Lionel and MTH

Your late to the party. This "arrangement" is not new and applies only to Lionel Corporation Tinplate, which is, and has been being made by MTH, with MTH sound and control. For all intensive purposes, its really MTH stuff with the "Lionel" name on it.

The merger/sharing ubruptly ends there.

The MTH manufactured Lionel branded tinplate can be ordered, obviously, from MTH.  I doubt you can order the Vision Line Big Boy from MTH.

Lionel made a decision some years back, likely related to the high costs of new tooling, and the very low volume of tinplate sales, to license their name so that MTH could use it, and hopefully spur their sales of tinplate, with Lionel taking their cut.  I'd guess the idea was that these iconic toys would sell better with the Lionel name on them than with the MTH name, particularly for the reproductions. The plan was perhaps that MTH sales would increase, and Lionel would make some money with essentially no effort/expense.

Whether that has worked out as hoped,  or not, who knows?  But the licensing agreement has now been renewed once, so both wish to continue with this arrangement after a few years of trying it out in the marketplace.  On the other hand, MTH started selling tinplate on their website direct, something that does not speak to resoundingly successful dealer network sales of these niche products.  One way or the other, we're lucky that any tinplate is being made, much less the variety offered by MTH, which is substantially greater than anything available in new product in the last 60+ years.

Just late.......not to say it could never happen. In the plastic model field mortal enemies of the 1960's are now one company!!!

MTH has been making Lionel tinplate since the 1980's. Mike Wolf started his career in toy trains working with Jerry Williams on Williams reproductions, and when he was a big Lionel distributor in the 80's and 90's he made the Lionel Classics line under contract to Lionel. Then there was the famous divorce. Mike Wolf, who is a huge tinplate fan, continued to build repro Lionel under the MTH name, and Lionel occasionally made some tinplate under its own name (the Standard Gauge Hiawatha and Commodore Vanderbilt, the tinplate Lionel factory, some streetcars, and a few 0 gauge sets). A few years ago Lionel and MTH made peace and agreed that MTH would manufacture and sell repro Lionel tinplate under the Lionel name. It's really a licensing deal; as far as I know Lionel has nothing to do with the production or marketing of current Lionel tinplate. Mike Wolf owns the tooling, some of which is the original Williams stuff going back to whenever. 

I wouldn't say Lionel and MTH made peace, more like looked past or set aside.

They probably have come to realize that a healthy competitor often is a good thing.  Having just one dominant player tends to chock off a market and its potential growth, whether its toy trains, guns, cars, or quality local restaurants.  MTH is the best thing that ever happened to MTH and they quite literally would not be here were Lionel not around.

Landsteiner and Southwest Hiawatha both have excellent posts on the situation with Lionel Corporation Tinplate. Nicely written and accurately done both of you, and very helpful for Forumites interested in the topic. 

Congratulations!

Ed Boyle

Thanks for these replies.  I was just curious if this agreement was a prelude to MTH at some point buying out Lionel or just building all of Lionels stuff.  I had followed the Lionel/MTH lawsuit postings by Locolawyer and the forum comments, but have since lost track of what was happening, thus the mailbox catalog piqued my interest and wondering what the latest Lionel/MTH dance was.

In the past two or three years I found myself admiring the various attractively colorful tinplate offerings to the point of adjusting my buying to include some O gauge tinplate.  The look of these tinplate engines and cars obviously do not have the prototypical details found on the scale or near scale  high-rail offerings, but IMO that is not their purpose.  Rather the modern tinplate train provides an instant rewind to the early days of the hobby and some nostalgia of the shiny brightly colored models that clickety clack over tubular track without the effort and expense of searching for a working original model.

No matter the real or perceived reasons behind the origins or details of the MTH and Lionel current Lionel Corporate Tinplate business relationship, I'm happy that both companies found some common ground.  I hope that both MTH and Lionel view this product line as a win:win for each company as well as a win to those hobbyists that discover this beautifully unique gem.

Well, the current environment of the nation is that we are moving toward being a plutocracy, with the top 1% now owning as much as the bottom 50% of all Americans (the 400 richest Americans currently have assets of $1.7 trillion!). As the middle class struggles to hang on, multimillionaires are exploding. So the status quo at Lionel could change quickly if some zillionaire - and there now are a lot of them - decides on a lark that he'd like to fool around with owning Lionel trains. 

Haven't heard that speculation for years. My understanding is that such a thing is about as far as it could be from anyone's mind, and the circumstances that could facilitate that aren't anywhere on the most distant or imaginative horizon. If anything, it seems Lionel is more dominant now than ever. Could as well be "MTH, a subsidiary of Lionel."

I'm an O-scale/hi-railer. Yet I just got, yesterday, from Ready-to-Roll in Miami, a gray

Lionel/MTH 9E Standard Gauge electric, because it's just totally suave. I even got the Traditional version rather than the Protosound item, as it will spend most, perhaps all, of its life on a shelf. I must have some track around here somewhere...I do have a Standard 385 steamer on the mantle...

Just FYI.

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breezinup -  Your comments about the US plutocracy system are right on, brother.