Unless the price isn't right, I wouldn't shy away from the TMCC EM-1. The slip issue is pretty trivial to fix:

@Norm Charbonneau posted:

Unless the price isn't right, I wouldn't shy away from the TMCC EM-1. The slip issue is pretty trivial to fix:

Thank you Norm for responding.  I came across 2 in the tri-state area, one was repaired and the other one hasn't but I'm sure it's a matter of time before it fails.  Your knowledge of this problem and it's remedy makes me feel better should I decided to get one.  If there's ANYONE I trust with things like this, that would be YOU...and to add to that, your ability to weather things is astonishing!! 

As Norm says, the drive shaft coupler fix is really trivial. ….I find all of the early 2000’s era TMCC stuff to be built like tanks. The early Odessy can go flaky on some, but even that isn’t life altering,…….as Norm says again, if the price is right, with some upgrades, and the driveshaft fix, you’d still be less then what a Legacy model would be ….

Pat

I'd say go with the 2001 run.

Aside from the shaft issue, you can often find them under $700 in today's market, and I personally prefer the Pittman motor, easy to maintain construction, and RailSounds 4 chip on this early model. Dare I say, I prefer the sounds on this to its LEGACY counterpart.

Thank you all for your advice. I feel so much better and may just pull the trigger on 1.

@harmonyards posted:

As Norm says, the drive shaft coupler fix is really trivial. ….I find all of the early 2000’s era TMCC stuff to be built like tanks. The early Odessy can go flaky on some, but even that isn’t life altering,…….as Norm says again, if the price is right, with some upgrades, and the driveshaft fix, you’d still be less then what a Legacy model would be ….

Pat

The one I'm considering has already been repaired; I trust it won't need to be addressed again.  What do you mean about the Odessey system and what upgrades do you recommend Pat? 

@RailFan820 posted:

The one I'm considering has already been repaired; I trust it won't need to be addressed again.  What do you mean about the Odessey system and what upgrades do you recommend Pat?

If the Oddesy cruise system fails, which can either live forever, or fail, there’s an upgrade that can be done that’s even nicer than the older Oddesy system…..There are still some Oddesy parts available to repair the stock system, but if it fails, or you want to do a preemptive strike, you can upgrade the system with ERR parts that should be back in stock really soon,…..If I may make a suggestion, and again, if the price is right, and you’re not comfortable opening your own locomotives, Id get in touch with one of the heavy guns on our forum, specifically, Alex M. ….I’d send the engine first to him (straight from your buyer)  and have him do a full service on the engine, at that point, he’d make the inspection of the Oddesy system, and make any recommendations if it needs an upgrade or not, …….if it does, this is his cup of tea, as upgrades are his middle name……so you’d be at the right place,…..then, when the engine comes to you, out of the box it comes, and on your pike with smiles for miles…..Alex has a stellar reputation, ….he’s definitely a big gun repair & upgrade guy….

Pat

I'll keep that in mind Pat should I decide to move forward; is Alex on the forum?

@RailFan820 posted:

I'll keep that in mind Pat should I decide to move forward; is Alex on the forum?

Yes sir he is, …..let’s toss up the bat signal, …calling @Alex M !

Pat

@Mikado 4501 posted:

I'd say go with the 2001 run.

Aside from the shaft issue, you can often find them under $700 in today's market, and I personally prefer the Pittman motor, easy to maintain construction, and RailSounds 4 chip on this early model. Dare I say, I prefer the sounds on this to its LEGACY counterpart.

You dare say and are correct. I have the last NYC mikado made in the USA with TMCC. The sound is far superior I feel to anything that has come after, the two chuffs stays clear and crisp as the RPMs ramp up; simulated wheel slip it does not get better.

The earlier EM-1 has the best whistle of every steam engine I own  I have the Legacy version EM-1 also   Great runner but the sounds are disappointing   Alex did the drive shaft upgrade on my older one   Its an easy fix   I think I have an extra coupling somewhere I have to look

Of course, Pat could put a real drive shaft into that EM-1.

Here's the one he put into my C&O Yellowbelly when he did it's upgrade to the Pittman from the old Pulmore.

Look at that, real universal joints and all metal as well!   The drive train runs butter-smooth with that linkage.

