Lionel 6-11465 SP Daylight Cab Forward Photos

Speaking of dream job, if you ever need a mechanical engineer that specializes in design work and is experienced in electrical packaging, shoot me an email...

Sound is great!!!   Paint job It just absolutely will not work 

Hey all,

To answer a couple questions for those who asked them;

 

2 (TWO) 50mm Fat Boy speakers in the tender.

 

Overall wheelbase is 29.5" (Measured from the rear tender wheel to the front wheel of the pilot truck with the drawbar properly connected, on a straightaway)

 

Same identical sound set in all the other Cab Forwards, the sounds are not "SP Daylight specific", the sounds heard in the video match that of the other road numbers as well.

 

Open House in NC; How about let us get everything down here first, open up and get moving before we look that far into the future. I can tell you it will likely not be in August! It is hotter than a....... (you do the math) in August in Concord!

 

That is what I can tell you with certainty!

 

If you could put in a plea for aluminum daylight passenger cars that would be much appreciated. 

How about the End of October before your trip to China for Big Boy Turkey Stuffin?

 

I know normally in Nov, but figured it just wouldn't be worth the trip with Mikado there!

Mike,

 

Do you happen to have any recorded videos or sounds of the whistle being blown without the quilling?  I'm curious to hear how the whistle sounds without that being done.  Does it still vary in pitch somewhat (automatic quilling) like the 2005 version did, or is it now virtually "flat" like the prototype?

 

On Legacy steam engines including this one, does the shutdown sequence still use the radio dispatch "quittin' time" chatter or is this removed?  As I've alluded to earlier, the dispatch radio chatter is annoying and unrealistic to me so I don't use it but for earlier pre-Legacy steam engines the only way to avoid the radio dispatch during the shutdown sequence is to put a battery in the tender and kill the track power and then it would just do the blowdown effects.  Was wondering if this is still the case with Legacy engines or not since I don't own any yet.

No, not conventional, I have TMCC & DCS, don't have Legacy yet.

The numeric 5 key on CAB1/CAB1L will always play the shutdown dialog. On CAB2, as Marty said, you can control wether shutdown dialog plays. To skip the dialog, tap the shutdown button. To include the dialog, press and hold the shutdown button.

 

regarding the question: "I'm curious to hear how the whistle sounds without that being done.  Does it still vary in pitch somewhat (automatic quilling) like the 2005 version did, or is it now virtually "flat" like the prototype?"

 

With a LEGACY remote or CAB-1L in quilling mode, your finger pressure or lever position will determine if there's any pitch variation. On a CAB1 and in conventional mode, you'll hear a mix of "medium" and "high" intensity whistle blows.

 

Rudy

Thanks for the replies Rudy.

 

So in essence from what you say based on intesity and pitch,  it still basically "quills" even when not in quilling mode from how I read that.  If that's true I'm pretty disappointed, especially in light of Mike's earlier reply of the research that is being boasted that goes into products like these.  I would have hoped that Lionel would have made the Cab Forward whistle sound match the prototype, which in this case would be no quilling whatsoever.  While I'm happy that they finally corrected the compressor sounds, the whistle is, well, for a scale model where the original release sounds were wrong, I had higher expectations for Lionel to do it justice and do it right the second time around.

 

I suppose I'm happy for those that are happy with what they've heard, but as a major SP and cab forward fan I'm not, sorry to say.  I guess to help put it in perspective from my point of view, it would be the audio equivalent to releasing all Pennsylvania scale steam locomotives with standard instead of Belpaire fireboxes.

In spite of this wonderful locomotive, would you say it is safe to say that Mr. John Korling will not be buying this ?

 

Guys it is a hobby, either you like it or you don't. Please don't continue to run this down while the majority of the folks on here like it.

 

Give it a rest.

Correct. The SP Cab Forwards, as well as the GS-4 Daylights, have had a small brass lever for the Engineer which activated a large air cylinder mounted on the base of the whistle. When the Engineer pushed down on the brass lever, full main reservoir air pressure activated the air cylinder at the whistle, which then opened the steam supply to the whistle, at full boiler pressure. Thus the steam whistle was either "on" or "off", just like the large air horn.

