I like the new site. They went with a Responsive Design, which is what all sites are doing these days. I believe it was developed with JQuery and Backbone. These are two common web development technologies. Unfortunately, it's hard to pull off a good RD that works well on all operating systems. Organizations such as Lionel do not have the resources and bandwidth to be as proficient as CNN. There will be bugs!
It seems to me that the designers of the Trainz DASH Marketplace web site have found a new honme at Lionel...
Lionel's new web site rivals that of DASH now - can't find anything, poor presentation and slower than molasses at the north pole!!!
Just my 2 cents worth.
Best,
Dave
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Terrible design. Whoever laid this out has a major disconnect with the user audience. While the initial graphics are pretty & refreshing, the usability of this site, especially on a mobile device like an iPad (which is all I've used so far), is terrible.
Time to scrap this design and hit the reset button. But no need to completely reinvent the wheel here. There are lots of examples of existing sites with well laid-out designs. This just isn't one of them. David
I agree!
I looked up Grand Trunk Western. The SD40 #5922 was listed in the first section of the products and the 5927 was listed in the second page of the GTW products. I wonder if that means that one is more important than the other. Will the #5922 be the only one produced? I have to get both of the GTW SD40s eventually.
Andrew
The website works well on a desktop personal computer with a large video screen and a trackball with a roller that can scroll the pages.
Andrew
Website design is okay... but where do you look at the catalogs?
Go to products and then catalogs...
The more I navigate the better it feels. It may not be what it was but with constructive criticism they could probably tweak it and make it easier to use. I think 50% of the issues is "it's not the way it used to be" mentality. Not that that's a bad thing but it is pretty drastically different.
Originally Posted by Tim Lewis:
Website design is okay... but where do you look at the catalogs?
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Originally Posted by Tim Lewis:
Website design is okay... but where do you look at the catalogs?
Originally Posted by RadioRon:
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Terrible design. Whoever laid this out has a major disconnect with the user audience. While the initial graphics are pretty & refreshing, the usability of this site, especially on a mobile device like an iPad (which is all I've used so far), is terrible.
Time to scrap this design and hit the reset button. But no need to completely reinvent the wheel here. There are lots of examples of existing sites with well laid-out designs. This just isn't one of them. David
I agree!
if you are over 25 in age you are not the demographic Lionel is after IMO!
This may have been covered previously (I just noticed this thread) but I eventually gave up looking for the old 'Product Locator' function trying to find the stock number of a Mikado I have...
Legacy System Utility can not find.
Track & Power > Learn More About Legacy goes to LSU page link.
OK, I tried it.
1 - the important part to me - replacement parts - seems intact from the old website.
2 - slow, but a lot of us are probably poking at it.
3 - the design is not to my liking, but most super-consumer (hobby stuff, automobiles) websites that I visit (as seldom as possible) are also tedious, fussy and full of graphics and low on content.
4 - no, I don't like the "new design", but I will seldom use it; what I fear is that the adult and rational parts ordering procedure will be infected by "design" in the future.
5 - "kids" may like it, but since when is the market for this stuff "kids"?
6 - on #3, above - I was looking at an automobile manufacturer's site the other day, researching a model that interests me. I care nothing about Wi-Fi or Blue Teeth or Black Eyes or whatever - I'm interested in handling, power, transmissions - y'know, what makes a car a car.
Went to Engine Options. Nowhere on this website is there any information on the horsepower of their engines in this model. Connectivity? Sure, whatever that is.
I de-listed the car from my "Future Maybe" list.
This is what I fear from Lionel, one day - pretty colors, no meat.
Originally Posted by c.sam:
This may have been covered previously (I just noticed this thread) but I eventually gave up looking for the old 'Product Locator' function trying to find the stock number of a Mikado I have...
The old style product locator was functioning on the lionelsupport.com website last night, but now it just redirects to the new search.
if you are over 25 in age you are not the demographic Lionel is after IMO!
Yeah, the people that don't have the "disposable income," or would rather buy the next I-phone.
Rusty
Originally Posted by bigdodgetrain:
if you are over 25 in age you are not the demographic Lionel is after IMO!
Oh really? Who is buying Lionel's $500, $750, $1,200+ locomotives then? Few to no 23-year-olds.
