Lionel Tubular Track is NOT dead!

Mark

Your point is well taken. After cleaning and drying  vintage tubular track with Evap-O-Rust, I check each insulator along the center rail and throw away track sections that may be compromised.  As a final check, when I install track sections on the layout I'm planning, I do a continuity check with a meter to make sure the insulators are doing their job.

Mike 

Mike W, I would like to see the LEDs in your new switches powered up. Can you please post a photo? 

Mike H Mottler posted:

I bought some new Lionel O-gauge tubular track, and also successfully "resurrected from the dead" many vintage track sections using EVAP-O-RUST to remove surface rust and accumulated crud. I soaked the track pieces in the fluid overnight, then rinsed them off with water from a garden hose nozzle, and dried them with a towel. Presto, chango!  Ready to run another 10,000 miles.   The product may remove aged black paint from some of the crossties, but that's not an issue for me.  The shiny tin plating wears off with time, but clean vintage track still conducts electricity just fine.

Mike:

I plan to do something similar as you.  I haven't tried it yet, but I'd like to run the approach I'm contemplating by you (and other readers) to see what your thoughts are:

1. I plan to get an automobile oil drip pan from Pep Boys, Walmart, etc.  For example: http://www.walmart.com/ip/ATP-...p-Pan/16778234#about .  These things are big (4 feet in length) so they will handle the 40" straight sections I have, plus numerous 10" sections.
   
   
2. I will place the pan on a level surface and fill the pan with Evap-o-Rust to a depth of about 1/4" or so.
   
   
3. I will put the O tubular track in the pan rail side down.  If I get the depth of the liquid right, my hope is that this will:
   
   - Preserve the black ties to the extent possible
   
   - Not damage the paper insulators
   
   - Not gum up the switch mechanisms if I put a remote control switch in there (with the motor removed).  (Obviously, I will be testing this on one beat-up, basket case switch first.)
   
   Again, this is rails side down, so nothing would be fully submerged.
   
   
4. When they come out, I will put them briefly in a similar pan filled with denatured alcohol to get rid of any extra residue.
   
   
5. I'll then wipe them clean and use pipe cleaners or something similar to make sure that no extra liquid stays inside the rails.  My hope is to ensure that the pin connections are all good.

Does this sound viable based on your experience?  Or am I being overly optimistic that doing a large quantity of track will be handle-able like this?

Also: I am considering experimenting with various solvents that are intended to degrease, degum, and decrud automobile carburetors (like Berryman's Chem Dip, Gunk, etc.).  I know that Evap-o-Rust has a good reputation for removing rust from steel, but how does it work on that black crud that builds up over time?

Finally, do you have any before/after shots of your track?

Thanks in advance for your help/comments.

Steven J. Serenska

I read the title of this thread and I must admit that in my opinion, all of the tubular track I have IS dead.  Both the K Line and the Lionel.  I haven't seen a single piece make any moves in several years.  Yes, the switch tracks do at times twitch like a muscle spasm but other than that, everything else is totally lifeless.

Steve S.

With your comments you have advanced the dialog about RRFRS (Removing Rust From Rails Syndrome). 

1)  An oil pan tub is a great idea for cleaning 40-inch track sections!  All my O-gauge track sections were 10-inch straights  or O31 curves, and they fit nicely in a kitty litter plastic tub.

2) I placed two levels of track sections in the tub and "baptized" them all with Evap-O-Rust (i.e, immersion, not sprinkling).

3) Placing the track with the rail side down in 1/4-inch level of Evap-O-Rust (or whatever product) will do the job and may help spare the rail insulators and paint on the black crossties. The center rail insulators are made of fiber stock  (not mere paper) and they hold up well to immersion in the fluid. I noticed that the paint on the UNDERSIDE of black crossties is more vulnerable to removal than the top side.  About switches ... O22 switches have a paper insulating liner inside for electrical insulation (it's like brown Kraft paper).  If it gets wet, it'll be ruined. However, it can be replaced; just remove the metal bottom plate of an O22 switch for use as a pattern, cut a fresh insulating paper, and install it.  I use 36# paper stock for that purpose; it has a bit more heft than standard 20# paper stock. This may be the boyhood equivalent of cut-out paper dolls for girls!

