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Bkgnd:  Will run Legacy / TMCC/ Conventional.  36 Ross switches w mostly Dz1000's (some Dz2500's).  All switches will be powered by a dedicated power source. Want to control (throw) switches from: 1) the control panel, 2) at the fascia (using the Ross push button controller Dz1002, and 3) from the cab 2.   At the control panel we want to use 2-color (red / green Leds on the rocker switch itself).  We want both the switch position indicator LEDs to agree - at the control panel and at the fascia whenever a switch is thrown.  We prefer to use rocker switches.  Toggle to right - str & gr light: toggle to left - divergent & red light.

I know very very little about electronics

Question:   1)  what type of rocker switch would be best:  SPST, SPDT, DPST, or DPDT?

2) do we need a momentary switch - if so, what kind -  like mom-off-mom?

2)  What rating/s ranges for the switches are acceptable?      ? Vdc  and ? amps

3) Where is a good source to purchase

Really appreciate the help,

Tom & Matt

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@TomSuperO posted:

Bkgnd:  Will run Legacy / TMCC/ Conventional.  36 Ross switches w mostly Dz1000's (some Dz2500's).  All switches will be powered by a dedicated power source. Want to control (throw) switches from: 1) the control panel, 2) at the fascia (using the Ross push button controller Dz1002, and 3) from the cab 2.   At the control panel we want to use 2-color (red / green Leds on the rocker switch itself).  We want both the switch position indicator LEDs to agree - at the control panel and at the fascia whenever a switch is thrown.  We prefer to use rocker switches.  Toggle to right - str & gr light: toggle to left - divergent & red light.

I know very very little about electronics

Question:   1)  what type of rocker switch would be best:  SPST, SPDT, DPST, or DPDT?

2a) do we need a momentary switch - if so, what kind -  like mom-off-mom?

2b)  What rating/s ranges for the switches are acceptable?      ? Vdc  and ? amps

3) Where is a good source to purchase

Really appreciate the help,

Tom & Matt

Answers to numbered questions:

1) SPDT

2a) Momentary; on-off-on

2b) 12 Volt or higher, 1 Amp or greater

3) Many good options: Digi-key, Mouser, Amazon, AliExpress, etc.  Suggest searching "12V 1A momentary SPDT rocker".

Additionally, for the control and status display arrangement you want with Z-Stuff Switch machines, you'll need some additional components.  More information about this can be found in this topic by @Rod Stewart  - link here>  Led Turnout Position Indicator for Control Panel Mounting

Ditto what Steve said above.

Momentary mini SPDT toggles are best for mounting right on your panel because they are nice and small.

I recently helped a gentleman with developing a small pcb which mounts a red and green led that can be located right at your switch on your panel trackplan. These were developed and test specifically for use with DZ-1000 operated switches. He just recieved the boards I sent him earlier this month and I don't think he has got any mounted yet. So I don't have any pictures to show you. If this is of interest I can send some pictures of the boards.

Rod

Steve, Rod,   Thank you guys so much. Really appreciate the response to my questions.  While i would prefer to use red / gr rocker switches on the main control panel, I can see where mini toggles w 2 small LEDs will take up a lot less space and simpler to mount. Rockers would require a rectangular hole in the lexan. Much easier to drill a small round hole.  Steve, thank you for the recommended specs and link. Rod, i may be contacting you about the boards.   I can open the pdfs but can't open the gerber zip files.

So next question if using SPDT toggle at main control panel is:  what would the wiring diagram look like to wire the sPDT to the switch motor and also to the controller at the fascia.  Are there any other electronics needed in the wiring run for each switch - ie diodes, resistors, ???

Thank You, Tom

@TomSuperO posted:

Steve, Rod,   Thank you guys so much. Really appreciate the response to my questions.  While i would prefer to use red / gr rocker switches on the main control panel, I can see where mini toggles w 2 small LEDs will take up a lot less space and simpler to mount. Rockers would require a rectangular hole in the lexan. Much easier to drill a small round hole.  Steve, thank you for the recommended specs and link. Rod, i may be contacting you about the boards.   I can open the pdfs but can't open the gerber zip files.

So next question if using SPDT toggle at main control panel is:  what would the wiring diagram look like to wire the sPDT to the switch motor and also to the controller at the fascia.  Are there any other electronics needed in the wiring run for each switch - ie diodes, resistors, ???

Thank You, Tom

Tom, the gerber zip files can only be read by pcb manufacturing software, as used by the board houses. I posted them for those who would want to order their own boards from the likes of OSHPark in Oregon, or any of the many Asian shops.

I have not tested the boards in tandem with the DZ-1002 remotes, but they should work fine wired in parallel with them as well as the momentary toggle switches. You will need a 3 wire run from each switch back to the toggle/indicator board mounted at your panel. Then you will also need a 3 wire run from each facia mounted DZ-1002, either to the switch, or back to the panel, whichever is shorter.

The power is only a few milliamps for each, so the wiring can be light; #26 should be adequate. My thinking is that with 37 switches you are going to have a huge mess of wires running here and there to get it all hooked up. You may want to consider using something like Cat 5, 8-conductor internet wiring, at least for the long runs, just to minimize the chaos a little. Or there is #28 multi-color ribbon cable which is sold by the meter with up to 40 wires. So you can just tear off 3, 6, 9 etc. wires at a time for each run as needed.

You will also probably want multi-gang terminal blocks at your panel, maybe something like small euro terminals, which handle smaller wires nicely. They come in 12-gang blocks so one block will work for 4 switches. And they are easily cut with a knife to give you whatever number you need.

Some thoughts for you to process!

