Lionel N&W Class Z Mallet

Oh good grief! When is Lionel going to wise up?

Although, I don't work for Lionel, and eventhough I would love too, but I would be broke "working for trains", it is clear that during the product development of certain release products, items like scale pilot wheels, cab curtains, wrong sand boilers, upside down trailing trucks, wrong drivers, the list goes on and on, have been priced balanced out of the production development processd, for ease of using off the shelf 'tradeable' items.

It has been cleary evident that most toy manufactures are more business oriented people and not truely 'train' people, otherwise these simple items would be fixed?

Some items can be over looked, others well I will wait for the next release.

I also ordered this engine, but LHS didnt have it for me before Christmas.There always a week or two later than most. Hopefully I can pick it up tomorrow.

I was wondering , where did it say this was suppose to be a Z1 ? I missed that part. Quite a loose interpatation. If i remember not only where pumps on the side , the running boards stepped up and back down the other side of the the pumps.

Wheres hot water?LOL





I thought this engine was a pacifiar for N&W fans until they actually made a Z1a or b.They should of waited and done it right.

Oh well.

Pat I have to agree,

Every time a Lionel catalog comes out , I'm the first one to say my wallets safe this time No N&W motive power. I guess Lionels taking their Que from Bachmann
Let's make a J offer it in 7 or 8 road names in was never done in.
Coarse the the Bachmann is a thousand dollars cheaper than the Lionel.
Guess lionel has a lot tied up in those decals on the tender

David

Whats sad is the N&W big steam or any steam(and rolling stock) has been neglected for quite a while . Then comes - slap a decal on a re run of something for them.If they where going to do this the Class A would of been the right candidate. I personally havnt seen the engine yet so maybe crying for nothing.

I have the USRA version and really like it, except as I said in another thread (pictures there) it has a prototypical pivot point and so the boil overhangs terribly on curves. The smoke is great, the whistle steam effect nice, and the sound correct for a compound Mallet type.

I have no idea if the various equipment on my model is accurate or not: prototypical detail is not that important to me as long as the loco looks and sounds good.

Frankly, I think it is a mistake to expect prototypical detail except from 3rd rail and the like. I always assume that Lionel, MTH, and others are just "badge engineering" different roadnames unless the picture clearly show a difference (the Texas offered in the 2011 catalog had a different tender if it was PRR, etc).

The Mallet is a nice loco. Modeltrainstuff.com has about half a dozen at a good discount, by the way . . .

Lionel and MTH do indulge in some "badge engineering", for sure - but for the most part they produce very accurate models of locos and rolling stock. I'm speaking of the upper-end, "premier" items. The RK and lower-end lines range anywhere from very accurate (RK Scale) to
"seriously?".

They will get mileage out of expensive tooling, oh yeah. The PM 2-10-4 for example; the PM never had them. The Lima transfer diesel,
which only the PRR had, but MTH is offering them in SOO, ATSF and EJE. They had Baldwin's similar - similar, only - loco.
But their nice items are truly accurate models of something at some point, and typically every bit as nice as 3rd Rail's. Sometimes
nicer. I think that Lionel's J3 Hudson (minus class lights) captures the "feel" of a J3 better than 3rd Rail's. Both are sitting
on my layout.

My knowledge of prototype locos - especially steam - is fairly extensive, and will not buy an expensive, inaccurate model.
The L&N-painted NKP Berk from MTH is a good example. Nice loco, but traveling under false pretenses.

I have seen this engine at my LHS the thing I didn't like was that they left the numberboards on top of the boiler, yuck. I know it isn't anywhere near a Z1 but I might have been interested if it didn't have Mickey Mouse ears. No offense to Walt Disney.

Be patient, give it a year or two for the blowout pricing to kick in,then you just might be able to overlook the inaccuracies.

quote:

Let me get this straight if I post a picture you won't tell my wife. If I do post a picture the other forum member will tell my wife--it is better not to post or comment on ownership any further.

Dang Scott;
You can't win for losing. You should have stayed in bed this morning.

quote:

Originally posted by RickO:
Be patient, give it a year or two for the blowout pricing to kick in,then you just might be able to overlook the inaccuracies.

I agree; there is no excuse for a company that has been in business for over 100 years to get the detail wrong. Especially when one is spending $1,000.00 +.

This would be true for all train manufactures IMHO.


"She took the Atchison, Topeka & the Santa FE"

quote:

Originally posted by Big Jim:
Oh good grief! When is Lionel going to wise up?

Big Jim, I think it's more "When are toy/model train collectors going to wise up?".

For people professing that "We love our trains", folks sure do take whatever bone is tossed their way.

The manufacturers need to get out of their cozy offices for a few years and realize there's more to railroading than what's north of DC or west of the Rockies.

Would it cost anymore to get it right than it does to make it wrong? There's practically a historical society for every railroad that ever ran in this country, all that has to be done is ask for help. It doesn't have to be rivet counting (Archer makes rivet decals for that ) but they could at least get the big details (like air pumps) right.

All I can say is...know your prototype and demand better from the makers. It can't do anything but benefit us all.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Jim:
Oh good grief! When is Lionel going to wise up?

Big Jim, I think it's more "When are toy/model train collectors going to wise up?".

For people professing that "We love our trains", folks sure do take whatever bone is tossed their way.

The manufacturers need to get out of their cozy offices for a few years and realize there's more to railroading than what's north of DC or west of the Rockies.

Would it cost anymore to get it right than it does to make it wrong? There's practically a historical society for every railroad that ever ran in this country, all that has to be done is ask for help. It doesn't have to be rivet counting (Archer makes rivet decals for that ) but they could at least get the big details (like air pumps) right.

