Lionel Legacy E8 A-A sets

My AT&SF set arrives tomorrow morning (I hope and expect). Surely I am not going to be the first to post photos of the most sought-after version of this new run? I will not mention any other contender(s) by name.

 

P.S. The Rock Island set pictured above compares favorably with the K-Line version from some years back. That had motorized roof fans but the main attraction was a beautiful finish.

 

Hi Guys!  Here are some pictures of the MKT E8's.....  They look great with the MTH Texas Special Passenger Cars.  

 

 

Wow, These are some beautiful pictures.  My set of Sante Fe E8's are here but I have no clue how to post them.  (They are still in the trunk of my car.) I will ge them out Sunday afternoon.  Would someone show a side view of the A units coupled back to back??? From what I have seen, They are a Grand Slam!!! Thanks.

Here's the Santa Fe's. Enjoy the photos!

 

 

Those are incredible.  Beautiful.  The SF version is killer man.  Congrats

 

The GGD set will look awesome behind this.  

 

How do they sound?  

I am going for a Santa Fe in the morning.

NVisich that engine looks pretty sharp in the famous Santa Fe warbonnet scheme. Thanks for posting photos of your most-recent addition to your locomotive roster! 

Congrats to y'all who were able to secure thses E8s from the second run. If Lionel ever offers an Illinois Central set, I'm toast!

These all look nice!  I hope we get to also see the Seaboard, Erie, and C&O engines.

The only thing I see that I don't like is Lionel continues to use that ridiculous stubby step on the rear of each side. Easy fix by replacing it, but why use it. It's behind the truck and doesn't restrict turning radius.

Question for those who purchased the SF...  Is the silver finish on the Lionel E8's reflective to any degree?  It's difficult to tell from the photographs posted thus far.

 

I only ask, because I just acquired an MTH E8 ABBA set that I plan to use for my GGD El Cap due out very soon.  And I am THRILLED with the silver finish on the MTH E8's.  Difficult to describe exactly, but the finish has a soft/subtle, satin reflective appearance to it.  Not shiny reflective like you'd see on a classic automobile's chrome bumper -- rather it's more of a satin look with a degree of reflectiveness.

 

VERY different than the flat silver finish on my Lionel Santa Fe F3 ABBA units, which were the first F3 scale units Lionel made (equipped with TMCC).  The Lionel F3 units (from roughly 10-12 years ago) have absolutely no reflective finish whatsoever, so the MTH E8's are quite a show-stopper to my eyes.  I will try to post photos this weekend if I get the chance.  Not sure if what I'm attempting to describe will show up with iPhone photos, but I'll give it a shot.  I don't have my photo studio set up for product photography right now, or I'd go that route.    Stay tuned...

 

David 

Hi David, I have been looking for the same MTH E8 or E6 SF set but can't find a price below $600 shipped. I looked at all our sponsors here unless I missed some one...Cheers!

 

  The Lionel F3 units (from roughly 10-12 years ago) have absolutely no reflective finish whatsoever

David - Those Santa Fe F3's were painted correctly, and should not have a reflective finish.  The first of the prototype Santa Fe F3's #16 through #21 never had stainless panels and had an exaggerated War Bonnet.  All the later F passenger units had stainless.

 

This photo is of one of those units.  If you compare it to the Lionel F's, you can see what a fine job Lionel did in modeling it. 

  

Sam,

 

I think I just was lucky enough to catch the recent Nassau Hobby sale, which brought the price of the ABA set under $600 shipped.  Then I grabbed the extra B-unit (non-powered) from Stockyard Express to complete the full ABBA (which has TWO powered A units).  Can't wait to pair this config with the GGD El Cap train.    I'm confirmed for an 8-car set, and on standby for 2 extra cars.  Keeping my fingers crossed on those.

 

David

Howard, many thanks for the great info on the prototype Santa Fe F3's.  I'm just an enthusiast when it comes to this stuff.  So it's nice to hear from the experts to see if/when the importers take any "artistic license" when producing these models.   

