Lionel 2004 vs 2013 Southern Crescent Heavyweights

The 2013 heavyweight sets (for the Crescent Ltd, Blue Comet, and Alton Ltd) were only catalog'd as a 4-pack to go with the respective locomotive.

No heavyweight 2-pack add-ons nor StationSounds diners were offered in 2013; but if you can grab them from the earlier production run in 2003/2004, i think the paint will match (although as you mentioned, the window tint is different).

As for StationSound diners... Lionel hasn't offered them for quite some time now -- in either heavyweight sets or aluminum sets... Although they did catalog a StationSounds offering for the upcoming Neil Young series Texas Special and Pennsylvania 15" passenger sets.  If they decide to offer them again for their scale line-up, they'll have close to a dozen new sets that need a StationSounds car!     Certainly big money.  

Of those nearly dozen aluminum sets catalog'd w/o StationSounds cars, Lionel seems to be having enough trouble though just delivering the cars.    They're undoubtedly encountering major issues with their overseas supplier of aluminum passenger sets, as a couple were catalog'd close to 3 years ago with delivery estimates still being pushed out as we speak.

David

Very nice purchase!  I have Legacy Southern Crescent Limited with 2013 passenger cars.  Unfortunately, as David said above Lionel did not make any add-on cars nor station sounds car for the 2013 set.  I thought about buying the add-on cars from 2004 too.  There was some talk on the forum that they might make station sounds car, but when it was not in the recent catalog I decided to purchase the station sounds car from 2004.  The green paint on the station sounds car matches perfectly the 2013 set of cars.  If I remember correctly, the black roof on the station sounds car has more of a glossy finish whereas on the 2013 set it has more of a dull finish, but not that very noticeable.  It is correct the trucks are more detailed on 2013 set of cars, but again to me it’s not noticeable.  The windows on 2013 set are tinted green.  I wanted to swap out the clear windows out of station sounds car to match the 2013 set windows. I like the green windows on the 2013 set. I tried to order the green windows from Lionel, but I was disappointed when they sent me the clear windows.  Here is my recent video of my Legacy Southern Crescent Limited with station sounds car.  The video shows some of my other new Southern rolling stock too, but you can see my Legacy Southern Crescent Limited at 4:24.   Ken

The window tint is way different: you can change the new (green) out if you wish to look more like the old.  The paint is a very close match - hard to see.  They ride about the same height, etc. 

All - thank you very much for taking a few minutes to reply to my inquiry. It is greatly appreciated.

David - thank you very much for the info.  I had seen kjs's video and had made a false assumption that Lionel had made the 2 car and Diner add ons for the 2013 set.  

KJS - that is a beautiful train you have there and your video along with a few others pushed me towards buying the Legacy PS4.  I appreciate you reposting it here and as best as I can tell, the paint schemes are close enough to look good from 10 ft away!

Lee - thank you to you too for the info.  I am now on the hunt for the 2013 - 4 car set and will probably swap out the windows to match the 2004 cars.  Also I'll be taking my PE this fall - I'll be needing much train therapy after all that studying!

A geez . . .  the PE exam.  I shudder at the thought.  I could not possibly pass that again.  It's been 40 years.  Good luck.  It's why we are young once, so we can do things like that.

M J Breen

Thanks for the comment on my video.  The Southern Crescent Limited is one of my favorite passenger car sets.  You are right if you are several feet way or even up close you can't really tell the difference between 2004 cars and 2013.  I now realize I should have made it more clear in my video that the stations sounds car was from 2004, but I did not think about it at the time.

Mario Trains, a forum sponsor, has the 4 car 2013 set listed for sale on his website.  There also a set listed on the bay right now.  I am always looking around at dealers sites for good buys Southern Engines and Rolling Stock...so I take note when I see something that might interest someone else on forum.  These are 2 listings I have seen recently for this set that are not full MSRP.  Hope this helps.  Good luck on your exam.  Ken

Ken,

Thanks for the heads up about Marios.  I work in that area a great deal and the closest hobby shop I had thought was in Hagerstown, MD (which is also a great store) so I look forward to visiting this shop now.  I believe I will pickup the four pack there, I already have the other 7 from 2004 so this will make a great train.  I'll be selling the observation car from the 2004 set if you know anyone interested.

I'm hoping to get some Atlas Trainman Baggage and RPO cars painted to match the Lionel cars too - if I can get someone to do the job I'll share some pics with you if you like. Thanks again Ken!

Another option is to track down a set of the K-Line Southern Crescent Limited set #K4486B. I don't have this set but the windows are clear with interior passenger details. There might be an issue with the paint matching up to the Lionel cars. 

It appears K-line used a darker green for the window ban paint.

These are some cars from the K-Line set.

Also depending on what section of the Limited's route you are replicating the consists normally ranged from six cars to ten.  The normal eight-car consist was a Club car, two 10 section,2 drawing rooms Pullmans, dining car, three 10 section, 2 drawing rooms Pullmans and the observation car.

M J Breen

Before selling your extra observation car…one thing you may consider is the drumhead on back of the observation car on the 2013 set does not light up where as on the 2004 set it does.  I wished the drumhead lit up on the 2013 set.  

I recently bought the K-line Southern Crescent Limited passenger car set as PRRronbh shows above.  The green is a darker green and does not match the Lionel cars.  However, I bought the set because I have always wanted them, but also to go along with my new MTH Premier Queen’s and Crescent Limited Southern engine.   The K-line set has 5 cars with a sleeper, coach, baggage, dinner and observation car.  MTH just re-released their Premier Crescent Limited passenger car set too with 5 cars and 2 add-on cars.  However, their set is standard set of coaches which they sell with most of their other road names.   

