Lionel Vision Line CC2S Chuff sound skipping regulary

It is most likely the chuff cherry switch is my thought.  It's either bent a bit and not reliably making good contact or going bad.  It is what triggers the chuff.

Great..! Marty could you give me some insight to where I might find this switch on the CC2S?

Regards

John

TrainDepot5344 posted:

Great..! Marty could you give me some insight to where I might find this switch on the CC2S?

Regards

John

 

From the parts page it looks like the second drive axle has the cam on it to trigger the switch.  Perhaps one of the folks like @Alex M or @Marty Fitzhenry can confirm.  This will most likely require a bit of disassembly to get to the switch. 

Here is the 2nd axle from the Lionel parts page.  Note the CAM.

WOW......! Awesome I will check into it tonight.

Thank you

Regards

John

There's a lot of disassembly to get to the chuff switch on many of these, and the CC2 is no exception!   Be careful taking the shell of that one, it's pretty busy inside!  The newer Vision Line locomotives have a much cleaner interior and are a lot easier to work on.

You have to drop the front truck to extract the switch. That involves removing the shell and usually moving stuff out of the way to get to all the wiring and screws.

Usually, a simple forming of the contact lever returns it to normal operation, occasionally you need a new switch.  You can check the operation with a meter while you have the truck off before you stick it back on.  The ones like the CC2 with the 4 lobe cam are trickier to get adjusted properly as the switch travel isn't as great as the two lobe cam models from the TMCC era.

Your advise is taken, I will try adjusting the tab first.

Regards

Insure you test it well with the ohmmeter before assembling as it's somewhat of a PITA to put them together and find the fix didn't work.   Don't ask me how I know this.

Hello I just got off the phone with Lionel service and they will not be taking any non warranty service until after March 2019 So I ordered the parts and was wondering if any one has the service or assembly manual for this engine so I could study it, and could send me a link or a copy please.

Regards

John

TrainDepot5344 posted:

Hello I just got off the phone with Lionel service and they will not be taking any non warranty service until after March 2019 So I ordered the parts and was wondering if any one has the service or assembly manual for this engine so I could study it, and could send me a link or a copy please.

You must have been a comedian in a former life!   Don't we wish such things existed for modern stuff!

You just follow your nose and keep taking screws out.  OK, I'm being facetious now, but for most of us, we learn this stuff by doing it.  I'm sure such documentation exists, but I sure don't know where you get your hands on it.  The CC2S just happens to be a bit more complicated than many steamers to work on, primarily because they stuffed so much stuff in there, and they're using the older Legacy technology.  The best pictures I know of are just what you find on the Lionel 6-11154 CC2S Parts Pages.

Roger that Gunrunner I cut my teeth on IBM selectric typewriters and adding machines.....🙃 No documents on that crud either! Just double checking to see if someone had a copy from a previous life😎

Regards

John

My previous life was aerospace, and I didn't have any Lionel documentation available.   Now, if you want to know how the fuel system on the X-47 UCAV works, I'm your man.

Gunrunnerjohn & Martye

Update on the repair of the chuff switch, forming the lever did the trick, after several tries it worked. I carefully removed the 2nd axle with the cam and accessed the lever. During the learning process I didn't notice the offset on the axle bearing, and locked up the drive which in turn caused the flywheel to come loose.... So off with the shell and tighten flywheel... and you are very correct the mess of wires is very unruly, on my second attempt the shell seated correctly. My greatest fear was damaging something electronic, and after some testing, all seems in working order. Thank You both for your insight.

Regards

John

Here are some photos of the repair.

Hmm, I picked up a couple of Atlantic legacy E6's with various issue. I had one with skipping chuff where the micro switch adjustment or change didn't matter. I had a conversation with Mike Regan at  York. He was claiming that on the E6 Legacy that only the first chuff was the microswitch. That every chuff after that was generated on the motor speed controller board?

