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This is one of Lionel's better kept secrets. It's based on the Southern RR Mikado they released in the early 90s but has a DC motor, Odysessy, and wireless tether and was released in 2000. It only somewhat resembles a NYC engine, possibly an H5 class. What I find most desirable is not only only is the motor DC buts its a 9434 Pittman, one of the largest and torquiest motor used in any O scale engine. The boiler casting is also very heavy which means its likely capable of pulling over 40 freight cars, maybe more with ease. Try that with your Legacy Mikes.

Where it fell short was having only a two lobe cam and puffer smoke unit which gave 1 puff per rev. That was addressed by replacing the cam with a 4 lobe and the smoke unit with a fan unit used in most current Lionchief engines. Details added included a scale front coupler from Precision Scale that actually operates prototypically. Also replacing the red class LEDs with green and adding clear lenses. Finally my usual mods of cab curtains and deck plate and in this case shortening the drawbar.

I usually leave Odyssey alone if its working but this engine had an odd stutter that I first thought was mechanical binding but turned out to be the Odyssey board. A Cruise M fixed that but as they usually do it killed serial data so a 3 wire IR emitter in the drawbar replaced the 2 wire. In a 2 wire setup the R2LC has to power the LED directly. A 3 wire buffers that signal with a transistor relieving current draw from the rado board.

Anyway, here is a pic of the cam and video of the result. Hopefully Rich won’t pull the thread for posting in portrait mode but it was the only way I could get this angle with my iPad.

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Last edited by Norton
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Nice job. I'd grab one but the model in no way resembles any ATSF Mikado, even though Lionel offered one painted as such. This model probably has the best driveline of any 3 rail Mikado. I'm pretty sure the original issue Southern and Frisco versions from the early 90s also had a Pittman. I know for sure they weren't Pullmor powered.

I picked up a Premier USRA light Mikado from Pat to bash into a ATSF 3129 class Mikado. Oddly enough the first generation of Premier USRA light Mikados had a 9434 as well. The later one I have (PS3) they changed the chassis and a 9434 no longer fits. Pat had to put a stubby 9413 in it.

The 6-axle tender is accurate for a 4100-class Frisco Mikado.  The locomotive otherwise has little in common with the prototype.  (The more recent 4126 USRA Mike is not much better in that regard:  Lionel has yet to produce a reasonably accurate Frisco steam engine.  Frisco did have USRA Lt Mikes, but they were the 4000-class.)

This is why I beat myself in the head with a hammer,.....always trying trying to get to Pete’s level,.....man’s on the top floor looking down,....awesome work,....I was privileged to see process as it unfolded,.....talented craftsman!..

FWIW, ..these Mikes are probably the pinnacle of Lionel’s bulletproof mechanical construction, as Pete mentioned, ......large Pittman motor, robust gear box and plenty of heft,....couple to that small drivers, so these Mikes are absolute brutes ,.

Pat

@Norton posted:

This is one of Lionel's better kept secrets. It's based on the Southern RR Mikado they released in the early 90s but has a DC motor, Odysessy, and wireless tether and was released in 2000. It only somewhat resembles a NYC engine, possibly an H5 class. What I find most desirable is not only only is the motor DC buts its a 9434 Pittman, one of the largest and torquiest motor used in any O scale engine. The boiler casting is also very heavy which means its likely capable of pulling over 40 freight cars, maybe more with ease. Try that with your Legacy Mikes.



1 - so far as I know, this Lionel Mike is the only proper 3RO model of the Southern Rwy M class Mikes - and of the 4501 excursion loco of that class, which I rode behind twice years ago. Everybody else simply painted a Light USRA Mike green and called it the 4501. I have one (Frisco-painted originally) that I put an 8-wheel tender behind and decorated for the 4501 in freight service.