When you get all your cars, please show us some picture.  I would like to see it!  Did you buy the passenger cars from 2004 set with or without the engine?  For awhile I looked for the 4 cars from 2004 set without the engine, but had no luck in finding them.  Ken

Thanks everyone for the helpful tips - especially Sean, Ken and Lee!  I recently picked up the 2012 4 car set (Thanks to Forum Sponsor Mario's Trains of Winchester, VA!) and the Dining Car, 2 car Sleeper and the 4 cars from the 2004 set (I got a seller who was willing to break up a lightly used set).  I am up to 11 cars now, and just got 2 Atlas O baggage cars and an RPO to make my 14 car train.  I am on the hunt for a good custom painter to paint the Atlas O cars now - I will have them painted to match but will have the cars labeled "SOUTHERN" in lieu of Crescent Limited.

Here are a few shots from yesterday - the first is a mix of the 2004 and 2012 cars.  From top to bottom are the 2012 Observation, the 2004 observation, the 2004 combine and the 2012 Baggage.  There are differences with the ones I saw are the 2012 sets feature green tinted windows and have gold lettering, whereas the 2004 sets have clear windows and yellow lettering.  Also the finishes on the roof is slightly different.  Furthermore, the 2012 cars have window glazing in the vestibule doors while the 2004 cars do not.  

I plan on converting the cars to all clear colored windows, while I can live with the yellow vs gold lettering (its hardly noticeable with the right light) and the differences in roofs.  Additionally, I will be converting them all the LED lighting, enhancing the interior details and adding figures. 

Another project will be converting the 2004 Observation to another Pullman car.  I had planned to sell that car off but thanks to Ken's advice I took a good long look at comparing the 2004 vs 2012 observations.  Each car has its own perks - the 2004 car has a lighted drumhead while the 2012 does not (thank you for pointing that out Ken!).  I also like the gold trim handrails of the 2004 better than the 2012.  The 2012 has lighted marker lights though while the 2004 does not.

Thanks to Mr. Henry Ford and interchangeable parts - I am going to take the handrails and drumhead off the 2004 and put it on the 2012.  I purchased an extra vestibule off eBay, I will paint it to match, remove the observation platform from the 2004 car and install the vestibule - making it into another Pullman.  Believe it or not its only a 15-30 minute job as I did a trail run yesterday - just got to be careful with that lighted drumhead! I may try to get a felt overhang for the 2012 car too and replace the plastic lionel one.    

Lastly here are my pretty painted ladies - I like that the 1403 is slightly different from the 1393.  I'll be touching them up with the suggested tips - white stripe on the cowcatcher, red paint in the bell and under the headlight visor.  

Once the train comes together I will post many pics and videos - thanks everyone for the great advice!

Michael

Glad to have the information on comparison of the 2004 vs. 2013 cars. Very helpful. For those interested, Dan's Drumheads sells LED lighted O gauge drumheads for the Crescent, and many other passenger trains. ($10, I think.) I might add that to my 2013 set.

Also considering getting a sound diner, and perhaps changing the clear to tinted windows (using gels from theater lighting for the windows, perhaps) to match the other cars. I don't know if it would be advisable to try using a little dullcote on the diner roof to dull it down a little to match the others; might work but not sure about risking it.

Michael
Good idea on taking the handrails and drumhead off the 2004 and put it on the 2012 set.  If I find the passenger car set from 2004 one day separate from the engine, I might do the same.  I look forward to seeing your photos and video when you get your cars complete. Your Ps-4 engines look great together!

Ken

MJ

You might want to think about painting the roof on 1393 to Black or Green. I think Dewey will have the correct DuPont paint mask for 1393.  

Most of the color photo's I've seen have the roofs on the Ps-4 black but this could also be from the coal soot that settled on the roof of the cab. I know that Spencer Shop crews did paint the roofs on some of the Ps-4 Black or Green.

Michael thanks for posting this picture.  i was wondering if Lionel used the correct names on the cars.  I see they did pick at least two correct names William Moultrie and Joel Chandler Harris.  But Harris was used on one of the Crescent Limited's observation cars not a drawing room(coach).  The William Moultrie was in fact a Club car so they got that right.  The obs name looks like "Helen" not sure but in any case not a correct observation car name for the Limited. 

Ron

Sean - I thought about it this for while, and I think I am going to actually have the roof of the 2006 PS4 painted red to match the 2013 Legacy PS4.  Not sure what is prototypical   - there are many different paint schemes for the PS4, with each one offered by Lionel different. I'll go with the scheme I like which is the red roof (Southern 4501 had this during her Green Paint Scheme years).

Ron - the names on the 2012 Sleepers are P.G.T. Beauregard and Stonewall Jackson.  Only the 4 car set was offered in 2012, no addons.

The Name on the 2012 Observation is "R.E.Lee" which is an abbreviation for General Robert E. Lee.  I am actually converting the Joel Chandler Harris from an observation to another sleeper car.  I will keep the name though.   Its a pretty easy process from what I can tell - simply unscrew the platform etc and get a replacement vestibule, paint to match and screw it in.  I am sure the name is not accurate to the prototype but I'll enjoy it all the same.

I'll be posting pictures once I get everything going.  I believe I have a good custom painter lined up so hopefully things will be rolling this weekend.

The "Robert E. Lee" (no abbreviation) was one of the Limited's observation cars.  "P. G. Beauregard" and "Stonewall Jackson" were names of the (10 section, 2 Drawing Rooms) coaches also.

Ron