New LED passenger car lighting kits

John, I am going to try your parts, but with a voltage doubler so that I will have full illumination at slow speed in conventional. Using a bridge rectifier, that only takes one additional capacitor.

The actual peak voltage in TMCC Conventional may have a higher peak voltage due to the sharkfin waveform. I will look at that, but I don't always run with TMCC. (I actually have bypass switches on my Powermasters and TPC so that I can totally ignore them.)

I am also using the CL2N3 constant current regulators. I have found that a single 20mA regulator is sufficient to drive even six segments of the super-bright Mouser strips (18 LEDs) with acceptable brightness. I didn't remove the resistors.

I think the voltage for six segments was about 9V, so you could probably use a LDO 9V regulator if you wanted to squeeze a few more volts.

They drive mine nice, I just removed the resistors to gain the 2.6 volt lower threshold voltage for max illumination.

I like the voltage doubler idea, I may have to try that in the future. As Dale says, just one more cap.

I'm going to dig out my DCS remote Commander and hook up all six cars to the PC2 locomotive and see if the caps without the chokes cause a problem for the operation.

FWIW, I found the LED strips on eBay for a really good price, $15.55 for a 5 meter spool that has 300 LED's. They are designed to cut into 3 LED units if desired.

5M 500CM Warm White 3528 SMD LED Strip Lights 300 leds

With the obvious benefits LEDs now give us in the way of reduced power usage, heat, life span, and cost, what can be done to get ALL the manufacturers to convert? The good thing about converting is there's no problem using older, bulb equipped cars with new LED equipped cars, other than how they look.

I need to install LEDs in my small fleet of passenger cars. When I do I'm adding a miniature On/Off switch so I can turn off the car lights when I want.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:
When I do I'm adding a miniature On/Off switch so I can turn off the car lights when I want.

Go all the way, power them with a TMCC accessory controller so you can control the lights remotely.

I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread for all the work they did and sharing it. I want to change my passenger cars to LED lighting also, so this came in handy.

I looked at the LED strip that ‘gunrunnerjohn’ found (Sep 01 post) but since I don’t use paypal (ebay), I looked elsewhere and found this strip for ($8 + $5.49 S&H =) $13.49 from one of the Amazon vendors.

The strip consists of 300 LED’s Warm White that can be cut every three LED’s.

300-LED Strip

Thanks to all!



Alex

Great price, and it looks exactly like the reel of them that I got off eBay.

I used the first of that roll I bought on a Williams PARR passenger set, two cars down, and two to go. I may actually have to tone down the dome lights, there are only three in there, but they're pretty bright! There are 21 LED's in the car, and they're running on 20ma total, plenty bright for me. I was going to parallel another CL2 for 40ma, but that was too bright when I tested it.

I'm going to add people to my un-populated MTH NP Mainstreeter set and it sounds like it might be time to convert it to lights like these as the cars will be apart.
Will these new strip lights work in all the cars, domes, baggage, diner ... the works?
This will be my first attempt to do anything like this project. I hear the cars are not all that easy to take apart so I'm wondering how difficult it would be to install these, the little people, and get it all back together looking as good as your GN set.
I don't know anything about currents below 18v AC ... :-)
Advice?

grJohn,

That looks great! I am glad you posted those pictures - now I know how to do it the 'proven' way.

Thanks!

Alex

Just picked up my "6-pack" of K-Line 21" passenger set (K-4670L) of New York State Express passenger cars from Jack at the York fair, where he also added lighted candles to all the tables. Prior to the replacement, my 3rd Rail Empire State Express engine had a hard time reaching 5 scale miles per hour. With the change over, the engine pulls like it has nothing "in tow'! This has to be the best product since sliced bread!

WARNING:
Be careful before you put LEDS in layout building and cars. Their use, acording to an ABC news story is that bluish LEDS might disrupt your sleep, so you end up playing with trains too much.!!

LEDS disrupt sleep

quote:

it takes about 3 to 5 minutes befor the lights come on, after track power is supplied.

Huh? Boy I sure hope that's a misprint. You have to wait 3 to 5 minutes before the lights come on? Or did you mean to say 3 to 5 seconds?