2 - strangely enough, I bought conventional version one of these some years ago with the idea of making it into a NYC Mike - probably an H-5 - as there are some basic proportions that work pretty well for this. I was going to re-detail it of course, and use an Elesco FWH to further "NYC" it.  But, I decided to skip it as I am shedding projects. I sold it. 

Norton - So out of curiosity (because I couldn't recall seeing this particular engine) for interest's sake I looked up 6-18079 in my stash of Lionel catalogs.  It's a beautiful looking engine in the full page pic on page 8 of the Lionel Heritage 1999 catalog.  I also see that they did a 2nd version of it (6-18080) with Rio Grande #1210 on it, and that Lionel's MSRP (for each) was $1,249.95.  (I guess they thought saying $1,250 would be considered too much by potential purchasers - lol)

Awesome work. These were the engines(this particular model I mean) I always say all over EBay. I did see one at my local train store as well but never bit on it. I had read somewhere of issues with something in it plus I thought they were overpriced on EBay. It is a great looking engine, just never got to getting one.

The only issue with some of them Dave, is they will sometimes exhibit the “Oddesy Lurch” ...this is easily remedied with a ERR Cruise M. driver ,.....the only thing to note when adding the M is also fixing the IR transmitter so the M doesn’t rob all the serial data ,.....the M can be a selfish son of a gun,....😉

Pat

@PH1975 posted:

Norton - So out of curiosity (because I couldn't recall seeing this particular engine) for interest's sake I looked up 6-18079 in my stash of Lionel catalogs.  It's a beautiful looking engine in the full page pic on page 8 of the Lionel Heritage 1999 catalog.  I also see that they did a 2nd version of it (6-18080) with Rio Grande #1210 on it, and that Lionel's MSRP (for each) was $1,249.95.  (I guess they thought saying $1,250 would be considered too much by potential purchasers - lol)

Its easy to forget how expensive the engines in the 90s cost. I think the 1990 700E listed for nearly the same dollar amount as the 2010 Vision Hudson.

I am still blown away by current prices so will stick with older items depreciated.

Pete

@Mikado 4501 posted:

You really can’t go wrong with the old 4501 tooled Mikados. Even the oldest ones from ‘92/93 with the somewhat less powerful Pittman/Mabuchi (whichever one it is) can motor are sone of my best and most reliable runners - my Southern one being converted to ERR Cruise.

Lovely work as always Pete.

Didn't you post a thread for a build you did on this model, IIRC?  It was very impressive....if memory serves.

One other thing that I was always drawn to by this engine was the color of the boiler front. Not sure if that is graphite but it sure isn't white silver or whatever has plagued the color charts in recent times. Out of the few engines I had seen around the time of its original release, this was one that had those colors that I was drawn to. Sure there was probably a few others out there, like the Big Boy, but this was the first that caught my eye. Being that right around this time, 1999-2001 was when I got out of the hobby before coming back. A lot of interesting engines and as many have said good solid models did I miss. All didn't have the fantasy clown paint schemes either that I know of unless I am sorely mistaken(fantasy clown colors are the most recent times, past 5 or so years). I can't imagine what my reaction would have been back in those days seeing any of those old engines in funky brown, red, yellow and orange paint schemes.

Don, I used this one from a Lionchief engine. Many use them as do a lot of Legacy engines but the Legacy version has the added thermistor for smoke control. I prefer simple. The resistor was swapped out for a 22 ohm 2 watt wirewound driven directly from the R2LC. In the video you see normal smoke but if I had pressed AUX1 9 it out smokes most MTH engines and sets off smoke alarms.


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Pete

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Last edited by Norton

Didn't you post a thread for a build you did on this model, IIRC?  It was very impressive....if memory serves.

Yes I did!

I had a bunch of threads following its process, but I still have it and it's still one of my favorites. Mostly because it was the first major O gauge upgrade project I did by myself, with the help of John Will and Alex M.

I have a few of the LEGACY Mikados and they're really nice and I love whistle steam, but those really come second banana to these older models in terms of torque and reliability.