Originally Posted by RadioRon:
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Terrible design. Whoever laid this out has a major disconnect with the user audience. While the initial graphics are pretty & refreshing, the usability of this site, especially on a mobile device like an iPad (which is all I've used so far), is terrible.
Time to scrap this design and hit the reset button. But no need to completely reinvent the wheel here. There are lots of examples of existing sites with well laid-out designs. This just isn't one of them. David
I agree!
I agree also. Frankly, I was OK with the previous site.
Originally Posted by Panther97:
I like the new site. They went with a Responsive Design, which is what all sites are doing these days. I believe it was developed with JQuery and Backbone. These are two common web development technologies. Unfortunately, it's hard to pull off a good RD that works well on all operating systems. Organizations such as Lionel do not have the resources and bandwidth to be as proficient as CNN. There will be bugs!
What the hockey sticks is a "Responsive Design". More buzz words? Great that's all that I need. I'm reserving my final thoughts but so far its pretty but not very functional. Is that what a "Responsive Design" means?
Is there anything you all won't pick apart?
If you have trouble navigating the new website, you need to rethink your online presence.
I immediately found everything I could think of. It follows most of today's conventions of where certain things go. It works just fine across my devices whether MacBook Pro or iPad. Even an old PC using IE...
Seriously, it's okay to go with the flow and embrace where technology leads us.
No, I'm not a young whippersnapper. (well maybe, considering what I think the average age is here on OGR forum 
).
Heck, I emailed my 77 year old dad telling him to check out the new site and some of the cool stuff Lionel is doing. He had no issues. I thought the old site was clunky and didn't flow very well on modern interfaces. The new site seems intuitive and actually keeps me on it longer.
It's okay to upgrade from your Windows 286 machine [/sarcasm]
Originally Posted by Winston:
Originally Posted by Panther97:
I like the new site. They went with a Responsive Design, which is what all sites are doing these days. I believe it was developed with JQuery and Backbone. These are two common web development technologies. Unfortunately, it's hard to pull off a good RD that works well on all operating systems. Organizations such as Lionel do not have the resources and bandwidth to be as proficient as CNN. There will be bugs!
What the hockey sticks is a "Responsive Design". More buzz words? Great that's all that I need. I'm reserving my final thoughts but so far its pretty but not very functional. Is that what a "Responsive Design" means?
No, responsive design is the website expanding and shrinking to different types of devices, so the for example the website will be larger on your computer vs. your smartphone or tablet. The whole premise of it is, so web developers don't have to create apps for people to view the site on their mobile devices, which means less to maintain. I am hobby web developer and love responsive design. It makes so much sense and allows people to view my sites while they are on the road or at home.
Back to Lionels website....I have to agree with most that the layout content is not very well laid out and the navigation is confusing. Maybe the web developers were pushed this or went with nice pretty graphics instead of a good user interface (ui). Besides the fact the content could be better laid out and have better navigation, I think Lionel needed to do this, there old website did meet the new design requirements (responsive design) for the internet. I know a couple weeks ago I tried to register a product and could not do it on my iPad, because there site was "old school".
One thing that also has to be understand is that Lionel is not going to set a site up like CNN or any other news site. Those sites are setup for what they are for, NEWS! Lionel's website should be built for their demographic and that is O scale trains! I can go on and describe how I would build the site, but that would take a lot of typing.
Just give it time and I am sure the site will become better and people will get use to it.
Chris
As I think of this more. I think that Lionel should incorporate their products pages with parts, videos, tutorials, related items, etc. This would make it so much easier than having to look 5 different places for something. If you wanted to buy a particular part then you would be redirected to where you could be purchase the part or they could have a shop cart for the whole site. This would make it much easier for the end user.
I know if I was designing the site this is what I would suggest. Also, they have two many sites that are different. For example for LCS. That should be incorporated into their main site as a page of information where it would have links for the different modules, which redirect to the product page as mentioned above. It seems they have too much going on for their websites. They need to create one site for everything.
I also forget to comment on this statement:
Originally Posted by Panther97:
I like the new site. They went with a Responsive Design, which is what all sites are doing these days. I believe it was developed with JQuery and Backbone. These are two common web development technologies. Unfortunately, it's hard to pull off a good RD that works well on all operating systems. Organizations such as Lionel do not have the resources and bandwidth to be as proficient as CNN. There will be bugs!
