Need to see if its worth going to Homosote board

Rob,

I’m nowhere near Winston Salem but I can tell you that Homosote will definitely cut the noise way down. You mentioned having it cut. It has been my experience that most home centers refuse to cut it because it creates a LOT of dust. If you cut it yourself, have someone with a shop-vac sucking up the dust as you cut. Good luck.

Doug

Though it is a good idea to see another modelers layout using Homosote, I believe it is a given fact that Homosote deadens sound. Another thing is to use a thicker base board and I would recommend 5/8" plywood. Less chance of warping in the long run and just a better wood to use IMHO. If you are going to start over, then best do it right. Others might have additional ideas and tips, all of which come from experience of use and operation. Take all ideas under consideration.

I hope you find someone close using Homosote so you can witness the difference in sound deadening.

TEX
Steve

Do most people use Homasote instead of plywood, or use it over plywood?

Paul

Used over plywood.

Where to buy............

http://www.homasote.com/WhereToBuy/Default.aspx

This is on 1/2 plywood and 1/2 homosote.

Art


http://youtu.be/XEeqRY-spzQ

Art, thanks for the video. Still hard to tell from here how loud that would be. I run the heavy old post war trains mostly. I need to cut the noise back.I would have someone custom cut it for me either at their shop, or outside. I don't have any saws nor the back to lift and carry the homosote.
Rob

I have learned 3 lessons from this board concerning homosote:
#1 It is probably the best noise reducer available.
#2 Only use what you need under your track.
#3 Cut it outside.

Due to the mess with Homosote, not to mention its propensity to absorb moisture, I built my layout using 3/4 inch thick plywood, with VinylBed road bed from Hobby Innovations (their product is now called FlexxBed, but is still vinyl). My fellow modelers say that I have one of the most sound deadened layouts they have ever operated on.

The vinyl road bed is VERY easy to work with, nice and flexable, and simply glues in place. The trains make all the noise, but there is absolutely NO drumming into or thru the thick plywood. Plus, the layout is extremely strong, so that 4 or 5 adults can get up on top of it while doing scenery.

I have seen that black sound board in Home Depot and wondered how it would work. Thanks for the heads up.
Rob

The one thing you don't want to do is use to long of screws in your track that they go through and hit the plywood becase that is just like a record needel, i use gardgrave 3/4" screws in my gardgrave track .

Guy

Another Vote for the Sound Board sometimes Called Sound Stop, For the same reasons.
Again, only under the track.

I too have no significant power tools. I use a razor knife, retractable.
You can cut homosote or Sound Stop with a razor knife. Just make multiple passes on the line and it will work through. If you work a V into it you automatically get tapered sides for the ballast.
Keep a leather strap handy to sharpen the blade back up on or you will go through a ton of blades. Just rub the blade going away from the cutting edge on the rough side of the leather. Go back and forth flipping the blade over, a few strokes each way and the blade is like new.

Rob - I am a little farther than 100 miles from Winston. If you are in Wilmington, I would be happy to let you hear my layout.

Homasote was not available in my area.

I have Atlas solid rail track

I started with 3/4" MDF (denser than plywood - shoulda used 1/2" but got a good price), glued 1/2" foam on top and glued 1/2" Asphalt Impregnated Sheathing (AIS) from Lowes on top of that. The sheathing is probably similar in density and texture to ceiling tiles which I think would work too - the sheathing was CHEAP). On top of all this I glued a layer of Match-Play carpet from Home Depot (MUCH thicker rubber backing than regular indoor outdoor).

I think combining different densities of materials is important. This helps stop sound transmittal. Underneath of the table are bookshelves and file cabinets so +95% of the open area around the outer edges of the table is taken up. The floor is carpeted and it is inside a drywalled house and that helps as well. Aluminum table legs have plastic adjustable bottom pieces further isolating from the floor.

I have no screws or nails penetrating through any combination of layers (except carpet and AIS). Track held down with small ridged trim nails pushed in with pliers through the carpet and AIS.

This setup for a highrail layout and does not offer the flexibility of foam sculpting, etc. for scenery. Maybe if I went with no carpet and 2" foam like many do I would have that option but I do not think that 2" of foam is a whole lot quieter than 1/2" foam just due to difference in thickness - it is the combination of materials that does that.

Like everyone says of homosote and sound board - the AIS was dusty to cut!

BUT - the end result is FANTASTIC! It is quiet enough I can tell when the rods on the steamers need lubrication! I am really happy with the way it all turned out (with the exception of the weight of the table!)

I use the 440 type of Homosote as it's "moisture resistant", over plywood. Very nice.
Dusty as heck to cut with a power saw. Do it in the garage, not the trainroom ...