 

Sounds like Lionel got those early F3's right.  Now I wonder how true the fit-and-finish is for the E8's:  both the Lionel and MTH versions.

 

David

Well David, like I said before, no pix it ain't happened...

 

I'd like to see the ABBA in SF colors on a nice layout, must look fantastic..can you entertain us with such a delight?

Same here (thanks/being an enthusiast). Still waiting on my delivery of the AT&SF set but meanwhile I too have been wondering about the finish.

 

No doubt somebody who really knows their railroads can chime in on this to correct any misunderstanding on my part.

 

A bit of research through the rail photo sites tends to suggest that as built these engines had a semi-reflective silver finish but I haven't found any text confirming the position one way or the other. The Lionel finish looks to be a good representation of this and (FWIW) it's similar to the finish on a Challenger Imports HO version of the AT&SF E8, which although described as "plated" was not made to look like stainless steel. Anyway, here are nos. 86 and 83 in service:

 

For completeness here is the Challenger version too:

 

 

Some interesting background information from more than one source is as follows: "The Santa Fe E8's, dating to 1952-53, were not the typical E8 but actually extensive rebuilds of the venerable Santa Fe E1's dating to 1937-38.  Santa Fe called their rebuilt E1's E8m's.  Essentially from all outside appearances the Santa Fe E8m's looked identical to standard E8's.   The number series for the E1's were #2-#9.  The E8m's were numbered #80-#87."

Hancock52 - I think the only Santa Fe War bonnet passenger units that were painted instead of having stainless steel panels were the early F3's mentioned above, the FT's Santa Fe repainted for passenger service and later repainted back for freight, and the Fairbanks-Morse Erie Built.  Everything else had stainless panels which would include the E8's. 

 

My guess is that the early F3's and the FM Erie built didn't get stainless because of shortages caused by WWII.  They were some of the earliest diesels produced after the war.

Thanks very much for the info. I wondered if it might be the case that the early units were an exception but it did not occur to me that it might have been because of war shortages.

 

I expect I will find that these new models are painted silver in the same way as my SF F3s (but I might post a comparison shot later).

When the Lionel PRR versions were delivered last year it was pointed out that the bodies are a bit too narrow.

 

This is fairly obvious when looking at the nose, as well as body width in relation to the truck sideframes when compared to the prototype.

 

I'm not sure if these E8's are K Line tooling too? I may be mistaken but I believe Lionels previous offerings of E6-7's are the correct width as well as F units.

THE TRUCKS ! THE TRUCKS ! Are they all wheels flanged type? 1st and 3rd axle flanged ? All wheel drive and geared ? Side Frame detail? Piping etc. ?  Stopped buying MTH E6, E8 or PA because of NO New Upgraded Power Trucks, 15years overdue, plastic blind flangeless inside wheels 031 ugh!

Take it easy! All wheels flanged. Pretty good truck detail too I'd say although not a lot of piping. Not all wheel drive - I've only seen that on E8s from 3rd Rail who of course use a horizontal drive mechanism - but 8 out of 12 wheels geared (the inside pairs) on the powered unit. Will post photos later if no one else does first.

Looking at the silver finish on the bottom photo of NVisich's photos of the Lionel model, right under the forward-most porthole (which is most accurate view because it catches the light the most directly and at the least angle), the silver color looks like a dead ringer for Hancock52s second prototype photo (his middle photo). Looks like Lionel did a very accurate job on the color.

 

Interesting that in his top photo of the prototype, which photo is taken at a certain angle, the silver appears quite dark. A bit more of an angle in certain light conditions and it might appear almost black to the camera. That's one of the stories/explanations for the origin of Lionel's postwar black Warbonnets.

Just an FYI but the recent publication from The Santa Fe Historical & Modeling Society has a feature on the Santa Fe E units Complete history of each one (From Amos & Andy to E8 #87, and all the modifications done to them.

 

I agree. That RI Rocket is a stunner!