Yes, they are using JQuery, but not Backbone. They are using a modified version of Twitter Bootstrap.
Chris
Originally Posted by crood58:
...
One thing that also has to be understand is that Lionel is not going to set a site up like CNN or any other news site. Those sites are setup for what they are for, NEWS! Lionel's website should be built for their demographic and that is O scale trains! ....
Just to clarify... my reference to CNN and USA Today websites was not to imply Lionel should copy them verbatim. Rather those types of sites do TWO things (among other things) very well: (1) they exploit grid technologies that allow visitors to efficiently "see" several areas of interest in one view and then delve deeper as needed, and (2) the sites "look good" on desktop as well as mobile platforms.
Beyond those qualities, I agree... Lionel should design a site that caters to its own demographic audience(s)... young and old alike -- if that's possible.
David
Originally Posted by crood58:
As I think of this more. I think that Lionel should incorporate their products pages with parts, videos, tutorials, related items, etc. This would make it so much easier than having to look 5 different places for something. If you wanted to buy a particular part then you would be redirected to where you could be purchase the part or they could have a shop cart for the whole site. This would make it much easier for the end user.
I know if I was designing the site this is what I would suggest. Also, they have two many sites that are different. For example for LCS. That should be incorporated into their main site as a page of information where it would have links for the different modules, which redirect to the product page as mentioned above. It seems they have too much going on for their websites. They need to create one site for everything.
I also forget to comment on this statement:
Originally Posted by Panther97:
I like the new site. They went with a Responsive Design, which is what all sites are doing these days. I believe it was developed with JQuery and Backbone. These are two common web development technologies. Unfortunately, it's hard to pull off a good RD that works well on all operating systems. Organizations such as Lionel do not have the resources and bandwidth to be as proficient as CNN. There will be bugs!
Yes, they are using JQuery, but not Backbone. They are using a modified version of Twitter Bootstrap.
Chris
Crood58, I meant to type Bootstrap!!!! LOL. We use Backbone at work. That was a slip!!!! Good catch.
To read the replies I am just rolling... the day we lose our flexibility to adapt to something new is the day we are too old to grasp the fun in life...
I came in to work today and 3 older gentlemen (about my age) were stuck on the other side of the electronic turnstile, one was looking how to swipe his badge, the other was yelling at the security guard on the loud speaker and the other telling the man with the badge what to do with his hands on hips (obviously a manager). They were there 15 minutes! If there was a fire we all would have died....
Then a 22 year old kid came up and said you have to lay the badge on top of the reader.... presto...they were all in motion...
So when I read this thread I just fell off my chair! 
Originally Posted by Rocky Mountaineer:
Originally Posted by crood58:
...
One thing that also has to be understand is that Lionel is not going to set a site up like CNN or any other news site. Those sites are setup for what they are for, NEWS! Lionel's website should be built for their demographic and that is O scale trains! ....
Just to clarify... my reference to CNN and USA Today websites was not to imply Lionel should copy them verbatim. Rather those types of sites do TWO things (among other things) very well: (1) they exploit grid technologies that allow visitors to efficiently "see" several areas of interest in one view and then delve deeper as needed, and (2) the sites "look good" on desktop as well as mobile platforms.
Beyond those qualities, I agree... Lionel should design a site that caters to its own demographic audience(s)... young and old alike -- if that's possible.
David
David,
Lionel's website is using grid technology, technically. They are using a modified version of bootstrap form what I can tell. Also, they already have the mobile and pc part taken care of, since the are using responsive web design. I have no idea what CNN uses, but Twitter Bootstrap is probably the most popular boiler plates for responsive web design.
Chris
Originally Posted by Panther97:
Originally Posted by crood58:
As I think of this more. I think that Lionel should incorporate their products pages with parts, videos, tutorials, related items, etc. This would make it so much easier than having to look 5 different places for something. If you wanted to buy a particular part then you would be redirected to where you could be purchase the part or they could have a shop cart for the whole site. This would make it much easier for the end user.
I know if I was designing the site this is what I would suggest. Also, they have two many sites that are different. For example for LCS. That should be incorporated into their main site as a page of information where it would have links for the different modules, which redirect to the product page as mentioned above. It seems they have too much going on for their websites. They need to create one site for everything.
