 years!!!    (But at least the bell sounded quite good back then.)

David

I loved the way you could hear the rods clanking in the sound package.  We had one on the display layout in the store I worked in at the time.  With a few drops of oil, it was by far the smoothest PullMor powered engine we ever saw.

Jon  

Its amazing how many people can't help but rain on other people's parade.

I'm taking the engine and tender over to CJack's today and we're going to add an electrocoupler and back up light to the tender. All of the electronics is there, they just didn't take advantage of them at the time. I remember when electrocouplers became available in 1997. I added a set to my Lionel GP Centennial engine after I got it. 

I'm also going to give the pullmor a few drops of oil while we're working on things. 

CharlieS posted:

Its amazing how many people can't help but rain on other people's parade.

You do realize where you logged in today, right?  

N&W 1218 posted:

I'm taking the engine and tender over to CJack's today and we're going to add an electrocoupler and back up light to the tender. All of the electronics is there, they just didn't take advantage of them at the time.

Yup, those are doable things, and nice updates to a classic set.

The proper locomotive wiring was done at the factory, and the tether already carries those connections to the tender. All that's needed for the ElectroCoupler and back-up light is to tie one lead from each to the correct wires from the tether, and then connect the other lead on each to ground.

See the wiring diagrams below.

TRW

I had all three of the Warhorse sets but sold them off long ago. The J whistle sounds better at cruising speed. I liked this era of Lionel's production, did you notice how nice these trains smell when you first open the box? Must have been the grease they were using at the time. Sorry if that sounds weird ha.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I had all three of the Warhorse sets but sold them off long ago. The J whistle sounds better at cruising speed. I liked this era of Lionel's production, did you notice how nice these trains smell when you first open the box? Must have been the grease they were using at the time. Sorry if that sounds weird ha.

And here I thought I was the only one...

Actually, besides the lubricants, I believe the smell from the black oxide finish on the motors and frame parts helps contribute to what hits the nose when opening train boxes.

TRW

With a slight mod to the tender truck I closed the gap to the engine by 3/8".  Looks much better.  And the bell is right up there with the best of them.  RICH

N&W 1218 posted:

I'm taking the engine and tender over to CJack's today and we're going to add an electrocoupler and back up light to the tender. All of the electronics is there, they just didn't take advantage of them at the time. I remember when electrocouplers became available in 1997. I added a set to my Lionel GP Centennial engine after I got it. 

I'm also going to give the pullmor a few drops of oil while we're working on things. 

Reminds me of a Wabash 700 that sounded like a bucket of bolts until I oiled it. The owner said it was only run one Christmas. Must have been 24/7. After oiling it, I was much relieved.

Railsounds posted:

The whistle and other sounds are supposed to sound distressed, that's the point!

So why does the bell "ding" so good and not "dink" in any way?
BTW, the bell is an air-ringer.

Big Jim posted:

Railsounds posted:

The whistle and other sounds are supposed to sound distressed, that's the point!

So why does the bell "ding" so good and not "dink" in any way?
BTW, the bell is an air-ringer.

I had heard that the original bell on this locomotive was not working so they took one that was still working off of another locomotive that was about to be scrapped.

I have a set I bought a few years ago from a Forum member, Ed Howanice.

The sounds are remarkable.

The locomotive had a rough motor and the Forum member had Lionel send him a new motor.

I installed it and it ran really smooth and nice.

I did finally put in a Timko motor and I used that new motor for a rough running Rock Island Northern. Now it runs nice with that AC motor.

Back to the sounds, the whistle has a real haunting echo to it. I run this loco with the weathered set and also with a set of 8 aluminum N&W passenger cars. A beautiful train with great sounds. Rudy Trubitt outdid himself with this loco. When I have visitors it is one I like to run so they can hear it.

Thanks to CJack for working his magic with the electronics and soldering iron today. The '96 J has a new electrocoupler and LED backup light. Thanks to Big Jim for the advice on hooking up the LED. This forum is awesome. 

I put new grease in the worm gearbox and gave the engine a good oiling. She's running very nice. 

Eric's Train Videos always has a BFIMO - Best Feature In My Opinion: Plastic tubes running from the smoke unit down to the cylinders so that when the smoke unit is on, it looks like steam is coming out from the cylinders. 

Kevin,

I know some people disliked the 'steamchest smoke' feature, but I thought it was pretty cool. Sort of a primitive forerunner of the cylinder steam effect on Legacy locomotives. It seemed the feature has been kind of on and off since its debut in 1981. The last engines I think had it were the pre-LC+ baby Mikados, but I wouldn't mind if it popped up again on some medium priced engines as a bonus feature.

Mikado 4501 posted:

Kevin,

I know some people disliked the 'steamchest smoke' feature, but I thought it was pretty cool. Sort of a primitive forerunner of the cylinder steam effect on Legacy locomotives. It seemed the feature has been kind of on and off since its debut in 1981. The last engines I think had it were the pre-LC+ baby Mikados, but I wouldn't mind if it popped up again on some medium priced engines as a bonus feature.

The infamous Rock Island and the Lackawanna 4-8-4's had this steam chest smoke feature. As a matter of fact, my Lackawanna uses the "Class J" frame (the "J" class plate is on the side of the cylinder) and I assume the same running gear. This is all kind of odd because I have never heard of any of the N&W J's having the same running gear problems that the Rock & Lack' locos had! 

Big Jim posted:

The infamous Rock Island and the Lackawanna 4-8-4's had this steam chest smoke feature. As a matter of fact, my Lackawanna uses the "Class J" frame (the "J" class plate is on the side of the cylinder) and I assume the same running gear. This is all kind of odd because I have never heard of any of the N&W J's having the same running gear problems that the Rock & Lack' locos had! 

Lionel seemed to have a bad batch of armatures and other components during 1987-88 when doing those two engines, probably because some of the tooling for the engines were made overseas. They did correct these problems on the Southern Pacific GS-2 in 1991 and the Northern Pacific 2626 the following year.