I have the original TMCC unit and love it. I did however install a TAS EOB drop in board to eliminate the odyssey lurch and add 4 chuff ability. Today though, if I had the money I would love to buy the Legacy model.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Of course, Pat could put a real drive shaft into that EM-1.

Here's the one he put into my C&O Yellowbelly when he did it's upgrade to the Pittman from the old Pulmore.

Look at that, real universal joints and all metal as well!   The drive train runs butter-smooth with that linkage.

John, it's funny you brought this engine up because I'm bringing it to my local club to run tonight.  What were the circumstances surrounding the motor upgrade?  I'm curious if it's something I should do as well; I only have it pulling the Lionel matching aluminum cars.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Of course, Pat could put a real drive shaft into that EM-1.

Here's the one he put into my C&O Yellowbelly when he did it's upgrade to the Pittman from the old Pulmore.

Look at that, real universal joints and all metal as well!   The drive train runs butter-smooth with that linkage.

I does really make you wonder why manufacturers continue to use plastic drive components in $1200-$2200 locomotives.  All metal driveshafts with U joints from the RC Car hobby are $12, and in quantity, Lionel could get them for 1/2 or less.  Is it penny pinching, or built-in obsolescence?

Bob

@RailFan820 posted:

John, it's funny you brought this engine up because I'm bringing it to my local club to run tonight.  What were the circumstances surrounding the motor upgrade?  I'm curious if it's something I should do as well; I only have it pulling the Lionel matching aluminum cars.

Mine has cruise control, full-feature fan driven smoke, Rule-17 headlight, automatic cab light, ground lights, and an IR tether.  Mine is pulling the MTH Premier C&O cars.

John's C&O Yellowbelly Hudson Upgrades

The cab looks a big nicer than the one in the stock Lionel offering as well.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Mine has cruise control, full-feature fan driven smoke, Rule-17 headlight, automatic cab light, ground lights, and an IR tether.  Mine is pulling the MTH Premier C&O cars.

John's C&O Yellowbelly Hudson Upgrades

The cab looks a big nicer than the one in the stock Lionel offering as well.

WOW that looks incredible, especially the cab interior and ground lighting.  What specific part did you use for the interior detail and can it be installed?  I must go on to say John that your attention to detail when upgrading is beyond.  I really liked your upgrades to the Phantom I.  I would love to do that to mine as well as the other 3 Phantoms; I have all 4.

@RailFan820 posted:

WOW that looks incredible, especially the cab interior and ground lighting.  What specific part did you use for the interior detail and can it be installed?  I must go on to say John that your attention to detail when upgrading is beyond.  I really liked your upgrades to the Phantom I.  I would love to do that to mine as well as the other 3 Phantoms; I have all 4.

That's the Vision Line Hudson cab interior.  Obviously it can be installed, you see it there!

WOW, four Phantom sets!  You need to seek out a bunch of powered trucks with pickups for those conversions.  That will be the difficult part.  Grafting the motor in wasn't all that difficult as long as you find the proper power truck with pickups, the mounting plate comes with the motor.  I found an old scrap chassis at Henning's with the motor and the mounting plate I needed, it was a perfect match.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's the Vision Line Hudson cab interior.  Obviously it can be installed, you see it there!

WOW, four Phantom sets!  You need to seek out a bunch of powered trucks with pickups for those conversions.  That will be the difficult part.  Grafting the motor in wasn't all that difficult as long as you find the proper power truck with pickups, the mounting plate comes with the motor.  I found an old scrap chassis at Henning's with the motor and the mounting plate I needed, it was a perfect match.

I'll look around for that part; I assume it will fit other Lionel Hudsons like the grey 785 from the late 80's or even the Williams Scale Hudsons, if even just for esthetics.

As for the Phantoms, YES I have all 4 and the consists; wasn't a fan of the Batman version so I passed on that one.  I noticed in your video that you upgraded the RailSounds system, changed out the white headlight to an ice blue and the smaller light is red.  The factory sound system I'll stick with but what did you do to change out the lighting?  Would love to do that to mine.