I also forget to comment on this statement:
Originally Posted by Panther97:
I like the new site. They went with a Responsive Design, which is what all sites are doing these days. I believe it was developed with JQuery and Backbone. These are two common web development technologies. Unfortunately, it's hard to pull off a good RD that works well on all operating systems. Organizations such as Lionel do not have the resources and bandwidth to be as proficient as CNN. There will be bugs!
Yes, they are using JQuery, but not Backbone. They are using a modified version of Twitter Bootstrap.
Chris
Crood58, I meant to type Bootstrap!!!! LOL. We use Backbone at work. That was a slip!!!! Good catch.
We all make mistakes! It happens! 
Chris
Originally Posted by RadioRon:
Originally Posted by bigdodgetrain:
if you are over 25 in age you are not the demographic Lionel is after IMO!
Oh really? Who is buying Lionel's $500, $750, $1,200+ locomotives then? Few to no 23-year-olds.
does not matter who can afford the product!
there are plenty of items that the youth can afford.
with out getting the youth involved the entire hobby will collapse.
do you want that?
If your are having a hard time finding the catalogs - just type.........
Gary
• Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway
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Originally Posted by EscapeRocks:
Is there anything you all won't pick apart?
If you have trouble navigating the new website, you need to rethink your online presence.
I immediately found everything I could think of. It follows most of today's conventions of where certain things go. It works just fine across my devices whether MacBook Pro or iPad. Even an old PC using IE...
...
And there you have it. The only thing "virtual communities" are guaranteed to deliver nowadays: conflicting information to the point that casual observers wouldn't know what's real and what's misinformation for them. 
It's like reading product reviews online... 20 people rate something 1 star, then there are 3 folks rating it 5 stars. Nothing in between. How can the same product be both terrible for most yet absolutely fantastic to some? 
In all likelihood, it's one or the other for most folks... rendering the process of reading the reviews almost a waste of time.
Best advice... Try the new site yourself and be your own judge. When I finally tried the new site on my desktop with 30" display, the experience was night-and-day different than on an iPad. The two experiences weren't even close. Neither were terrific, but the iPad experience was downright miserable. And that has nothing to do with anything but where the rubber meets the road... and certainly nothing to do with "rethinking my online presence". Heck, I don't even know what that means. But it didn't sound like a complement. 
David
Personally I didn't find it all too hard on either. But your mileage may vary. The more I use the better I can navigate. I suspect with some tweaks it should be fine for most.
Originally Posted by bigdodgetrain:
Originally Posted by RadioRon:
Originally Posted by bigdodgetrain:
if you are over 25 in age you are not the demographic Lionel is after IMO!
Oh really? Who is buying Lionel's $500, $750, $1,200+ locomotives then? Few to no 23-year-olds.
does not matter who can afford the product!
there are plenty of items that the youth can afford.
with out getting the youth involved the entire hobby will collapse.
do you want that?
Based on what I saw at TCA last year....they better get some youth involved. I saw my kids and 2/3 other children. Lots of 40+ dudes.
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks:
It's okay to upgrade from your Windows 286 machine [/sarcasm]
I'm still using a teletype...
Rusty
Rusty
From where I sit, 40 is a whippersnapper.
It's been a long week and I'm a bit tired and grumpy, but being an IT guy I can't comprehend why they can't get "search" right. I just searched for "Steam Locomotive" (without quotes) and 6 of the results on the first page are diesels... Search for "Steam Switcher" and 2 of the results are diesels...
They will also need to figure out how to deal with "link rot" better. MTH dealt with this shortly after their redesign (it took a few days), they figured out that people and search engines had bookmarks pointing to old pages and MTH automatically routed them to new pages.
Example, this old lionel.com link:
https://www.lionel.com/Product...roductNumber=6-11110
Needs to route to this new link:
http://www.lionel.com/products...rd-goat-7745-6-28080
I kinda liked the format of the old links as well, you just dropped the item# into the end of the link and you'd get the product info page, simple and nice.
The "Imagineering" stuff looks good, I guess it's replacing the Lionel Little Lines stuff which my daughter has and uses all the time, which is OK I guess since I'm getting her into O Gauge anyway!