All I can say is...know your prototype and demand better from the makers. It can't do anything but benefit us all.

Your so right Bob,

Thing of it is with this great world wide web they shouldn't even have to leave the office to get the material they need to get it right.

There's no excuse for taking the air pumps off the front of the boiler and saying now it's an N&W engine.
The worst part about it is Lionel knows that most of us that would buy an N&W "Z" class Loco would know just where those air pumps should be.
That's Okay they can sell their Bachmann derived B&O J class Loco.

It'll keep my wallet safe till they come out with a real Legacy "A" or "J"

David

quote:

For people professing that "We love our trains", folks sure do take whatever bone is tossed their way.

Which is really what this offering was all about. Slap a roadname on it and people will eat it up and not care if it is right or wrong.

With their previous 2-6-6-2 model, Lionel had the basis to produce a, if not perfect N&W Z1b, at least something close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. Instead they must have felt that it was more profitable to pander to the unknowing masses.

I took a second look at this locomotive today, I see why they didn't leave the numberboards off as shown on the in the announcement flyer. There would be 2 noticeable holes on top the boiler plus there is a cast in detail in the shell.

Steve

Wow . . . I'm one of the unknowing masses, guys. No offense meant to you and none taken either. With me, all Lionel has to do is slap a roadname on an interesting and good-looking loco with good proportions, good detail, good sound, good smoke and whistle steam effect and a chassis and drive that makes it a good, slow, smooth runner and I'll buy. The Mallet is a great loco . . .

Of course the roadname doesn't matter since I'm relabeling it Union Pacific . . . (Yeah I know they didn't have any 2-6-6-2s, and I have a 2-8-8-2, , but everything on my layout is either SF or UP, even the Alleghenies).

This thread reminds me a bit of some that came out about the Vision Hudson when it was released - it wasn't accurate here or there either. I realize that there are some that care about the number of rivets and such, but I figure they just don't buy them so I don't understand why they would complain.

Anyway, I like the Mallet more than the Hudson - the Hudson is a great loco and I run it alot because with its 0-54 capability it fits my tighter loops and looks good doing so. But I love articulated locos and the Mallet is the smallest full- or near-scale one I own, so its special in that way. It was also a bargain compared to the Hudson, which has nothing on it except the swinging bell... great feature but not really worth $500 . .

quote:

I realize that there are some that care about the number of rivets and such, but I figure they just don't buy them so I don't understand why they would complain.

Lee,
I don't think many of us care about the specific number of rivets, but a pair of air pumps are not rivets and that makes a lot of difference.

We "complain" because we are just as passionate about our trains as you are about yours. Would you buy a knock-off Rolex? That's what this engine is to me, a knock-off and that's why I don't buy them.

Sheesh, if people want only replies that agree with them why not put that in the Heading? Besides, Scott started this post "complaining" that the air pumps were not there. If you take my previous sentence and apply it, he would only want others who also don't like the error, to chime in. So let me turn your comment around:

I realize that there are some that DON'T care about the number of rivets and such, but I figure they just don't buy them ANYWAY so BUT I don't understand why they WOULDN'T complain.

"I realize that there are some that DON'T care about the number of rivets and such, but I figure they just don't buy them ANYWAY so BUT I don't understand why they WOULDN'T complain."

First, as I said, no offense taken --- or meant.

The reasons I don't complain are:

FIRST: my Mallet looks a lot like this particular loco:
Pretty 2-6-6-2 Mallet
I found this picture before ordering, compared it to the picture Lionel posted, and ordered expecting to get a USRA version of the C&O in the picture above. And I did. Again: all Lionel has to do is slap a roadname on an interesting and good-looking loco with good proportions, good detail, good sound, good smoke and whistle steam effect and a chassis and drive that makes it a good, slow, smooth runner and I'll buy.

SECOND: I expect all roadnames of any model loco by MTH, Lionel, or Williams to be identical (except for the roadname and numbers) unless PHOTOs in the catalog show otherwise. And I absolutely expect that, even if the photos do show some differences in headlights, number plate locations, etc., the variations are only in the 'separately applied pieces" -- i.e., all the locos offered make do with the identical basic casting.
---So, when I looked at the offerings for the Mallet on Lionel's website before ordering:
page i looked at before ordering
I noticed that the top picture looked identical to the photo I found of the C&O Pretty Mallet picture (link above). I noticed the USRA version seemed identical as near as I could tell, while the NPR and W&LE had slight changes to the front lights, and that the N&W, which had no air pumps up front and no boiler top number plates, etc. I also recall thinking that photos did not show the other side and that thus they were probably identical. I never thought about N&W Zs or their air pump location, but if I had I would have assumed that if there was not a photo of the far side it was because they are all identical (I've noticed that when the far sides vary, as for example in the Santa Fe "map" reefer sets offered in the 2011 Vol II catalog, Lionel does provide an image of the other side).
So, not meaning to give offense, but I think anyone who expects something different than this is just like Charlie Brown expecting Lucy to hold the football this time: why will she do anything different than in the past? If its important, then I would wait until I could see one in person. But again, for me, all Lionel has to do . . .

Thankfully Lionel still makes north American steam unlike the other guy.

Yall think if I write Norfolk and Western on the handle I can get $1200 bucks out of this one too???

Hey it's a Mallet



David

quote:

Originally posted by kevin b:
Thankfully Lionel still makes north American steam unlike the other guy.

Oh Yeah . . . I love what they are offering, particularly now that they are paying a bit more attention to how well and slowly the premium level locos run in conventional. The only MTH locos I really crave are some of the European steam locos they are making: gotta have the Orient Express, etc.