Lionel Postwar Diesel Horns

I got the old horn working. I scrubbed the battery holder area with a scotch-brite pad soaked in vinegar. When the alkaline crust turned into gunk, I scraped out as much as I could. The frame area that was fouled now seems to be pitted and scarred. It doesnt look real good, but at least its underneath and inside the frame where its not very visible. Now that the horn is working with a new D cell battery, I have noticed that whenever I turn the engine upside down, the relay contacts close and this activates the horn. That is kind of annoying. Is that normal behavior?

@Mossback Mike posted:

Now that the horn is working with a new D cell battery, I have noticed that whenever I turn the engine upside down, the relay contacts close and this activates the horn. That is kind of annoying. Is that normal behavior?

Yes, the relay has no spring to keep the contact from touching and uses gravity. You turn it on it's side or upside down- horn blows if you leave the battery in it- hence how many of these died.

Also- NO, you cannot use a YLB to power a horn. Yes, there were some DIY regulator mods to reduce the voltage out there- but that is a far, far cry from a YLB.

Just such a DIY regulator battery alternative track power solutions https://ogrforum.com/topic/568...2#152899748896440812

and https://ogrforum.com/topic/bat...-for-p-w-lionel-horn

This battery damage was so common in the 2333 that most of the parts, including the locos frame, are available to repair this kind of damage. Talk to Jeff Kane, The Train Tender, about what you might need.   I have seen these locos in storage in their boxes and you bump the box and the horn will come on. This is usually because the loco is inside down and the battery was not removed.

If you take the locomotive off your layout take the battery out. The worst battlers I have seen for leakage is Dura Cell ruined many Maglites.

@RJT posted:

If you take the locomotive off your layout take the battery out. The worst battlers I have seen for leakage is Dura Cell ruined many Maglites.

I concur 100%.  DuraCells have become a real issue in the leakage area.  When  I was a kid, Ray-O-Vac was guaranteed to ruin everything, but today are a good battery.  The picture is of two Eveready D cells removed from a vintage aviation radio.  The date on them is Nov 1952, they have never leaked, and they still show voltage, when using a VTVM (DVM in the modern era) .  They are 5 months older than me.

@Mossback Mike posted:

I have a postwar Lionel 2333 Diesel F3. The horn doesnt work. A D-cell battery leaked many years ago and fouled the works.

I would like to get the horn working again.

I have seen some posts about 9V batteries being used to replace the 1.5V D-cell battery for these old horns. Has anybody used a YLB to power these old horns?

Mike here some pictures of parts if needed, like the above had said get a hold of jeff kane or just his sight out at the traintender. Good luck Mark

I make a horn board that eliminates the battery and relay. You can see it on eBay.

Another alternative in Royz Trains has a battery replacement board that I have used with good success in several trains.

@The Tinker posted:

I make a horn board that eliminates the battery and relay. You can see it on eBay.

How would I find this replacement on the bay?

If you have even a slight ability to solder, I used a board (not sure of the brand), but the model was an MDK-065.  It takes track power and is relative straight forward to wire.  The yellow wires go to a speaker (polarity is not required), the black and red wires go to the track (polarity is required, because it can do both bell and whistle.  But, you will have to experiment what the polarity is (you can't burn it up).  Finally, there is a set of white wires that CAN be put on a switch that gives you the sound of a diesel rumbling.  It does not speed up or slow down, based on train speed, but does provide a more realistic horn/bell sound.  I actually put a track pickup on my "B" F-3 unit and mounted it in there.  You can also use the track pickup of the dummy "A" unit, since it also is mostly empty.  There is no volume control, so muffling it may be required.  I mounted my speaker in my "B" unit and put it right up against the louvers of the roof.  I took out the D battery.  It has much more of a diesel sound now.  Feel free to message me for where to find them and how to wire them.

Here it is in action:

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/15w6XEEokc/

I hope it helps.

Scott

@The Tinker posted:

To read about it, search "Lionel Diesel horn controller. Replaces battery and relay in locomotives" on eBay. Not sure of the rules here, but hit me up directly for a better price if you are interested.

What type of adhesive did you use to secure the circuit boards to the frames?

