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I have an MTH Amtrak Dash-8 Diesel Engine with PS-2. I don't know the engine model number but it has PROTO-SOUND TOP BOARD
MTH P/N AE-4500001 & PROTO-SOUND BOTTOM BOARD MTH P/N AD-4500001. The sound works fine when connected directly to a transformer but when I put it on my layout which is powered by a postwar ZW to a Cab1L with a powermaster bridge to a tmcc powermaster the engine runs fine but the sound doesn't work. Does anyone have an idea as to why this happens? Do you think if I switch the powermaster to a TPC 300 it would correct the problem.


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@Pup posted:

Do you think if I switch the powermaster to a TPC 300 it would correct the problem.

Those are Protosounds ONE boards and will not work with anything other than straight wave form AC.



Unfortunately- the devices you are asking about- ALL Powermasters- yes ALL versions (both Legacy and TMCC earlier versions), the TPC series 300 and 400, and every single one of Lionel electronics transformers (CW80, GW180, ZW-C, ZW-L) output a form of chopped wave.

This is the limitation of those early PS-1 engines, they were trying to add advanced function (sounds and special conventional advanced controls) in an early time era (late 1990s early 2000) when a lot of folks still had non-electronic transformers like a postwar ZW. They simply do not like the distorted waveform of the electronic controlled output chopped up with Thyristor technology of the time.

In fact, the list of incompatible goes way beyond just Lionel electronic transformers- other ones like a K-line Powerchief would be incompatible, some of the MRC electronic transformers aimed at O gauge, heck even MTH's own devices- say the earlier Z500 and Z-750 used Thyristors and are not a clean waveform- thus potentially incompatible.

@Chuck Sartor, and @Vernon Barry,

I thank both of you for your input, not only here but in so many other threads over the years.  You're generally right on track with your observations.

However ...

You're generalizations are dead wrong here.

I've spent years playing around with various vintages of PS-1 engines and transformers.  What I've found is that the TPC's, but more specifically because of upgraded software and a small hardware change, the Lionel versions of the TPC's work better than anything else with PS-1's, including good old-fashioned transformers putting out undistorted sine waves.

All PS-1's are finicky, mostly when trying to get them to go forward out of the initial RESET state that they're in when power is first applied.  Sound is next in line as far as challenges go.

Some of us were lucky enough to have Lou Kovach, original designer of the TPC's and founder of their original manufacturer, IC Controls, update our TPC software to the latest version, after Lionel had bought the line from him and began offering them under their name and with Lionel product numbers (6-14189 for instance).

These, both updated IC Controls models and the follow-up Lionel models, have an extra set of commands, i.e. button pushes, that are optimized to operating PS-1's.  In spite of the fact that they put out modified sine waves even to this day, they still do a very good job when running PS-1's.

@Pup, If I were you I'd get a hold of a Lionel 6-14189 TPC and try it.

Mike

Last edited by Mellow Hudson Mike

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