A HUGE thank you to everyone who's posted here. This is one of those "keeper" topics.



John

quote:

Originally posted by Kerrigan:
I'm going to add people to my un-populated MTH NP Mainstreeter set and it sounds like it might be time to convert it to lights like these as the cars will be apart.
Will these new strip lights work in all the cars, domes, baggage, diner ... the works?
This will be my first attempt to do anything like this project. I hear the cars are not all that easy to take apart so I'm wondering how difficult it would be to install these, the little people, and get it all back together looking as good as your GN set.
I don't know anything about currents below 18v AC ... :-)
Advice?

The light strips will work anywhere you need light. They cut in sections of three bulbs, see the observation dome I posted, that's the smallest piece. You can leave as many as you need in a strip, just add more current. They're designed for 12VDC full brightness, but I don't run them near that, because they are like an airport beacon at that current! That car is lit with 20MA total current to all the lamps. I could add another CL2 to double that, but it got too bright for my tastes, so I run with one.

Plain passenger cars just have a single strip of lights all the way down the center, they're pretty easy to do. I'm using a full wave bridge rectifier, a 47uF cap, and a CL2 constant current source to supply power from the rails to the LED's. If you run conventional and not command, you may want to consider a voltage doubler to use the strips, which is just a couple of diodes and a couple of capacitors to replace the bridge and cap.

I do all the wiring with #30 wire-wrap wire, it's plenty big for the currents involved, and it's practically invisible in the installation.

quote:

Originally posted by rrman:
WARNING:
Be careful before you put LEDS in layout building and cars. Their use, acording to an ABC news story is that bluish LEDS might disrupt your sleep, so you end up playing with trains too much.!!

LEDS disrupt sleep

The warm white LEDs are not bluish like the first generation ones. Light spectrum is similar to but not exactly like light bulbs.

Dale H

quote:

Originally posted by Dale H:

quote:

Originally posted by rrman:
WARNING:
Be careful before you put LEDS in layout building and cars. Their use, acording to an ABC news story is that bluish LEDS might disrupt your sleep, so you end up playing with trains too much.!!

LEDS disrupt sleep

The warm white LEDs are not bluish like the first generation ones. Light spectrum is similar to but not exactly like light bulbs.

Dale H

Yep Dale, know the difference. Still too bad all LEDs were not culprits, that way you could explain lack of sleep and excessive train time as fault of those darn passenger car LEDs disrupting you cicadian rythms.

quote:

Originally posted by Dale H:
For AC input a bridge rectifier would be needed. For input exceeding 14 volts an additional resistor or CL2 N# chip would be needed.

Dale H

What is the vendor part number for this CL2 device I keep reading about?

Here you go. I've just tried the 20MA one, when I ordered them the 25MA one was out of stock.

This is the 20MA model: CL2N3-G

This is the 25MA model: CL25N3-G

quote:

Originally posted by gunrunnerjohn:
Here you go. I've just tried the 20MA one, when I ordered them the 25MA one was out of stock.

Thanks, I kept seeing these in postings and hoping the part number would appear, but now I know.

quote:

gunrunnerjohn

@gunrunnerjohn

This has been the perfect thread for what I've been wanted to do with my MTH passenger cars... your lightstrips were exactly what I had been thinking. I'm a bit new at wiring LEDs but everything is starting to make sense as far as bridge rectifiers, resisters, etc. I'm understanding how these components play into taking 18v AC to 12v DC, but it would be awesome to have some pictorial references on the wiring end of things. Is there any way you could show how you have your components (LED driver, CL2 etc)wired in? Did you pull from the original wires from the pickup rollers and wheels?

Thanks so much!

Chris

Is 47 uF enough to keep the lights flicker-free?

John,
I run conventional, TMCC, and DCS. If I use the circuit just posted to drive the LED strip, do I need to put a choke in between the pickup rollers and the bridge rectifier?

Chris
LVHR

quote:

Originally posted by lehighline:
John,
I run conventional, TMCC, and DCS. If I use the circuit just posted to drive the LED strip, do I need to put a choke in between the pickup rollers and the bridge rectifier?