Rod

Not to be picky, but rocker switches technically don't 'toggle', they rock one way or the other.  Toggles have a bat handle, rockers a plastic lever you push on either top/bottom or right/left depending on orientation.  They come in all contact configurations, but it sounds like you need a spring loaded center off toggle, or a pair of momentary push buttons.  I have found a rocker switch to fail at higher rates than others, many times breaking at the pivot rod. While I do buy stuff from the electronic parts houses, I have found Amazon to offer a good selection and the shipping is much cheaper than the parts houses that seem fixated at $9.50 USPS shipping, plus Amazon gets them on the way to you more quickly.

Last edited by CALNNC
@Rod Stewart posted:

Tom, the gerber zip files can only be read by pcb manufacturing software, as used by the board houses. I posted them for those who would want to order their own boards from the likes of OSHPark in Oregon, or any of the many Asian shops.

I have not tested the boards in tandem with the DZ-1002 remotes, but they should work fine wired in parallel with them as well as the momentary toggle switches. You will need a 3 wire run from each switch back to the toggle/indicator board mounted at your panel. Then you will also need a 3 wire run from each facia mounted DZ-1002, either to the switch, or back to the panel, whichever is shorter.

The power is only a few milliamps for each, so the wiring can be light; #26 should be adequate. My thinking is that with 37 switches you are going to have a huge mess of wires running here and there to get it all hooked up. You may want to consider using something like Cat 5, 8-conductor internet wiring, at least for the long runs, just to minimize the chaos a little. Or there is #28 multi-color ribbon cable which is sold by the meter with up to 40 wires. So you can just tear off 3, 6, 9 etc. wires at a time for each run as needed.

You will also probably want multi-gang terminal blocks at your panel, maybe something like small euro terminals, which handle smaller wires nicely. They come in 12-gang blocks so one block will work for 4 switches. And they are easily cut with a knife to give you whatever number you need.

Some thoughts for you to process!



Rod, the fascia to switch runs would be shorter. I purchased and was going to use #22ga wire in a selection of colors for all my switch wiring. (once i get below #22ga i have a hard time stripping the wire without cutting thru a lot of strands. i have a klein that goes to #32ga).    I have a lot of multiposition barrier strips: 4's, 6's, 8's, 10's, 12's and 16's - the ones w the removable plastic covers.  I also have wago's 2's, 3's and 5's & 6's.  I'll look into the cat 5 - 8 conductor.  I'm prob gonna purchase a Z-1000 for all my switch power. (I understand i'll have to phase them). I'm going to sketch up a little wiring diag and run it past you guys.  In some areas (difficult access after scenery installed) i'm going to use round 6 pin connectors (from a diff post here) to make it easier to change the DZ1000's without having to go under the layout.

Thank you for your help and how to do the wiring runs. 

Tom

@CALNNC posted:

Not to be picky, but rocker switches technically don't 'toggle', they rock one way or the other.  Toggles have a bat handle, rockers a plastic lever you push on either top/bottom or right/left depending on orientation.  They come in all contact configurations, but it sounds like you need a spring loaded center off toggle, or a pair of momentary push buttons.  I have found a rocker switch to fail at higher rates than others, many times breaking at the pivot rod. While I do buy stuff from the electronic parts houses, I have found Amazon to offer a good selection and the shipping is much cheaper than the parts houses that seem fixated at $9.50 USPS shipping, plus Amazon gets them on the way to you more quickly.

Cal, thanks for the reply.  I understand the toggle / rocker diff.  As u bring up, i was wondering if there might be a higher failure rate for toggles due to spring / rod fatigue.  I'm moving away from the rocker choice for this application. And easier to drill a bunch of bezel holes instead of cutting rectangles out.  I usually use Amazon.

Tom

Sounds like you are on a roll Tom.

The 22 AWG would be good from the switches back to your panel IMO. Cat 5 #26 cable is solid conductor so its quite easy to work with. It comes in 4 sets of twisted wire pairs, all color coded. So it might help to keep your connections straight. The nice part about it and ribbon cable is you don't have to fuss with keeping 3 separate wires together and yet separated from all the others.

Rod

Last edited by Rod Stewart
@TomSuperO posted:

  As u bring up, i was wondering if there might be a higher failure rate for toggles due to spring / rod fatigue.

Toggles switches do break, but very seldom at the bat or the centering spring, but internally.  Inside is what amounts to a rocker switch, a small plastic block with contact that teeters on a central point, and when you move the bat you cause it to tip over and make contact.  That is why most toggle switches make up the contact in the opposite direction of the bat position.  Very seldom do you find a toggle today that makes up in the same direction as the bat handle, but a few years ago, they were quite common.  For turnouts, I always found it easiest to use momentary pushbuttons, one for the main, one for the divergent route, that you can mount right on control panel track diagram.  If it fails, you only have 2 wire to redo. I don't have a complicated layout, but some of those really involved ones, a track diagram control panel might take up too much space, would like to maybe find that out one day with a room size empire.

Tom, I just thought of another wiring option you may want to consider. It's probably the easiest of all to use. 4-conductor phone wire is sold by the foot at places like Home Depot and Lowes. It is #22, solid core and the 4 wires are conveniently color coded red-white-black-yellow, all in one plastic outer sheath about 1/8" diameter. I have used it extensively for signals on my layout with good success. Just a thought.

Rod

@TomSuperO posted:

Thanks Rod. As soon as i get over this cold i'll check out both the phone and cat 5 cable. Question, would these work for my control panel switches and also for my yard (blocks) to turn power on & off to yard tracks.

They are: momentary, SPDT, Toggle, AC 250V/2A  120V 5A  3 position on-off- on









s-l1600

In my opinion these momentary switches would not be a good option for yard power, unless you want to hold them in an on position to keep power supplied to the yard tracks for the duration of the move.

I would instead suggest latching (non-momentary) SPST switches.  These will stay on until you turn them off.

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