Lionel 6-11465 SP Daylight Cab Forward Photos

That was already brought up earlier in the thread.  Per Rudy from Lionel:

"With a LEGACY remote or CAB-1L in quilling mode, your finger pressure or lever position will determine if there's any pitch variation. On a CAB1 and in conventional mode, you'll hear a mix of "medium" and "high" intensity whistle blows."

Based on that answer it sounds to me that there's still a quilling effect that happens even when you're not in "quilling mode," but there hasn't been clarification on that.  If Lionel posts a separate video to demonstrate the whistle sans quilling mode that would probably help clarify it.

I'll try and clarify, so bear with me a moment.

Going back to Railsounds 2 or 2.5, Lionel locomotives have featured variety in whistle intensity. I think the original marketing term used was "multi-whistle," I'll use that  in this post. Multi-Whistle gave each locomotive a louder and softer whistle. It worked the same in conventional transformer mode, or with an original CAB1. When stopped or  moving slowly, you usually heard a softer whistle.  When moving faster, you usually heard a louder whistle. This type of behavior persists to this day on Legacy locomotives. 

With the introduction of CAB2 aka the LEGACY 990 command control set, the quilling whistle slider was added. We began shipping locomotives that responded to this new LEGACY command. When using the quilling whistle, there is no random element to the sustained intensity of each whistle blow--it is operator controlled. Quilling lets you continuously vary the intensity of the whistle within a single blow, or play a constant, sustained blow at the intensity of your choice.

However, Legacy locomotives must still work in conventional mode or with original CAB1 remotes, so they ALSO respond to an old-style horn command (or DC track-offset) with the original Multi-horn behavior.

Finally, to the question at hand. If one wanted to restrict the sound of a whistle to play at only a single intensity, you MUST use a CAB2 or CAB1L, with the quilling feature ON. I know this sounds counter-intuitive. But with the quilling on, YOU (the operator) are in complete control of the sound produced by the loco. If you don't want to hear anything but the full "loud whistle", you can do that--just be sure you always apply the full pull on the CAB2 whistle slider, or a hard press on a CAB-1L in quilling mode.

As Paul said in a earlier comment, "For me, a steamer with a quillable whistle offers a LOT more fun and play value than one that does not." This is our policy. Many modern diesel horns are button-operated in the cab and cannot be quilled in the real world. But we always include variety in the whistle intensity to add interest and play value. And because the quilling whistle feature puts the control of the sound entirely in the operators hands, those who prefer the prototypical behavior of a single-intensity whistle have that option available to them in the LEGACY command environment.

Thanks a bunch for the response and clarification Rudy.

So it does sound like the Cab Forward's whistle can in fact be operated so that there's no variation in pitch from what you are saying.  If so that's great to hear.

Contrary to what some were obviously thinking, I actually have no issues whatsoever with the concept of exorcizing some creative licensing with the sound effects to add more "play value" as you put it.  My only concern and wish was that the whistle sound can be operated realistically based on the prototype in addition to having that type of play-value feature.  So from what you're saying it does sound like it's feasible; in my case I've still been using TMCC but I have been amongst those that were waiting for the latest shipment of Legacy to come in.

So do you think I can persuade you or Mike to post a video demoing the whistle as it would actually sound on the prototype?

Thanks again Rudy for addressing and clarifying my concerns. 

If Mike or anyone else doesn't post a video, I can show the same effect using one of my steamers when I get home later today.

First I don't know how I missed this thread for so long, but a big thank you to Mike Reagan for posting the pictures, adding the excellent video, and for answering our questions.  It is easy to see why Lionel seems to be enjoying a lot success lately.  When you add great products, good service, and a staff that is clearly trying to please their customers, it should no surprise to see them do well.

But I am very dismayed that honest concerns are apparently no longer welcome on this forum.  I did not take John's comments to be anything other than the concerns of a big fan of this particular engine and railroad.  Some of the criticisms of his comments were totally inappropriate in my opinion.  Those people should find another venue to vent their negative comments and attacks.