I never heard of that before, and the other early Legacy locomotives with a chuff switch certainly get all their chuffs from the chuff switch.  Not to contradict Mike, but I believe he may be mistaken on this point.  The 6-11224 E6 with whistle steam is one I had to fix the chuff switch on, and I can assure you all the chuffs originated from that switch.  It's also one of the most crowded shells I've had to work on, the addition of whistle steam, etc. make that a nightmare to work on and to dress the wires again to get it closed up.

I just got through repairing a Legacy American Flyer Challenger. For the same problem of skipping chuffs. And to replace the chuff switch. They don't last forever and wear out. It is true, the micro switch starts the first chuff, and the other 3 chuffs fallow automatically. The switch is closed once and chuff, chuff, chuff, CHUFF. It does take careful adjusting with 4 lobe cams. So at least some Legacy engines use this method.

Chuck, your statement makes no sense, certainly not for any of the boards I've tested.  I just tested the RailSounds 5.5 SP Daylight Legacy board, one chuff switch closure, one chuff.  There are no generated chuffs.  For articulated boards, you do get the double chuff as speeds change, that's a different thing, and it's only one.  Here's the Daylight board on my test board.

I observed what Chuck is referring to during the testing and repair of the CC2s. One click of the micro switch gave 4 chuffs. When the flywheel was loose I pushed the unit to move it forward thinking it would work it self out. I thought it was odd when I heard the extra chuffs, but then when I read the post it seemed to make sense, maybe it starts the sequence then if you back down on the throttle or stop it slows or cuts off the left over chuffs.

What can I say, I've never observed this.  Note that the CC2s is an articulated locomotive, so it will get one extra chuff for each chuff switch closure, but not three.  At least I've never observed that with any modular RailSounds board, or the newer single board Railsounds Lite board.  I didn't actually try a board from the CC2s, don't feel like taking the tender apart.   I have done this with RS4 articulated boards, one extra chuff for the extra set of cylinders.

Maybe, Mike Reagan will chime in!

shawn posted:

Maybe, Mike Reagan will chime in!

Maybe, but that won't change what I can test and observe on my bench.

Maybe the 6.0 railsounds platform operates different than the 5. series as far a chuff is concerned.

shawn posted:

Hmm, I picked up a couple of Atlantic legacy E6's with various issue. I had one with skipping chuff where the micro switch adjustment or change didn't matter. I had a conversation with Mike Regan at  York. He was claiming that on the E6 Legacy that only the first chuff was the microswitch. That every chuff after that was generated on the motor speed controller board?

Mike is correct.  I do not recall what loco/PCB combinations had regenerated chuffs; mostly pre-RCMC product.  But indeed it worked as Mike R stated, with the first chuff of the 4 cadence being triggered by the switch; and the next 3 electronically generated..

The skipping chuff cadence sounded like 1234 skip 1234 skip 12345678 skip it did this consistently. This was the clue that the issue was mechanical not dirty contacts. When the flywheel was loose, the electronics was not getting and feedback from the motor encoder correctly so the first chuff happened then the next three happened really fast. I imagined I must have really screwed something up!  

I tested several RS4 steam, one RS5 steam, and a RS5.5 steam, none of them had any extra chuffs from the switch except the RS4 articulated.  The articulated RS4 had one extra chuff for the articulated sounds, but that was it.

Obviously, I can't see none of them have such a feature, but it's sure not universal.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I tested several RS4 steam, one RS5 steam, and a RS5.5 steam, none of them had any extra chuffs from the switch except the RS4 articulated.  The articulated RS4 had one extra chuff for the articulated sounds, but that was it.

Obviously, I can't see none of them have such a feature, but it's sure not universal.

As I recall, DCDS / RS5.5 & RS6.0 all worked with regenerated chuffing.   

Jon, I tried the Polar Express RS 5.5 board, that doesn't have any extra chuffs, one chuff for each switch closure.  It's the only RS 5.5 board I have without taking apart a locomotive, but it's a sample of one.

It's actually the one in my short video, I mistakenly called it the Daylight board, but I had already put that one into a locomotive.