Here are my Wabash Units with a F7 B sandwiched in the middle. It sounds like Rich made it over to Decatur to record the Crewtalk for these engines too. Man he gets around. 

 

Kevin, beautiful set of Wabash diesels. Thanks for the video.

Did somebody say Decatur?  Well there's the new Bluebird!

 

  

 

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Kevin - Thanks for posting the video.  You have a wonderful set!

On Lionel's ATSF E8 what are the shrouds on top of the roof in front and behind the cooling fans?  

 

thanks!

Nice to see/hear a video - Thanks Kevin.

 

Noticed that the B unit also smokes;  is it a powered B?  

Powered B. I also got the dummy B and swapped shells with a Western Maryland powered B so I have 2 powered B units. 

 

I can't wait for the passenger cars to arrive! 

 

marker, Thanks for posting the Bluebird photo in Decatur. 

Well . . . I was not going to rain on the parade, but - since you asked - those are the ice breakers applied in the home road shop, by Union Pacific, on its E8's after 1954 when the City streamliners were equipped with dome cars.

 

Santa Fe E8m's did not have them.  However, Santa Fe did apply a radio ground plane -- a rectangle of flat steel on four legs which held the radio antenna.  The purpose, I was told by the Communications Supervisor, was to make maintenance of the antenna easier, and it also made the radio work better in Santa Fe's treeless territory, where radio sites were often distant from one another and placed atop a mesa some distance from the track, for the widest possible coverage.

 

The Santa Fe apparatus did not look exactly like the UP ice breaker, but it may have been close enough either for Lionel to ask for it, or for the builder in China to have misinterpreted it.  I am personally not bothered by it, and it could probably be removed and, with some touch-up and light weathering on the roof, nobody would be inclined to tell that it was ever applied by Lionel.  It would not be a deal breaker for me.

Pardon me, I left my tears on the jukebox . . . Wait!  That's the wrong song.  But a tear is forming in each eye at this reminder of how well my Home Road washed its locomotives, especially in passenger service, with frequent spraying of silver paint on the pilot, trucks, and fuel tank.  Nobody else did it better.  I am so glad I got to be part of it.

Marty, Blue Streak, Al, Nvisch - Thanks for posting photos of your Wabash, Rock Island, Katy, and Santa Fe units.  They stirred up great memories.

 

N&W 1218, thanks for posting the video of your Wabash units.  The oscillating headlight pulses at just the right speed to replicate the Pyle Gyralite, which was the Wabash favorite.

Tom,

Thanks for the information and no worries you did not rain on my parade, as I still look forward to getting my ATSF E8s.  I did see the radio ground plane in the image you copied into the post.  Now that would have been a cool detail to have been included.  Regardless they look great to me.  Do you think Lionel got the finish right?

 

thanks again for sharing your knowledge!!

I'm glad you chimed in Tom. I went through my entire SF library and couldn't find any mention of those ice breakers, and obviously no pictures. I need an Oldhead in my library The books don't always cover everything.

Nice to see they chose the correct color for the PC Units...Dark Green (Just kidding...black).

 

I wonder if they will have the haunting air whistle?

So here's a few photos of my AT&SF set on the rails, mainly with an eye to showing the finish. The silver parts are semi-reflective meaning that they have a slight gloss on them but are not an attempt to replicate stainless steel. This first shot shows the two units half in and half out of bright light and you'll also notice they couple together relatively closely - closer than my older Lionel Legacy pairs:

 

 

For comparison size and color-wise here is one with a pre-Legacy 6-14590 F3 A unit in front. There's a slight difference in the colors that doesn't show up that much in the photo but the older unit has a more reddish cast to it: 

 

 

 

Finally, there was a query about the trucks so here's a close-up of the powered unit front truck:

 

 

The set is a very smooth runner. Video does not quite do justice to the sound, which has a very nice resonance to it.

Looks good Hancock52!  That bad boy looks like it's ready to head the Oil Flyer to Tulsa.