Art  

I think Lionel has done an awesome job on this engine, period.  I think they will and should sell all they produce.   

Here's a video showing JUST the full-intensity whistle using a CAB2 remote. This is done by being sure to pull the whistle slider down all the way, each and every time. If the whistle slider was not fully activated, you'd hear different intensity whistle blows, varying with the distance the remote's whistle lever was moved.

RUDY,

Thanks so much, seeing is believing!! I am not a "RIVET COUNTER", so the "Quillable  Whistle" feature is a PLUS for me!!! 

Fredstrains (Fred) 

thanks Rudy. 

Thanks Rudy. Sure sounds fabulous either as quillable or not. This hopefully will satisfy everyone who has posted questions in terms of sound accuracy and it should end the what if's.

For all of us who actually ordered this fabulous engine, thank you Mike for starting this thread, and Rudy for clarifying all of the sound issues. Great job!!!!!! We look forward to receiving it in the near future.

Thanks a bunch for making & posting that video Rudy, it's greatly appreciated and certainly reflects a willingness to go the extra mile there at Lionel.

That video definitely answers the question, on how to blow the whistle without variations in pitch as the prototype was, and the sounds certainly seems close enough to be convincing; Convincing enough where conversion to PS2 to get the right overall sounds will be unnecessary. 

Right now I'm considering reserving #4286 with the accurate paint scheme with one of my dealers, but there is one last question which I don't recall ever being addressed:  Are you offering these with both the pre- and postwar tender lettering, or just postwar like the 2005 release & how #4294 is preserved at the Sacramento Railroad Museum?

Prewar used "Southern Pacific Lines" while postwar was just "Southern Pacific."  I'm more interested in the postwar paint scheme since that covers a longer service period for the AC-12 class cab forwards.

I have been trying to find out the same thing since they were first offered. It would be good to know regardless if you prefer the early or late lettering. Isn't 4286 one of the ones with no image available or, if you see one, its numbered 4294? I would expect 4294 to be lettered in the late scheme.

If you don't get an answer and do order 4286 and it happens to be in the early scheme I will take it. I am not going to pre order unless I know for sure and so far I have not been able to get an answer despite asking 4 different people at Lionel.

Pete

However they paint them, it is very easy to fix:

Easy enough to apply a decal. Not so easy to match the finish of pad printing.

BTDT.

Pete

As usual, bob2 forgets that this is the 3-Rail (toy) Train Forum, and the vast majority of the posters here expect the product to be the "way they want it" right out of the box!

Hot, having well over 100 Brass SP prototype steam engines I am quite familiar with painting and decaling which I have done myself for over 50 years.

If I recall you have to send yours out.

Save me the lectures.

Pete

OK, so maybe there are, what,,,,,five, six, maybe ten folks out of a thousand or more, on this forum that actually MODEL?

Wow talk about insulting a whole forum with one post. 

LOL!

Well, we are really getting off topic here but the idea that only a few that frequent this forum know how to model is an illusion of a few on the 3RS forum. I would say the majority here have been in the hobby long enough to have excellent skills with more than a few who rank with the best out there. You have them in your club as I do in mine.

Pete

My main interest is prewar but I love the SP.  The colors of most of my trains are peacock, orange, red, Mohave and apple green.  My rail crossings have giant men leaping out of gatehouses to wave lights and bells that are probably 10 scale feet in diameter.  Compared to what I have, this is prototypical!      

I wonder if Lionel is still "pad printing".

I created these decals for the Stevenson Mikes and switchers, but they work on any SP steam, with a few re-arrangements of cab numbers.  An ancillary set has the very large tender decals and some AC cab data.

Decalling is not really heavy duty modeling - with care, it can be done with spray cans and some judicious masking.  If you have the skill to put a model on the track, you have the skill to decal.  It can be fun - consequences of making a mistake are not earth- shattering, and proper weathering or clear coating make them look like lithography.

They will never look like pad-printing - they are too sharp.