I put everything inside of the "B" unit.  I took the track pickup off of an old A that I had that didn't run and used that.  But, you could just as easily put it in an A unit.  I just used double sided 3M tape (I think I used two or three layers) to make sure that it didn't short out the bottom.  But, trust me.  Once that stuff is placed, you had better be happy with it, because it's a "you know what" to get up!  If you put it in an A unit, same thing, but put down a piece of 1/8" wood or something first.   Just to have a flat surface.  I didn't do anything special, like mount it in a project box (which was my plan) with standoff screws and nuts from Lowe's.  I may eventually get back to that, but I have so many projects right not, it works and that was all I needed.  I mounted the speaker to the roof of the B cover, where the louvers are.  I got them on Amazon.  I forget what diameter, but I think there were the good 1 1/2" diameter speakers so that I had plenty of volume.  Now, my layout is a shelf layout, so you only get to see one side of the train.  The circuit card has two wires that can be tied to some sort of switch (like a slide switch that I already had) and I just ran the wires between the frame and the shell.  Now, I can turn on and off the "rail sounds", but keep the horn and the bell sound.  I just had to find a way to get around that darn beat-up, broken down Toyota Corolla horn that came inside the A unit.  Drove me nuts to hear that.  I can probably take it off the shelf and take a couple of photos of it if you are really interested.  I think I got the boards from trainz.com (if I'm allowed to mention that).  I also got two steam engine boards, but they never worked right, so I returned them.  One didn't put out any sound and the other was very crackly.  But, since I parked my steamers in my display case downstairs, it didn't really matter much.  PM (or look up my email in my profile) and get in touch with me if you need additional information.  It wasn't hard to do and I did it in a way that I can undo it and return the B unit to an unpowered B unit, like normal.

Scott in Allen, TX

@Mossback Mike posted:

What type of adhesive did you use to secure the circuit boards to the frames?

I generally use a piece of fishpaper or gasket material as an insulator and use hot glue or clear silicone to lock it down. Most customers use double sided tape but you need foam tape or enough layers to make sure the leads don't poke through and short. Also, I have cut polystyrene sheet to fit into the battery compartments and just glued the board down to that.

@The Tinker posted:

I generally use a piece of fishpaper or gasket material as an insulator and use hot glue or clear silicone to lock it down. Most customers use double sided tape but you need foam tape or enough layers to make sure the leads don't poke through and short. Also, I have cut polystyrene sheet to fit into the battery compartments and just glued the board down to that.

All good idea.  I just didn't have any of that on hand when I tried out my "prototype".  But now, it's running and my prototype has become more permanent.  I will at some point put it on stand offs in a project box.  But, I have too many other project to take that car down right now and mess with it!

@CALNNC posted:

I concur 100%.  DuraCells have become a real issue in the leakage area.  When  I was a kid, Ray-O-Vac was guaranteed to ruin everything, but today are a good battery.  The picture is of two Eveready D cells removed from a vintage aviation radio.  The date on them is Nov 1952, they have never leaked, and they still show voltage, when using a VTVM (DVM in the modern era) .  They are 5 months older than me.

Huh. Interesting, I just today fixed a flashlight with stuck, leaking Ray-O-Vac Alkaline AAA batteries in it. Mileage varies I guess.

@The Tinker posted:

Huh. Interesting, I just today fixed a flashlight with stuck, leaking Ray-O-Vac Alkaline AAA batteries in it. Mileage varies I guess.

I guess it certainly does.  We use Duracell AA batteries for my wife's LED wax candles around the house.  After about 3, maybe four months, the bottom plate where the batteries go, is corroded from leaking batteries.  I have to clean them and scrub them with a wire brush.  It has become a ritual with these vertical batteries in these candles.  But, in the "A" units with the horns, I have just taken the battery out.  I would rather have no horn that run the risk of leaking acid on the frame of the unit or on the track.

@RJT posted:

How would I find this replacement on the bay?

rhug4376 on the bay makes an excellent battery eliminator. For PW diesels and the EP5 rectifier, the circuitry goes right into the battery compartment and three solder connections wire it in. It has a variable voltage choke. That combined with the tension adjustment screw on the horn itself will get you a good sound in most cases. First, a standard install on my 2322 FM:

Next, my 2340 GG-1:

With the G's it takes a bit more doing to install the eliminator, but it's worth it to get the "classic" sound.

The horn really didn't work on either of these locos before the eliminator, no matter what adjustment I made on the horn's tension screw. What I think really did the trick was the adjustable voltage since I could get a little over 1.5 volts with the variable voltage choke.

Nuthin' like "stickies" at the Diner...

The board I make replaces the battery and the relay. In my experience eliminating the battery only kicks the can down the road awhile. The relay is going to fail sooner or later. Of course so will the horn eventually. Sigh.