I don't understand John Knorling's gripe here with Legacy technology, the Daylight AC-12, and gosh, for Lionel as a company.  It's interesting that you state that you do NOT own any Legacy and yet you are complaining directly to Mike Reagan regarding a Legacy quilling issue???  Also, you stated "they finally corrected the compressor sound."  Okay, I am not sure what your expectations are for Legacy since it came out way back in  2008 and what it is you are waiting for before investing in the techlogy, but if you haven't bought a Legacy engine by now, honestly, I don't think you intend to buy it at all unless you are waiting for that "perfect" engine from Lionel, aim I right?  I am sorry but your constant complaints and rivet counting and finally the raining on other peoples parade (especially on Mike Reagan's passionate AC-12 thread) is downright annoying.   He took the time to post pictures and after hours filming and even after all that, there is one bad apple among an orchard of happy and content buyers.   I don't think I would have been as agitated had you actually owned a Legacy product, but even now I am doubting if you even own any Lionel products at all.  C'mon, man, it's obvious you don't like Lionel and love to find whatever fault you can to justify staying away from them, but please don't ruin it for other hobbyist here.    

Ansonn,

I could not agree more.  I understand that some folks are just never going to be happy, and that is certainly their prerogative.  What I don't understand is why these folks seem so intent on telling everyone why they are unhappy.  If you can't say something nice......then please stop annoying the rest us.

AMEN!!!

 

FREDSTRAINS

The constant carping of a few about virtually non-existent faults in a toy train that runs on three rails can leave a bad taste. 

 

But.

 

Time to run some trains and forget about them.  

Marty,

You make a valid point.  Perhaps Lionel changed when the the air compressor sounds come on and off as a result of customer feedback.  It comes down to presentation.  If one's comments are positive and constructive they leave a better impression.  If the comments come across as incessant whining/complaining then I find them annoying and devalue them.  I am pretty sure Mike and his team are proud of the work they have done and proud of the engine they are bringing to market.  Would anyone here enjoy having their efforts needled and gnit-picked? 

 

I am not going to touch rthomps comment about these things being toy trains (which I totally agree with).  That would only take this thread further off topic. 

Ansonn,

 

It clearly appears to me that you haven't read all of my previous posts on this thread, or if you did, that you skimmed over them as some of your conslusions are way off the mark.

 

First off, you engaged in a couple of logical fallacies, first one:

 

1) Expressing disappointment in Lionel's latest release of their scale cab-forward's sound sets = I don't like Lionel. 

 

Wrong.  I do like Lionel.  I've cut my teeth on Lionel trains when I was growing up.  I have several of their engines in my roster, including conventional and TMCC, including the 2005 release of this same locomotive in question. 

 

 

2) Don't have Legacy = No position to state expectations on sound accuracy.

 

Wrong.  While I don't have Legacy (yet) I have had exposure to Legacy engines, and have heard their sounds and am aware most of their features, including the quilling whistle.  What I don't have is extensive exposure to Legacy steam engines.  Regardless, I don't need to own or operate Legacy engines to know that Lionel's whistle is wrong on their scale cab forward.

 

3) Raining on other peoples [sic] parade = Deliberate intention on my part.

 

Wrong.  If you noticed, I did thank Mike for posting the video and some of the replies and updates he's given.  I also gave a compliment on the fact they corrected the compressor sounds this time around.  Having said all that, while I own and enjoy Lionel products, I'm also not a foaming, died-in-the-wool fanboy loyalist either.  So I tend to be more objective than those that are when it comes to announcements and reviews of products from the  manufacturers, and I do not shy away from pointing out discrepancies or flaws that I perceive in a product, especially if it's one that I have a particular interest in, like the cab forward in this case.

 

My expectations?  Well, again I think I made that pretty clear in my prior posts if you actually read them, but since it's clear you overlooked a good share of what I posted, I'll summarize (again):

 

Lionel's 2005 version of the cab forward does not have the correct whistle, compressor sounds are right but they programmed it so that you only hear it when the engine is idle, and of course at the time it also had only 2 chuffs per revolution and the in and out of sync effects were not convincing.

 

- Accurate sound effects for the Cab Forward have existed for a long time and were (and still are) easy to research. 

 

- As far back as the early 1990s (way before Lionel even came out with a cab forward model) QSI offered 100% accurate Cab Forward effects that were available as aftermarket sound upgrade kits in addition to MTH's earlier ProtoSound 1.0 equipped cab forward models. 

 

- MTH also has 100% correct cab forward sound files in their PS2/PS3 sound files for those models released over the past decade and a half.

 

- 100% accurate cab forward sound files have been marketed in the smaller scales by companies such as SoundTraxx.

 

With all that in mind, and the fact that I've said I am a major SP and cab forward fan, I had what I feel are very reasonable expectations that Lionel's latest model would also 100% nail it this time around and if it were I would have preordered one (not the fantasy Daylight version) without hesitation.  The compressor sounds may have been corrected but hearing the results of the inaccurate whistle I'm having pause.  I might still buy one, but if I do, I'd more than likely convert it to PS2 so that I not only have a stunning-looking model, it would also have the sounds to match it.  You could argue that I've essentially solved the problem with that approach but to be honest I'd prefer not to invest in the additional time & money doing so, especially considering how expensive the locomotive already is.