I replaced the headlight with an LED, added the red MARS light, and then put a color changing LED in the turbine inlet for an interesting effect.   I just used the later Phantom sound board as it had a few more sounds than the original Phantom 1 chip set.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I replaced the headlight with an LED, added the red MARS light, and then put a color changing LED in the turbine inlet for an interesting effect.   I just used the later Phantom sound board as it had a few more sounds than the original Phantom 1 chip set.

That doesn't sound scary. Can you get me specifics as to which bulbs and MARS light you used? Would love to add them to mine.

I got the TMCC model for about $700 a year ago.   Easily one of my favorite articulated steam engines.   Was my first Lionel.   Haven't had any problems with it and yeah, the whistle is AWESOME.

@RailFan820 posted:

That doesn't sound scary. Can you get me specifics as to which bulbs and MARS light you used? Would love to add them to mine.

Let's continue this conversation here: John's C&O Yellowbelly Hudson Upgrades

Good morning David,

I sent you and email to go over anything you’re interested in having done.

Thanks, Alex

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Of course, Pat could put a real drive shaft into that EM-1.

Here's the one he put into my C&O Yellowbelly when he did it's upgrade to the Pittman from the old Pulmore.

Look at that, real universal joints and all metal as well!   The drive train runs butter-smooth with that linkage.

Pat and John,

What is the best place to source the upgraded drive shaft?  Do you normally have some on hand when you order or are they all engine specific?

I have a couple of them I bought on eBay some time back.  I used one, but never used the others.  They come in various lengths, really nice product for a few bucks.

@DaveGG posted:

Pat and John,

What is the best place to source the upgraded drive shaft?  Do you normally have some on hand when you order or are they all engine specific?

The bay or Jeff Beso’s place…..either one, these are RC car driveshafts, they are double jointed, and constant velocity. They come in various lengths, and various end bores. I pretty much exclusively use the 4mm end bore as that’s what I encounter often…..the Pittmans pretty much all have 4mm shafts, and even if I encounter a worm shaft of larger diameter, I just spin down the very end to 4mm…..

Pat

Do you think the TMCC class A could have the same issue as the EM-1?  Had mine upgraded to Legacy by Bruk last year.  Amazing engine.  Simple fix as Norm pointed out if it ever happens.

@superwarp1 posted:

Do you think the TMCC class A could have the same issue as the EM-1?  Had mine upgraded to Legacy by Bruk last year.  Amazing engine.  Simple fix as Norm pointed out if it ever happens.

Gary, the slipping cup on the EM1 was only on that particular model. I’ve fixed dozens of the EM1’s ……I’ve never seen or even heard of the A’s doing it,…..AMOF, I’ve never had an A in for any heavy mechanical woes, other than the odd wreck, shipping damage, or mishandling…..that engine is a tank, & so is the EM1 from that era…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Gary, the slipping cup on the EM1 was only on that particular model. I’ve fixed dozens of the EM1’s ……I’ve never seen or even heard of the A’s doing it,…..AMOF, I’ve never had an A in for any heavy mechanical woes, other than the odd wreck, shipping damage, or mishandling…..that engine is a tank, & so is the EM1 from that era…

Pat

Awesome thanks.  EM1 would be a perfect engine for conversion to Legacy. But as Ben stated those railsounds 4.0 are some of the best I’ve heard.  Upgraded to ERR with all of gunrunners improvements and a better smoke unit like Norm has does make for a sweat engine.

@superwarp1 posted:

Awesome thanks.  EM1 would be a perfect engine for conversion to Legacy. But as Ben stated those railsounds 4.0 are some of the best I’ve heard.  Upgraded to ERR with all of gunrunners improvements and a better smoke unit like Norm has does make for a sweat engine.

Yeah, I did my son’s TMCC EM1 with a Cruise M, completely redesigned the smoke set up, & steel forward driveshaft, …..he has the legacy version too, and although I Pittman swapped the legacy, the TMCC I feel is the better engine,…..whistle steam is neat, but I’ll take brawn and robust sounds/performance and surrender the whistle steam 7 days a week, and twice on Sunday!…

Pat

With the old TMCC stuff you can upgrade on the cheap. Add a 4 lobe chuff cam, wire a second cherry switch next to the chuff switch to trigger the smoke fan motor in sync with the chuff. Boom 4 chuffs and puffing smoke for ~$1.