@Norton posted:

Thomas, does your Southern Mikado have a Pittman or big Mabuchi motor like a 550 or 555? The parts site has only an illustration with no real description other than DC motor.

Pete

The Southern 4501 Mikados did not have Pittman's. They had the Mabuchi's. Pretty reliable. I have upgraded two to Tmcc. Its a very nice platform. I plan to put legacy in mine with a Pittman.

I don't have a huge problem with most of the Mabuchi motors, they've certainly been way more reliable than the crappy Canon motors that Lionel is now using in the Legacy steam!  Also, I've had three (count them three) Canon motors come in totally shorted!  Two took out the RCMC with no hope of repair, the remaining one also took out the RCMC, but I was able to replace the driver FETs and get it running again.

I don't have a huge problem with most of the Mabuchi motors, they've certainly been way more reliable than the crappy Canon motors that Lionel is now using in the Legacy steam!  Also, I've had three (count them three) Canon motors come in totally shorted!  Two took out the RCMC with no hope of repair, the remaining one also took out the RCMC, but I was able to replace the driver FETs and get it running again.

Three words that can’t be used in the same sentence.......Canon, Mubachi, and good.......

Pat

Oh Pat you and your Pittman's 😂😂. They sure are bullet proof, but you have to give Mabuchi's some credit. Lionel used them, Weaver used them, MTH used them, and Williams used them. They might be a cast iron tank, but they can get the job done.

I’ll give you that Sid,....only reason Mubachi’s can be considered “good” would be due to saturation,....they do win the battle, but only by attrition,...😝😝😝.....wouldn’t be bad if we could at least fix them,....or at the very least not have the gears and flywheels practically fused to the shafts,......

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

I’ll give you that Sid,....only reason Mubachi’s can be considered “good” would be due to saturation,....they do win the battle, but only by attrition,...😝😝😝.....wouldn’t be bad if we could at least fix them,....or at the very least not have the gears and flywheels practically fused to the shafts,......

Pat

That would be nice haha. Well maybe some day someone will make an affordable ish can motor that is solid.

Well, I agree with the Canon part, but I've had far fewer issues with Mabuchi motors and don't bear them any particular malice.   They're not a Pittman, but they never tried to be.

They all can have their issues, ....my biggest issue with a Mubachi is the life altering experience it takes to replace one if a direct ready to drop in replacement isn’t available,.....if ALL Mubachis ( I know it isn’t economical) had slip fit set screwed components, this would be a mute point,.....at least I have a legitimate gripe, unlike some other threads on this forum,...😉

Pat

@Norton posted:

Thomas, does your Southern Mikado have a Pittman or big Mabuchi motor like a 550 or 555? The parts site has only an illustration with no real description other than DC motor.

Pete

I still had a photo of when I still had the shell off. Though Sid already answered, it uses the RS-550 type specifically. I think these are the same ones used on the ALCO PA-1's and MU commuter cars released around the same time. This engine even has a modest sized flywheel (which is great).

It's been awhile since I really tested the drawbar pull on this engine, but since all four of its flanged drivers have traction tires, it does pretty darn well almost 30 years later. I think I had 30 freight cars behind it once with little struggle, and this was on our 4-H club's layout which doesn't have the greatest trackwork, or cleanest.

I'm sure the 2000 models could do even better. I'd geuinely like to see a pull contest between all these Mikes, including the LEGACY ones.

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Last edited by Mikado 4501
@harmonyards posted:

They all can have their issues, ....my biggest issue with a Mubachi is the life altering experience it takes to replace one if a direct ready to drop in replacement isn’t available,.....if ALL Mubachis ( I know it isn’t economical) had slip fit set screwed components, this would be a mute point,.....at least I have a legitimate gripe, unlike some other threads on this forum,...😉

Pat, that is indeed a legitimate gripe, the lack of the ability to easily remove/replace flywheels/gears is a major PITA.

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