 

I'm sorry if I didn't walk lock-step with the Hoo-Rah Henry's on this thread such as yourself and some others and I'm also sorry if you guys are so hyper-sensitive that you take those comments so personally.  I would think that everyone would be open enough to be able to take the minuses as well as the pluses.  I also thought I was critiquing an O gauge locomotive, not someone's mother. 

"to take the minuses as well as the pluses"

 

You don't have to worry about this John, I think you have mastered this art form. Notice what comes first, minuses.

I know that the vast majority of you folks don't care, but I agree with Mr. Korling. Yes, it would certainly be nice to get the sound package as correct as possible, even though it is a "fantasy paint scheme". But what you all seem to miss is, wouldn't the "correct" scale versions of the SP cab forward also benefit from having the most correct, prototypical sound package?

Hmmm,

 

I saw the video and decided to order a...  Pilot model. 

Mike, will the new Cab Forward be able to squeeze through O-60 or O-63 curves?  Please reply soon as I must preorder tonight!

The catalog says minimum 072, and it's the same model as the TMCC version, so I would say definitely NO, but then again, I'm not Mike

 

This one's for Mike R - have the traction tire drivers been moved from behind the valve gear on both engines (driver sets)? Replacing traction tires on cab forwards - both Lionel and MTH - is an incredible hassle.   Phil

 

Chill yourself out Fred.  Go hit some bongos or put some smooth jazz on or you're going to give yourself a coronary.

 

What does 3-rail or 2-rail have to do with it?  We're not talking about some postwar Scout Engine or a Spongebob Squarepants Docksider, this is a full O scale model, one that happens to operate on 3-rail track, but it's still SCALE.  Expectations are a little different here.

 

That is very true, and would be nice if they did change the location of the traction tires.  I just used Bullfrog Snot on my Lionel model to avoid that hassle even though I'd rather just use the tires.

Just preordered from Charles Ro.  Can't wait!

 

The initial post in this threads asks "Let us know what you think."

 

It appears to me that some here, including Mr. Korling, are doing just that. It doesn't ask for only positive responses. Mr. Korling asked some good and interesting questions and got some good responses to his questions for discussion.

 

I think there will be allot of hangovers down the road by people purchasing this engine on a whim.

I guess I better line up with Chris.  Silencing folks you don't agree with may not be the best idea - 

On the hangover - a quick pass with some Rustoleum gloss black, some of my SP decals, and a coat of Dullcote will cure it faster than tomato juice.

 

Hit it with #400 wet sandpaper first, so those stripes do not show through the black.

The sentiment: "I don't like what you're saying, so stop saying it" does not make me think of America. Eastern Ukraine, maybe, or some flea-bitten pest-hole with a name beginning with "People's Republic of..." - but not the country I served and represented overseas for 25 years.

 

Those who expressed that sentiment toward John Korling - you know who you are.

Looks like John K. Has really hit some raw nerves here. IMO he has asked allot of questions that I was thinking about. 

 

I see no reason to be so critical about the questions he has asked. If you don't like it just skip his questions or answers. 

 

Time for some of you guys to take a break away from the forum. 

 

When I spend $1200 or so for a engine I want to know if certain things are right. I know there is some things that can't be done in the 3 rail side of our hobby. but I do like it to be the best in can be. 

 

it looks like Lionel has done a great job on the new cab forward. For those that have ordered it, have fun and enjoy. 

I think it will be another great Lionel engine.

Sure its a fantasy paint scheme, and maybe the sounds are not perfect.

Just get over it.

I am really looking forward to getting it.

 

Rod

This thread will be much better going forward if John and Neil both refrain from posting any further in it.

 

Take the hint, fellas. This ain't MTJ.  

For me, a steamer with a quillable whistle offers a LOT more fun and play value than one that does not.

 

 

I am hoping this version of the AC-12 will use slightly updated tooling to hopefully have the switches (run, program, smoke, etc.) located at the top for easy access.  

       
       
In the past, this has typically happened when steamers have been re-tooled for whistle-steam.  Lionel had the unfinished pilot model at York, so they should already be able to give you a firm answer.

David

"For me, a steamer with a quillable whistle offers a LOT more fun and play value than one that does not."

 

Very well said Paul. When we all got to listen to Mike Reagan's video, I don't know how anyone wouldn't be impressed. This is a real keeper.

FWIW I saw the pilot version running at York. It looks and sounds great, I instantly decided to order it

For those who don't want quilling, run the engine in legacy using a CAB-1L and leave the quilling feature off, which you can do with a CAB-1L.