Cutting the sound board to fit ONLY under the rails is impractical for me. How about using it in 2x4 sheets the size of my modules? I use Lionel O guage tin plate track, I know that is where some of the racket is being made up. But the noise has to go.
Rob

Use it over the entire module not just under the track. It helps to deaden the reflected sound as well.

Also, avoid tubular track. BTW, nothing quieter than two rail trains.

quote:

I would have someone custom cut it for me either at their shop, or outside. I don't have any saws nor the back to lift and carry the homosote.

Just tell me where to send it.

I don't use sound deadening material. I have 5/8 plywood, and two layers of indoor/outdoor carpeting. One thing I can say for sure, is that the way the track is mounted has a lot to do with the sound. There are sections of my pike where you can only hear the wheel noise, and that is going to happen whatever you use. I found out by trial and error that if you back off the screws so that the vibration does not transmit from the track to the board, it is much quieter. I too run mostly Postwar Steam, and GG1's. The only place I get a racket is going over the 022 switches.

Metal wheels on metal track are noisy, whether it is real or toy trains.

It may be worth a try to unscrew the fasteners so that the head is above the tie, be careful to leave clearance above.

I've heard that folks could use small black wire ties in place of screws. Just shove them down all the way through the track and the board and use another tie to secure them underneath. Vibrationlessness.

I have used as few screws as possible and there is clearance under all the screw heads. I may try the tie wraps before getting serious about sound board. The lay out is in a closed 14x10 room and the modules go all around the walls with duck under. I do have one layer of indoor/outdoor rubber backed carpet.
Rob

Oldrob,

When I remodeled the scenery on my layout I had to take up my track to paint walls. I used that opportunity to lay down "Black Jack" floating floor under layment. It was easy to work with (cuts with a xacto knife) and inexpensive ($40 a roll). Before the Black Jack the Realtrax was just sitting on grass paper. It was pretty noisy especially with Premier steamers. Now there is half the track noise and I think trains run smoother. As a bonus, its black and looks like asphalt. I plan to add grass, dirt, ballast in areas that are not roads, parking lots. Check out my Youtube showing the Black Jack installation @ 0:24.

This is a repost of a video I put on the scenery forum

But how do you hold your track in place? Thats one of the reasons I wanted sound board. I screw my track down.
Rob

quote:

Originally posted by oldrob:
But how do you hold your track in place? Thats one of the reasons I wanted sound board. I screw my track down.
Rob

Use "Titebond" brand Professional Wood Glue. I used the Titebond glue for my whole layout, legs of 1" X 4" glued together, L girders of 1" X 4" with a 1" X 2" glued on top, VinylBed glued to the 3/4" plywood top, and finally Atlas O solid nickel silver track & switches all glued to the top of the VinylBed. If screws where needed to hold the Atlas O flex track in place, I removed the screws after the glue was dry. Absolutely NO SCREWS remain in the track!

Hi Rob,
Here is an early photo when we were starting out. Used 5/8 plywood topped with 1" foam (for sculpting) and some FREE sponge-foam carpet backing available from any carpet installer on top. Then we laid cork roadbed and used spots of hot glue to hold everything together.
Result is quite quiet and if doing over again I would substitute the rubber mats cut instead of the cork for economy.


As seen in the foreground, we initially had the carpet foam underneath the sheets of 1" blue foam but found the the sheet foam actually amplified some noise! Not-so the carper backing...

I agree with C.Sam

I'm using soft foam carpet padding.

The difference in sound reduction is shocking. I initially thought I would put Atlas track on flex-foam roadbed on top of the carpet padding. Turned out the Flex-foam roadbed was much louder than putting the track directly on the carpet padding.

For the new layout I'm putting Homasote on top of plywood surface to reduce vibration and reflected sound then cutting the carpet foam padding to roadbed under the tracks. I'm up in the air if I want to use hard balast or something like granulated cork to keep the noise from creeping back up.

I just removed all the screws from my outside line and installed the tie wraps. It does make a noticeable difference, but I still hear the train noise drumming in the modules. The track is on 1/8 thickness rubber backed industrial carpet. That helps Im sure. I am running Williams F3's and passenger cars on that line and Williams are generally quieter than anything else. I intend to do the other 2 lines where I run mainly post war steamers. Maybe this spring I will install the sound board.
Rob

I screwed up here. I have Fastrack directly mounted on OSB. The noise is LOUD. When I move or expand I will incorporate some of these ideas.

i used 1/2 plywood under the homo -helps to support it. also i framed the tables out of 2x4s with lots of bracing under the plywood, the 2x4s seem to absorb the train noise better-jim