Overall I'm glad they are doing something, and I'm glad they are still keeping the Tracks page interesting, I just wish they could get some of the fundamentals taken care of. I still wonder why they never get nostalgic and put articles/posts up their with their old products, I guess it's because they just plain don't sell that stuff anymore.
I'll stop nitpicking now, I hope everyone has a nice weekend...Rich
p.s. the "most recent catalog" link on the "product info" page isn't a link, ...argh...
I see there is quite a buzz about the new Lionel Website. I have navigated it this evening. It is different I'll say that.
Some forum members embrace the change while others pine for the previous.
I suppose it's a lot to do with what we're accustomed to. Like my lawnmower that will only start if I press the priming bulb 4 times. Not 3 or 5, just 4.
The old site wasn't without it's idiosyncrasies and I'm sure the new site will have its share.
What I do find comforting is knowing this forum is here.
A place where I can find the help I need to guide me through things like a new Lionel site, an old parts question, or learn about wire gauge and amperage so I don't set my house ablaze.
For that I am truly thankful.
Can't wait for the new Catalog.
Originally Posted by ed h:
Originally Posted by c.sam:
This may have been covered previously (I just noticed this thread) but I eventually gave up looking for the old 'Product Locator' function trying to find the stock number of a Mikado I have...
The old style product locator was functioning on the lionelsupport.com website last night, but now it just redirects to the new search.
The old link allowed me to find replacement parts. Now that its been redirected where do you find the links for parts?
edit, OK it appears lionelsupport.com gets you to old parts lookup page, at least for now.
Pete
imo lionel made a big error when they did not make old links send you to the new section.
I'm sorry to add one to the "liked it much better the old way" tally. (I hated CNN and Fox News changes also, BTW, when they made their most recent format changes as well, I think right around the start of this year).
I also went through the exercise of using a general internet search to find something. the link provided made me say "yes, that's the page on Lionel.com that I am looking for", but then the Link tells me "I must have gotten lost" (or whatever the error message is). Google and other search engines will eventually adapt, I suppose, but not today.
As to the new content, whomever was in charge of that, there are certainly at least a few issues. I saw the following and said "huh?!". I suspect they meant to put Conventional Classics in the 2007 spot, not Post War Celebration(though I don't remember the exact first year for CC, I certainly know PWC was way before 2007). I know its a nit, but it's silly. (It's also not even named properly - whomever made the copy obviously read the logo from top to bottom. I'm surprised it's not referred to as"Celebration Lionel Postwar Series Legendary" in the text)
-Dave
I like the way it looks but I hate the way it feels. It doesn't work very well for me, I hate the shop now options everywhere
The break through in internet web design was the side bar it made navigation simple and easy. Add some drop down lists and presto easy site navigation. Now with what i will call flash, java, mini application and, more pictures addiction this has fallen by the wayside, with pictures, spattered links about the page. more images, but overall less content and more complicated navigation.
I have noticed many websites slowly fall to this Lionel is one more, I am still waiting for them to fix the bugs of the shopping site, so many bugs in product descriptions I don't look at it any more. It will not be long and their mobile page will become to cluttered with unseen extras it will quit working on the mobile devices I own. The old one worked great, it will probably not even load now from being too big and too cluttered. Like many other websites, new deign, but not very straight forward, or organized. I am getting really tired of what I call menuitus, or this innovative, but hu? why? you don't have to change for the sake of change layouts. I still remember taking webdesign in school, it was all about easy to find, simple layout, few links as possible, straight forward, and make it as data small as possible. I really don't see that any more. The old site needed a face lift no arguments there. i like the new look, but the organization is terrible. I love the images, but needing a gamer/photo editing/video editing rig (really high end PC) to use the internet and have websites be stable is getting old on me fast. For some reason I get tired of having to relearn to ride a bike over and over and over again. Sigh, I have seen far worse, but it is getting tiresome. Art is great, imagination is great, all needed, but websites are about business, and need to be accordingly organized, straightforward, and concise and to the point. As for personal for fun page have at it!
Sorry my post went into webdesign in general, I could not think of a more effective way to explain my opinion.
P.S. I really like how this forum is setup, a bit complicated, but very much to the point.