Die cast steam locomotives, like life, are compromises. Rarely, if ever, is something exactly the way the true experts want it. My teapot, BTW, is a recreation of a 16th century Samurai teapot made in Ido by a master cooper. When the temperature of the water steeping reaches exactly 212 degrees it is supposed to produce a whistle that sounds like the shriek of a hawk. 

A friend of ours, Masahiro Tanaka, an expert on Samurai teapots, commented that the whistle was slightly off in pitch and refused to drink the tea. He said that if the pitch of the hawk sound was off, the tea would result in a sour taste.

I asked him if he would join this forum where, obviously, sour tastes fit right in.

Now that we're talking about tea, I feel able to chime in.

First, sorry about all the unpleasantness my ancestors caused that got the citizens of Boston so upset.

Second, now that I've learned that the new cab-forward comes with a tea-making gizmo, I'll be ordering one asap and I won't even complain if it makes Earl Grey instead of English Breakfast!

Eliot:

It must have been a day when he was scheduled to pitch and he did not want to chance an upset stomach. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=PLEF3ED79E5A463E96&v=n_ErZ5SgkVw     

Was considering buying this engine. I have the rs5 version. The most distinctive feature of the cab forwards was there air pumps. These were mounted on the smoke box front and exhausted through small pipes directly to the atmosphere, This was unlike conventional locomotives, which exhausted through the stack or other appliance. The sound was  so distinctive one could very easily tell the difference between cab forwards and other locomotives. The whistle and air horn were not playable as stated by others. Listening to the video it appears Lionel did not get the pumps right or the correct tone of and SP whistle. It's a beautiful engine and I'm sure most will be happy with it, but I'm  a "rivet counter" and glad I passed on this one. Hope they pay closer attention to the Big Boy.

                                                                                                      JG

Brian,

You are exactly right.

I don't know about some of that; the compressor sound effects on the Legacy version sound right to me, including them being heard while the locomotive is running in their earlier demo video.  Might be times where there's too much delay in between blow offs and maybe the overall sound of the compressors aren't quite as prominent as they should be, but not overly objectionable so, IMHO. 

Although still not quite on the mark compared to MTH and Tsunami's sound effects, the pitch on the Legacy version cab forward whistle sounds more on the mark (when not quilling with the CAB-2 on Rudy's recent demo video above) compared to their RS5 version from 2005.

First Mike, then Jon, and now Rudy. Nothing beats the direct input from the "guys" at Lionel regarding products. 

 Setting the standard in parts, service, and now customer relations as well. Keep up the good work!

Ditto what RickO said. And while John was persistent, it paid off. 

And what exactly is this thing that paid off?  Last I checked, it's still the same AC-12 that was announced and spec'd out by Mike Reagan.  I don't think the sound changed either.

"OK, so maybe there are, what,,,,,five, six, maybe ten folks out of a thousand or more, on this forum that"....may I add, could maybe benefit from a refresher course in How to Win Friends and Influence people? 

If you don’t like the Whistle on the SP Daylight Cab Forward …try this!



K.C.

Gotta get the specific one or its still the wrong tone. Heres one to make the 844 whistle sound:

Let me ask a question out of total ignorance.  If one ran one of these legacy locomotives using DCS to control the TMCC through a first generation TMCC base,  what features would be controlled?

Whistle quill?

Whistle, no quill?

Smoke synched with drivers?

Smoke synched with whistle?

To expand a little on what Marty said, you basically control all the engine features that you would be able to control with a Cab1 except you use the DCS handheld. 

This includes all the features and controls you normally use.

i run my Legacy engines frequently using DCS. 

Rod

Mike:

This is one fine looking model.  I enjoy this "fantasy" paint scheme as much as I enjoyed MTH's Great Northern Z-6 painted in the green boiler scheme, which, Great Northern never did, but it looked outstanding anyway.  This bad boy is in the same category, and if I modeled SP, I'd be buying one.

Regards,

GNNPNUT