Chris
LVHR

Only if you use a capacitor.

Dale H

Thanks so much for the diagram, John... there are several variations of the DF005 rectifier (all with slight differences), which model did you use? Also, concerning a previous reply and Dale's response, are you running conventional or DCS/TMCC? Is it a good idea to wire in a choke as a precaution even if it's not necessary? And Dale, if a choke is needed in this case, what kind/type should I get?

Thank you guys for helping an LED newbie out I can't wait to get started converting my passenger cars over once I get all this figured out

Chris

I use these

http://www.mouser.com/ProductD...PHl1FCPZucit6Q%3d%3d

Pictured used in a circuit here

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/Bl...d=487&categoryId=426

Dale H

I use this bridge, DF005M. I haven't had any issues without the choke with TMCC, but it's probably a very good idea to include it if you run DCS for sure. I may start putting them in my conversions as well.

John and Dale, thanks for all the advice and input! I can't wait to get started on the LED conversions of my passenger cars.


Chris

John, the wiring you show will run how many LEDs? Running DCS or TMCC at 18 volts will be ok with this. I think you have done a great job showing your applications.

Well, it'll run pretty much all the LED's you want to stuff into the car. The only thing that might have to change is connecting a second CL2 in parallel with the first one if you want a little more brightness and you have a ton of LED's. If you have some of the 18" or larger cars, you may a little "kick" in the current to the string. You can parallel as many CL2's as you like to increase the current in the strings by 20/25MA for each CL2.

The primary purpose of my mod is for TMCC, though it works for conventional, it'll run fine on any voltage your transformer can put out. If you run conventional, it helps to jumper out the little resistors on the strings to lower the voltage required for each 3 LED group a couple of volts, helps the lights function brighter at lower voltages.

Thank you very much for the outline. I just purchased the roll of LED's. I will try these first in my Northern Pacific set.

The hardest part is sometimes getting the cars apart! For plain passenger cars, it's usually a quick process, stick the strips up on the top, connect the three components to the LED's and the pickups, and away you go. I recommend what Dale suggested, putting the resettable fuse between the rollers to protect the interior wiring from shorts during a derailment.

It got more involved for the dome car and the observation car I did, there was more wiring and fooling around. It all turned out fine.

Hi John.. forgot to ask one thing concerning specific components... in selecting the correct capacitor will this one be ok:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductD...QYg7jGp9ruFqvI2WU%3d

Just want to make sure I get the right stuff.

Thanks again!


Chris

Chris,they are OK. I always use the largest capacitor that will fit up to 1000 uf 35 volt. That usually eliminates all flicker even with dirty track.

Dale H

I used 47uF in these, if you hit a real dirty patch of track they will flicker. As dale says, bigger capacitors will give you more flicker resistance. They'll also raise the cost.

Has anyone done this lighting upgrade to the MTH passenger trains with the cars such as the type in the MTH Mainstreeter set? I was wondering how difficult it is to disassemble these types of cars.

quote:

Originally posted by gunrunnerjohn:
The hardest part is sometimes getting the cars apart! For plain passenger cars, it's usually a quick process, stick the strips up on the top, connect the three components to the LED's and the pickups, and away you go. I recommend what Dale suggested, putting the resettable fuse between the rollers to protect the interior wiring from shorts during a derailment.

It got more involved for the dome car and the observation car I did, there was more wiring and fooling around. It all turned out fine.

Dale and John, can't thank you enough... you guys have been most helpful! I'll let you know how the conversion goes

Thanks again!


Chris

We look forward to a progress report Chris.


Kerrigan, I haven't seen those, so I can't comment on taking them apart.

Great reply Dale, and plenty of detail. Pictures would be great, super!

The lighting current prior to modification was 2.9 amps at 17 volts for 4 illuminated cars with 4 bulbs each. After the modification, the draw is .08 amps. That's a 36:1 improvement!

Dale,
Many thanks for your step by step.
I don't know a 470 uF 50V electrolytic capacitor from a flux capacitor, but at least I know you used one.

I will e-mail you and say hello.

Eliot