Lionel new Legacy releases 2019 vs oldies (4014 and 3751)

from what is printed in the catalog no mention of blow down smoke but if you look at the catalogs photo it shows the blow down tubes are there. also no mention of dual smoke units. a word of caution to those purchasing this big boy when you get it remove gear covers on both front and back drive assemblies as the 2014 VL came dry as a bone from the factory. as to adding blow down I would think unless programmed for it when built it most likely will not be able to add the feature but I could be wrong maybe someone from lionel will chime in with possibly more as to what will and will not be included as features for this 2019 big boy release.

thought I would share this with you all In ordering some items from lionel I asked about the 2019 big boy release in volume 2 catalog it will not be a vision line release strictly legacy version so blow down smoke will not be a feature.

also for those of us having the vl big boy from 2014 the pcb for dual smoke that included the smoke resisters and the temp resistor is no longer available even though the parts shows it is available but you have to contact lionel am sure they will update that soon as unavailable now.

No dual smoke units for stack smoke on 2019 Legacy version of Big Boy.

DdotCdot posted:

4014

It seems the side smoke and (obviously) the depleting Coal were dropped in order to represent the oil version and also make this one a non-VL version. I think the first run edition will be worth having, personally. If the mold is identical to the VL version I would love to find a way to get the parts and unit for side smoke and add it into the new release. If the same mother board and serial data are being used as the VL, it should be doable. I have been inside and repaired a dead mother board in a VL Big Boy and replacing the board was way easier than I could have imagined. While I had the hood off I studied that smoke unit positioning and with the right parts - it looks doable.

If by some chance it will have the side smoke effect well....great. Saves all that trouble. That’s my favorite effect on the Vision Line version that I didn’t see cataloged. I’m hoping they didn’t drop the dual individual puffing fan units for the main smoke  ~ that’s probably also tied as a favorite feature.

 

I'm guessing you'll be disappointed.  I think it has the standard Legacy smoke features, stack and whistle smoke.  As far as the board, clearly the RCMC will be programmed for the features available in the new BB, so you'd have to try to get the VL-BB board and see if that works in the new model.  My guess is it will not as they probably dropped the extra controller that does the blowdown and whistle smoke.  The RCMC handles two smoke units, so a single stack and whistle smoke eliminates a bunch of wiring and a board.

I think you need to resign yourself to what features the new model comes with.

BUMMER. Well that answers that. 4014 order cancelled. 

Still interested in 3751. Anyone feel this one will have any advantages over the previous Legacy version (besides the obvious Bluetooth - which I don’t care about)?

your correct gunrunnerjohn as there is a separate board that controls the whistle smoke and blow down smoke units but then it might come with that board and have the place where the blow down would plug into it time will tell when these are delivered.

I am just mentioning this seems the price is a tad high for features you get not sure what the retailers are pricing them at I am only speaking of the full retail msrp.

DdotCdot posted:

BUMMER. Well that answers that. 4014 order cancelled. 

Still interested in 3751. Anyone feel this one will have any advantages over the previous Legacy version (besides the obvious Bluetooth - which I don’t care about)?

BIG Bummer! I was also wanting a 4014, and was VERY disappointed to see that it is not a second release of the Visionline model... The whole reason I wanted it so badly was because of the multiple smoke effects...

SO I will not be ordering one, being as the MTH version will have the same effects for WAY less...  Also, it's $2200.00 retail, with only steaming whistle? Yet the new B&O EM-1 is only $1700 with a steaming whistle?  It's not a good deal by comparison...

It's interesting... It makes the 2014 VL Big Boy MORE collectable and valuable.... 

I think the 3751 is worth ordering, and personally I'd get it if I were you... I'm waiting on one of the new NYC Hudsons, and for $1500, they're a GREAT value...

StPaul posted:

your correct gunrunnerjohn as there is a separate board that controls the whistle smoke and blow down smoke units but then it might come with that board and have the place where the blow down would plug into it time will tell when these are delivered.

VERY difficult to imagine that Lionel will change the stuff and leave extra electronics in place.  In any case, I'm about 99.9% sure that the RCMC would NOT support the extra features as it will be tailored to the new locomotive capabilities.

Absolutely crazy thinking of me back when I put up the original post. No way adding these extra features would work even if the parts were to become available again.

There is a completely new different smoke unit design - a giant unit - that feeds both the main two stacks and whistle stack in 2019 versions. This unit is attached to the boiler, unlike the VL model which has each smoke unit - per exhaust - mounted to the chassis. 

(it appears the new model made room for the Bluetooth board by consolidating the standard legacy smoke features into one giant unit and eliminating the multiple smoke units the VL line model used for multiple effects.)

The new big boy is very good looking though and sounds great. Already repaired a few. There’s a few graphics and new paint details that seem a bit crisper and more balanced looking than VL. Mold is the same. Sound system is the same. And obviously, the true to today’s oil tender is nice. But, overall, the VL wins hands down for special effects and overall excitement. It’s no question why it’s appreciating in collectors value.

If you want a nice looking new Big Boy, and can still get one, I think you’ll like the performance and sound of the 2019 release and should get the excursion run. I didn’t see the half-gloss in the catalog picture for first run edition, but in person it looks totally weird to see the engine glossy and the tender flat matte. Should have just done all gloss or nothing. Don’t care for it. If having “Big Boy” chalked on is more important than settling for a half-done gloss piece, just get a “Big Boy” chalk decal (or literally, bust out the ol’ chalk) and stick it on the front of the excursion version or VL boiler

But if you have to have the VL version - good luck. Better forget about that next long trip overseas and fork up the big bucks.

It's possible that the 2019 version might have a slightly lower gear ratio, which makes it a little easier to achieve smooth operation at single-digit speeds.  Based on some things @Bruk discovered, it seems that Lionel has been trending in this direction.  I don't own either version, so I'm just speculating here.

I have noticed that Lionel will not spend the money to retool the gearing for re-releases. Only one I know of that has been retooled is the VL Niagara. If its been made before its exactly the same again. 

Since the new Big Boys are not Vision Line, I think the question isn't whether you'd want a VL Big Boy or the new run.  VL has more to offer.

Rather, I think the question becomes:  Would you rather have a new Big Boy or one from 2006 or thereabouts?

@Berkshire President posted:

Since the new Big Boys are not Vision Line, I think the question isn't whether you'd want a VL Big Boy or the new run.  VL has more to offer.

Rather, I think the question becomes:  Would you rather have a new Big Boy or one from 2006 or thereabouts?

just so everyone knows - the Vision Line version isn’t yet THAT old. Here are all the Lionel scale Big Boy releases in order:

???? = multiple cab numbers offered, including #4014

1999 - #4006 - TMCC/RS4.0 (pre odyssey)

2006 - #???? Legacy/RS5.0 (wrong whistle)

2014 - #???? - Vision Line (depleting coal load)

2019 - #???? - Legacy (Newest w/oil tender)