4) Many train hobbyists affirm denatured alky as a "universal solvent," so it would probably do the job. However, Evap-O-Rust suggests using plain water.  The product is biodegradable, non-toxic, and enviro-friendly.  I hose down the track segments at the back yard lawn with a rinsing stream from the garden hose nozzle. I believe the water pressure may help loosen some black crud.

5) Evap-O-Rust will find its way inside the web of tinplate track through the underside seam. All to the good.  Yes, it removes the "black crud" too -- the residue from overzealous lubrication, mixed with carbon, and "fried" from arcing on the rails. While drying the track sections, I strike them on the patio table top to shake loose any fluid trapped inside the web of the rails.  Some guys remove all the track pins prior to derusting and then re-install and tighten them in the rails afterward with a spiffy pliers tool custom-designed for that task. I confess I'm not that fussy.  Pipe cleaners inserted into the open rail ends is a good method! If I discover track pieces that are hopelessly lost to rust, I just toss them away and don't waste time (and expensive Evap-O-Rust fluid) on them.  New tubular track sections aren't that expensive.

I didn't take pix of the process.  I'll run another batch soon, and will take BEFORE and AFTER pix then. I should ask Evap-O-Rust for a royalty payment!

 Your process is even more detailed than my first effort, so you are ahead of the learning curve and advancing the state of the art.  Carry on valiantly.

Mike  LCCA 12394
(ritrainguy)

Alternately, I believe you could use vinyl gutters to soak the track.

Best regards

LA

LA:

A creative use of a vinyl gutter!  A great example of imagineering.

Mike
(ritrainguy)

Is there any concern about the integrity of the paper insulators between the center rail and the track ties?  The paper is a fairly porous material and is usually treated with wax-like elements to counter the hygroscopic nature of the paper.  It may trap some conductive components of the Evap-O-Rust (hereafter known as EOR) material.  I think I would want to bake the track after treatment or set it out in the summer sun for a few days to try and solidify any conductive components of the EOR product.   Not sure that would totally solve the problem in a humid environment.

AUSSTEVE:

"Solar powered baking" probably would be a benefit to the center rail insulators.  Can't hurt.

Mike
(ritrainguy)

Tubular track is my favorite for O-gauge because it's cheap, reliable, durable, great conductivity, traditional, different curve radii, etc. I've acquired a good stock of old track from train shows and misc sales. The only problem for me, O72 switches are somewhat expensive and less available. I've cut down a number of old O22 switches to a 30° arc on the curved leg, which is more useful for many situations.

Some of my old track was quite rusty but it cleans up OK. Usually I just clean the top surface of the rail with a big wire wheel on a bench grinder, and gently ream out the rail ends with a drill bit. Sometimes I pull all the pins and clean them with the wire wheel. If I have any conductivity issues after the track is in place I solder jumpers across the joints on the base of the rail. I have a couple of mainline circuits 90 feet around the room with track feeders in only one place, and minimal voltage drop.

I would be wary of any kind of soaking process to clean old track - it can't be good for the center-rail insulators.

Re: removing rust with Evap O Rust, I used a similar product called Metal Rescue: Rust Remover Bath from Home Depot.  Soaked tracks overnight with pins removed and also soaked.  No problem with center rail insulator.   With prolonged soaking, will remove "bluing" from black ties.  Was pleased with outcome.

Michael

I see where Menard's sells new metal track though I do not know if it is a Lionel brand or a knock off.

Our LHS (Orange Grove Hobby) in Gulfport still sells the Lionel brand.  Gulfport, Ms.

Bernard:

I noticed that Menard's also offers custom-painted, limited-run Lionel products with the Menard's logo on them for hobbyists. Another reason for O-gaugers to patronize Menard's stores, and a form of advertising for the store.  I live in Arkansas, and there aren't Menard's stores here -- yet. Perhaps because WALMART is based here and keeps competitors (including COSTCO) out.

BTW, the LIONEL name is stamped into every crosstie of O-gauge track made by the company.  Look closely at the track offered by Menard for the name -- or not.

Mike
(ritrainguy)

Michael

Thanks for sharing the tip about METAL RESCUE.  Your experience with that product  is consistent with my use of Evap-O-Rust.

Mike
(ritrainguy)